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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/18/2009 9:35:11 PM   
angelikaJ


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My question for the OP: are they follwing up on the shadows in your lungs...did they determine the cause of that?

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/18/2009 9:55:17 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Care to explain this a little more?
quote:

Your answer leads me to believe that you are either in the health industry or the insurance industry both being a play on words.



If his experience with HMOs and insurance companies is anything like mine has been for the past several years (through the late stages of mom's illness and death, and concerning dad's stuff since the stroke) - then the assumption is relatively easy to make.
 
It's been my experience over the past several years that the doctors who worked for an HMO were keen to order up test after test after test because that was the only way they could make what They thought they were worth.  The base rate paid by the HMO appearantly didn't match the grandiose figure they expected to be making when they went into medicine, so tacking on a bunch of extra tests would bring that figure closer to what they expected. 
 
As for insurance companies - eh - even though dad worked for one (which did Not do medical insurance - only things like Homeowners and Vehical) -  I have a particularly LOW opinion of that sort of business.  My opinion of medical insurance companies is low enough that any time I hear someone defending them - my first thought is that they must work for one.  Mom had a particularly aggressive specialist physician for the first several years after she was diagnosed with Lupus.  He was aggressive for a Reason - he has lupus himself, and was both a specialist in the field of rhumatology and clinical researcher in autoimmune diseases.   He put mom on a regimine that was Working, and had her on the brink of her Lupus symptoms (which had been particularly severe when she started seeing him) to the point of being ready to go into remission after 5 years of various forms of therapy and medication combinations.  (They tried various until they found a combination that was very effective For Her - although none of the medications in use were specifically designed to combat Lupus.  They were, however, medications that he'd spent significant time studying as a researcher and rhumy, and which he'd found effective for various other patients.)  Then the insurance company decided that he was "to aggressive" and that his treatment methods were "to experimental" and "unproven for efficancy in the course of the specified disease."  What did that mean?  That they were suddenly no longer willing to pay for treatments - or that particular Specialist as a physician.  So mom had to switch doctors right as she was reaching a turning point in the progress of the lupus, and come off the effective treatement she'd been getting.  While the new physician was good, and was a collegue of the original specialist in the field of rhumatology - he was no where near as aggressive in treatment methods, no where near as motivated towards doing more than maintaining the status quo and treating symptoms when they sprung up during flares.  Unfortunately, without the aggressive treatment - her symptoms returned in short order, and started a (to me) rapid downward spiral.  She was dead 3 years later at the age of 55, due to complications of the Lupus which, prior to changing physicians, was on the brink of being under control and in remission, with a life expectancy into her 70s or 80s.  While the fungal pnumonia that's on the death certificate might be the Official cause of death, and the Direct cause of death - I will always hold the beancounting pricks at the insurance company partially to blame on an Ethical and Moral level - because it was their moronic Medical decision when they weren't doctors that allowed the disease process to remain out of control.  I won't even go into the run around and bullshit the insurance company put me through, as dad's PoA, after he had his stroke and before they finally managed to find a loophole that allowed them to cancel his insurance.  I won't bother going into it because even now, 2 years and psych therapy later, even thinking about that steaming pile of manure tends to send me into a screaming rage with a desire to go Postal in their office.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 6:31:50 AM   
Termyn8or


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Many things said, but the fact still remains. If the OP's accounts of that day are accurate they acted unprofessionally. Also, it seems illogical even to a dolt like me to give drugs to a patient during the diagnostic phase. Get them so high and ask them where it hurts and you might get "it don't hurt noplace, gimme another shot of that stuff".

T

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 6:38:41 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I am also a disbeliever of this story. If the tumor was that large, why did you take so long to have it looked at? Go to a specialiast, not ER at the last moment. These things don't grow overnight..

i am thinking if the pressure was severe enough to break the bone, the tumor would have been noted by the OP. Also, the pressure on the nerves would have made it very painful.
I want to call bullshit here. Way too much demerol


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 8:11:30 AM   
beargonewild


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Having spent many hours in emerg waiting to see a doctor for legit ailments, I know that no doctor or nurse will administer pain meds until after diagnosis is made to the patient's condition. Especially before they talk tot he patient and inform them of what's happening and the course of treatment being used. It is standard policy to gain permission of the patient first and if that isn't possible, they talk to the person who has legal authority to make medical decisions ie, family member. 

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 12:29:48 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Many things said, but the fact still remains. If the OP's accounts of that day are accurate they acted unprofessionally. Also, it seems illogical even to a dolt like me to give drugs to a patient during the diagnostic phase. Get them so high and ask them where it hurts and you might get "it don't hurt noplace, gimme another shot of that stuff".

T


my experience is that they are pretty stingy with opiod based RXs in the ER.  I overheard the DR bitching about me in there one time. something like "get out of my emergency room".   the DR says go to ER, the ER says go to your DR. ...being that it is pointless- I go to the chiropractor...at least he knows what he is doing.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 2:59:44 PM   
XNakisisaX


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I think they all watch "House" a bit too much.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 3:30:37 PM   
Lynnxz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: XNakisisaX

I think they all watch "House" a bit too much.


IT'S NOT LUPUS!!


And yes PH, emergency room doctors will gripe about people trying to freeload narcodics. I'm wondering if they are allowed to kick your ass out for stupid stuff like that.... I would.


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 4:03:35 PM   
maybemaybenot


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A question for the OP : If you felt so strongly that you needed a biopsy to confirm the cancer diagnosis, why do you not feel equally as strong you need one to rule out a cancerous tumor ? What if the Ortho MD is a * retard* too ?

I think this story is alot of hooey. However, I will address one question you have about the * retards* who cared for you in the ER.

snip:
If I had allowed the fools to run all those tests based on a benign tumor I would be broke for a long time.  Why not biopsy the tumor before ordering all the tests?

First of all Bone cancers travel < metastisizes > to lung. Therefore it is..... routine.... prudent.... good medicine.... to do a chest X-ray anytime bone cancer is suspected or diagnosed. IF the cancer has already spread to the lungs, the tests and procedures differ from tests for bone cancer that is contained. As, of course, are the treatment options.

CT Scans are helpful in staging of bone tumors. It is also useful in seeing if the cancer is contained or has spread to organs or is in the lymph nodes. Again, in the case of metastatic cancer the treatment would be different than in contained tumors

Bone Scans: will show how much damage the primary cancer has done to the bone.

PET Scans and MRI's are also often used.  Again to determine the extent of the disease.

A biopsy only tells the cell type of cancer, not the extent and metastisis of the tumor. Doesn't it seem reasonable the * retards* would like to know the extent of your cancer ? So they can offer you the best options ?

Ohh and another itsy bitsy tiny little thing. Bone cancer/tunors are often NOT the primary cancer site. One could have cancer elsewhere that has spread and a bone biopsy  with treatment based on that test alone could leave a primary cancer undiagnosed, untreated and you whining that you were  misdiagnosed by the * retards*.

A personal note:
10 years ago, I was diagnosed with metastatic uterine cancer, given less than a 30% chance of surviving 1 year. That was based on a CT Scan. They shipped me off to an gyn. oncologist the next week, who had me booked for surgery in two days. And all set up for a chemo consult after the biopsy and  surgerical removal of my reproductive organs were complete. The day before surgery I got a call from the oncologist, asking me where I had my ultrasound and CEA-25 done because she did not have those test results. I told her I never had either. Guess what ?  She did those two tests and I did not have cancer at all. I had a uterine fibroid tumor. Not treatment needed. The first MD jumped the gun, by not doing the correct tests BEFORE cutting me open to biopsy me.

                      mbmbn


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 4:06:52 PM   
windchymes


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Great story, mbmbn.  One to really read and take heed.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 5:01:27 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

um...the docs that train in ERs always have another experienced and veteran doctor to watch over them. I had a huge laceration in my arm a few years ago, and the resident took one look and got her attending. Most docs that are full trauma docs and spend all their time in the ER are jack of all trades, but very very damn good at what they do. Plus I'd rather have tests done to make sure than not know or have my moron GP (and he is a moron) look at something and say uh huh..interesting. heres some pills. 



that sounds like a physician assistant. 

in light of ERs closing down- and hospitals deleting the ER part- it is what it is what it is.  maybe some hospitals have state of the art everything- the one I go to doesn't.  but then it isnt a trauma hospital.    I go there because the wait at the other hospital is 4-5 maybe even 6 hours wait.




I would have bled to death if I had waited that long...and the first person who looked was a Doc, not a PA. It was a holy shit moment for the poor kid, muscle separating from the bone...good thing I was dripping gallons of blood when I walked in. the old lady with corns was very displeased.


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 5:44:27 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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ER doctors are some of the most overworked people, for nominal pay.

These folks deal with people with bones sticking out of their pants, #12 rebar sticking out of their eyeballs, as well as drug fiend fuck brains who have every known script (not "scrip") planned out...and these fuckers will actually stand in front of a moving fucking train (and actually take a damned impact by a 137,000 pound vehicle) just to prove they need Vicodins.

Do I think ER doctors are retarded?

No.

Occasional poorly thought out CM posts....sure....without question.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/19/2009 5:45:11 PM >

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 6:15:29 PM   
colouredin


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Ok so we have ruled out the OP but I have had a few really strange experiances with A&E Staff. When i fell through a window and cut my arm it needed an op to stich the nerve back together, giant gash right but above they wrote an arrow to make sure they operated on the right arm (yeah as if I wasnt already in shock) and then when I had it re-casted I had to argue with the Dr for about ten mins that they had done it the wrong way (basically straining the nerve so it could snap again rather than having it in a realxing position)

But i am totally agreeing that the staff in emergancy units are so bloody busy and work such long shifts its no wonder they overlook some things.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 8:45:59 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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All these stories serve to underline one basic issue-

You know what they call the guy who finishes last in his class at med school?

Doctor

A good doctor is like a good mechanic- a resource to be treasured, and to most of us, somewhere between an icon of a bygone era and a mythological figure. In reality, unless you can do your own work you just have to take what you can get, and hope you still have some asshole left after they finish fucking you.


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 11:33:17 PM   
Irishknight


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Three and a half years ago, a doctor told me that I "probably" had lung cancer.  I think he meant to say "possibly" but he scared the living shit out of me and my family.  Since we took my treatment from him to the VA in Iowa City, the tests took a little over a month to come back.  I was not angry at the first doctor, just relieved.  He wasn't a retard, just a guy with a medical license, a degree, and a slip of the tongue.
What I did find amazing was that every test that was performed on me by the staff of the University Hospital (which shares many resources with the VA right next door) ended up having to be redone by the VA staff because they were in some way faulty.  When they finished giving me my second bronchoscopy, I was getting a bit pissed.
Just as in any profession, there are good doctors and bad.  Many elements of the OP's story sound a bit like a drug induced dream. 

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/19/2009 11:41:49 PM   
gman992


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I've had no problems with my HMO.  In fact, I wish I was still with them. I went from paying $5 per medicine with my HMO to $20 per medicine when they--my employers--switched to hospital based insurance. Doctors would rather be paranoid and order tests, then not to, and then have some ambulance-chasing attorney (and the patient's family) sue them.

Actually, the last guy to finish medical school is called a dentist. And ER docs are no way just going to give patients meds who need a fix...and it's not like anyone has ever "faked" it before to get some meds. To quote, Dr Reed from "Scrubs," to a patient, "I can't give you vicodin just because you took a taxi here." And the ERs are not closing down because they are not treating people, they are closing down because everybody in the world shows up to the ER because they hurt their ankle.

< Message edited by gman992 -- 1/19/2009 11:48:41 PM >

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/20/2009 5:53:45 AM   
TNstepsout


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I don't know about ER's in particular but I've had some horrible experiences with doctors. Maybe I just have bad luck, but honestly I've encountered more crummy doctors than good ones.

1-I was 20 years old, newly married and thought I was pregnant but having some problems. I was having strange pains and some bleeding. I called the Dr's office and tried to get in but was told I couldn't until I'd missed two periods. I told the girl I'd had a pregnancy test (in the days before home tests I'd gone to a local clinic) and it was positive. She told me those can be wrong. I persisted, telling her I was having pain and bleeding and got an appointment for the following Thursday, a week away. Later that night as I was bringing in groceries I felt a gush of blood. Terrified I called the doctors office and left a frantic message. A little while later my doctors partner called (my doc was on vacation and he was filling in). I told him what was going on and he told me he thought it was just my period.  Now at 20, granted I am young, but I've been having periods since 13 and I know the difference. I argue with him. Finally he says "well what do you want me to do?" He agrees to meet me at the emergency room (obviously begrudging) and upon examination announces "It looks like it's just a period". I'm a little fiester these days than I was in those, but if someone did that to me I don't think he'd want my feet so close to his smarmy face!  Anyway turns out it wasn't a period, it was an ectopic pregnancy and I had to have a DNC and stay in the hospital overnight.  Dumbass!

2-I had cancer about 10 years ago and when it was first diagnosed I was of course terrified and shocked. I had gone to the doctor originally because of pain on my left lower abdomen and odd bouts of gushing blood (not during my periods). It turns out the gushing blood was caused by a large cyst on my ovary, but they discovered the cervical cancer when they examined me and of course that became the biggest problem. So I went to have a biopsy and during the biopsy I began bleeding and they had to do a hystorectomy. That's all fine, they explained that might happen. Afterward they told me the doc had left my right ovary so I would still have estrogen production, but everything else was removed. Fast forward, it's time to start radiation for cancer treatment. I'm at the hospital to undergo some of the first tests to begin the process and the doc says there is something blocking the view of the affected area and he thinks it's my ovary. I tell him it can't be, that one has been removed. He insists, and does a CTScan to find out more. Sure enough, it IS an ovary!  The dumb ass doc had removed my perfectly healthy RIGHT ovary and left the one with the huge cyst that was sitting a milimeter away from a cancerous tumor. I had to have a second surgery because they could not begin radiation with the ovary in the way.

These are the worst, although about 18 months after I finished cancer treatment I had to have a portion of my colon removed due to a blockage. It took doctors about 6 weeks just to diagnose the problem because. I kept being bounced around from ER to doctors being told it was just constipation.  The ER didn't do any tests! They poked my stomach, asked me some questions, gave me some prescriptions and sent me away! (the bill was $800)  I was terrified because my grandmother had died when I was ten from a burst colon. Doctors kept telling her it was constipation and to keep taking laxatives.

Most recently my doctor experiences have been much better, but I'm still so nervous about the kind of doc I might be getting I don't even go unless I have to. I was chastised recently in the ER for not having a regular phycisian, but you know, a good doctor is pretty hard to find.

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/20/2009 7:52:37 AM   
aravain


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~Fast Reply~

I think the main (generic) problem with doctors isn't that anyone who finishes med school is a doctor regardless of grades I think it's that doctors forget that *WE* (the patients) know our own bodies intrinsically better than they do. They don't live in our bodies, they don't feel what we feel. Sometimes I feel like they're taught in med school to disregard half of what the patient says as over-exaggerating. As someone who skips right to the point when I'm in the emergency room because I want the experience to be OVER, it's frustrating when you can clearly tell that they don't believe you on all points (or, even, when you can hear the supervising doctor tell the med student exactly which points were probably over-exaggerated and shouldn't be included on the chart. Funny that those were the *bigger* problems than what they DID include on the chart).

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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/20/2009 8:02:29 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

When i fell through a window and cut my arm it needed an op to stich the nerve back together, giant gash right but above they wrote an arrow to make sure they operated on the right arm

in the past 2 years i have had 4 surgeries on my hands/arm. Each time the surgeon initaled the limb in the pre-op room. It seems to be a standard procedure.
I did ask him, if he was going to operate on my back, would he initial my ass?


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RE: Are emergency room doctors retarded? - 1/20/2009 10:15:58 AM   
SilverWulf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

When i fell through a window and cut my arm it needed an op to stich the nerve back together, giant gash right but above they wrote an arrow to make sure they operated on the right arm

in the past 2 years i have had 4 surgeries on my hands/arm. Each time the surgeon initaled the limb in the pre-op room. It seems to be a standard procedure.
I did ask him, if he was going to operate on my back, would he initial my ass?



When I had knee surgery a few years ago surgeon came into the pre-op area and did the same thing, initialed the knee he was going to be operating on.  Then he uncovered the other leg and wrote NO several times all around the knee and leg. 

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