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RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 8:00:54 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

At least with me, if there isn't some obvious D/s element (even just an obvious "who's in charge" attitude in the connection), I've discovered that the D/s element rarely actually evolves further. This used to really bug me because people would suggest becoming friends first, and then I'd become friends, and then it would never turn into anything stronger than friendship, or a vanilla relationship. But whenever there was an obvious distinction as to who was the alpha in the relationship right from the start, the relationship has grown fruitful and worked.

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Post #: 21

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 8:06:29 AM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

i date men. Some of these men have been Dominant, some haven't(some have claimed to be yet weren't,

but i digress...) Until the point i choose to submit to someone in an understood D/s relationship, there is no relationship. Just two folks trying to get to know if they are compatible.

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Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 22

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 9:54:34 AM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

Each of my relationships has been different.

My firs D/s relationship it kinda just happened. Started out as play and deepened to a fuller D/s relationship after about a month.

My second D/s relationship basically we were Dom and sub with each othe immediately. We spent our first 12 hours together, in person, as just us, and after that He was always in charge even when he was out of town working. I accepted him as my Dom even before the first 12 hours were up.

The relationship I'm currently in, He wanted to get to know me more first so did not establish strict guidelines right away and we have found with my personallity type that was not the best thing to do. Because of me being in "nilla" relationships where I was forced to be in control, and having lived on my own and being the only one in control, I have a tendancy when faced with out direct guidelines to move in and take control. lol After a few false starts and fumbles we have found our feet and are now moving forward. Although we were having issues getting our feet under us, at no time did I not acknowledge him as my Dominant. I may not have been the best submissive during that time I completely admit.

Each relationship has a life of it's own. No two will start or carry through the same as any other. There is no "Step one is "this" for 6 weeks" Then step two is "that" for 3 weeks. Just not how people work.

Some click together faster then others, some need time to grow into their comfort levels. Each new person is a new variant and a new learning experience.

< Message edited by akisha -- 1/20/2009 9:57:31 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 11:24:25 AM

brownbutterfli

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline

Currently I am not in a relationship. But if I were in a relationship he would become my dominant and me his sub after we have spent some time in *getting to know each and to see if we are fit. If at that point if we both decide that we are on the same page then I would hope he would ask me if I want to be his submissive and vice versa.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 24

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 11:45:42 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

At least with me, if there isn't some obvious D/s element (even just an obvious "who's in charge" attitude in the connection), I've discovered that the D/s element rarely actually evolves further. This used to really bug me because people would suggest becoming friends first, and then I'd become friends, and then it would never turn into anything stronger than friendship, or a vanilla relationship. But whenever there was an obvious distinction as to who was the alpha in the relationship right from the start, the relationship has grown fruitful and worked.

I have to agree with littlesarbonn, here.

If we are in "friendship", non D/s mode for too long, often I have NO desire to "get" into D/s mode with that person.
I am not mechanical and I can't / don't WANT to have to turn on and off my desires.

What a wonderful topic and one that I can relate to, a lot.
I am the Dominant party, and I feel I should be the one to "decide"
when the D/s relationship "begins".
At the very least, this is a decision that should be made "together", so that both parties are on the same page.

I have had FAR too many submissive males and females that want to either
"jump" into a D/s relationship, without WANTING to take the time to get to know me,
AND I have had far too many submissive's that feel they will be the one to decide
at what point the D/s relationship "begins".

I don't engage in casual play or casual relationships, so PRIOR to any serious, intimate, physical D/s {play} dynamics begin, we will both ALREADY know we are in a "relationship".

Again, this is a topic dear to my heart, and I have had serious issues with this subject,
and far too many "submissives" that want to be the one to decide when the D/s relationship, will "begin".

I think many of us that are single or have been single for long periods of time, struggle with this "issue" whether we realize it or not.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/20/2009 12:09:01 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 25

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 1:30:00 PM

DrSysAdmin

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

It really depends on the people involved. I usually prefer to make it clear who I am - and watch as the Pet in question slowly grows closer to me. By making it known who I am, they have the opportunity without pressure to take the time to decide if I am what they need. If they choose no ultimately, then that is fine. Yet often a friendship develops and they are able to observe and learn about me. What I have found is that, by natural growth, they turn more and more toward my guidance - until they themselves come to first realize, and then accept - their place. Often I see it well before they ever do, and smile inwardly allowing that growth to continue on its course as I choose. It is always worth a smile when one begins to realize it, often trying to pull back from it or break the invisible chain, only to come back acknowledging what both of us already knew.

This is why so many will remind you - the ultimate collar encompasses the heart, mind, emotions and soul.

With that said - there is no specific point in which the relationship begins, but I never consider it a true and full fledged commitment until we have sat down and discussed at length what the relationship entails - at which point I then allow the Pet in question to "title" me as "Father", "Daddy", "Master", etc.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 26

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 1:59:54 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

When you both want it and agree to it. He says he knew I was the right one from day one. I needed more time than that. Despite all the talking we had done, I needed to see him in action, to know that I could trust him all the way.

It took a couple of months for me to be sure. Prior to that we were exclusive, and played together, but I didn't view that as submitting.

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Post #: 27

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 2:01:55 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

When you both want it and agree to it. He says he knew I was the right one from day one. I needed more time than that. Despite all the talking we had done, I needed to see him in action, to know that I could trust him all the way.

It took a couple of months for me to be sure. Prior to that we were exclusive, and played together, but I didn't view that as submitting.

I think it might be a good thing for the Dominant to "know" before the submissive.
Many relationships are like a dance, and "someone" has to lead.
I enjoy "leading".

Glad it worked out for you!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 28

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 2:45:45 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

At what point do you call someone your dom? At what point do you call someone your sub? Is it a formal thing, like upon signing a contract or accepting a collar? Or does it evolve slowly and organically until one day you just realize it's there?

This is an interesting quesiton... and I suspect that is alot of variety of approaches for everyone. I think the way we get there can be rather interesting in of itself.

For myself... With both Alandra and Kyra it was a more natural process that was motivated by the interactions by our differing personalities. It did involve into a formal process but in both cases it was more an acknowledgment of what was already there than a beginning of something new.

I would say it is very much like those who have married due to the love they have for each other. They married because they love and desire to be with each other.... We acknowledged our Power dynamics because of where our interactions brought us due to the our perspective personalities.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 29

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 2:48:22 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

At what point do you call someone your dom? At what point do you call someone your sub? Is it a formal thing, like upon signing a contract or accepting a collar? Or does it evolve slowly and organically until one day you just realize it's there?

This is an interesting quesiton... and I suspect that is alot of variety of approaches for everyone. I think the way we get there can be rather interesting in of itself.

For myself... With both Alandra and Kyra it was a more natural process that was motivated by the interactions by our differing personalities. It did involve into a formal process but in both cases it was more an acknowledgment of what was already there than a beginning of something new.

I would say it is very much like those who have married due to the love they have for each other. They married because they love and desire to be with each other.... We acknowledged our Power dynamics because of where our interactions brought us due to the our perspective personalities.

Thank you for commenting Knight {I so admire you and your lovely ladies}.
Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 30

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 3:24:30 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

yes... by the time that Kyra traveled to visit there was already an awareness between us of what our personality orientation was with regards to our interactions. However, there was no Formal acknowledged in a relationship sense.

quote:

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?

yes... the first moment we said hi to each other in a chat room several years ago... and from that time on the awareness developed and evolved. The important thing to understand is that Self-awareness is of particular importance. I was at the time of meeting Kyra and long before her.. Alandra... very self-aware of my personality and orientation with regards to my intimate relationships. This self-awareness has a huge impact on the interactions you have with another person. Alandra at the time I met her was much less consciously self-aware of her submissive orientation but with interactions she had with me her self-awareness developed rather rapidly. Kyra was alittle more self-aware but was not confident in this self-awareness. In many ways, our initial relationship was more about Kyra learning how a power dynamic relationship could be healthy and not fall into a co-dependency quagmire. It was through the discussions that Kyra started to feel more positive and confident in her self-awareness as she began to understand how she could make choices to live this self-awareness in a healthy and fullfilling manner. I think it came more as a surprize that this path could and would be traveled with the me... even though that wasn't either of our intentions intially.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 31

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 3:37:48 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

yes... by the time that Kyra traveled to visit there was already an awareness between us of what our personality orientation was with regards to our interactions. However, there was no Formal acknowledged in a relationship sense.

quote:

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?

yes... the first moment we said hi to each other in a chat room several years ago... and from that time on the awareness developed and evolved. The important thing to understand is that Self-awareness is of particular importance. I was at the time of meeting Kyra and long before her.. Alandra... very self-aware of my personality and orientation with regards to my intimate relationships. This self-awareness has a huge impact on the interactions you have with another person. Alandra at the time I met her was much less consciously self-aware of her submissive orientation but with interactions she had with me her self-awareness developed rather rapidly. Kyra was alittle more self-aware but was not confident in this self-awareness. In many ways, our initial relationship was more about Kyra learning how a power dynamic relationship could be healthy and not fall into a co-dependency quagmire. It was through the discussions that Kyra started to feel more positive and confident in her self-awareness as she began to understand how she could make choices to live this self-awareness in a healthy and fullfilling manner. I think it came more as a surprize that this path could and would be traveled with the me... even though that wasn't either of our intentions intially.

Thank you for sharing a bit of your history with us.
You all had the compatible personalities to make your relationship work.
Your personal D/s "dance" has worked out well for all involved!
Congratulations KOM, Kyra and Alandra for showing us a long term
relationship model that works!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/20/2009 3:40:08 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 32

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 4:22:56 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

When I first met Sir he discussed BDSM to me, but we really did not get into Ds to a few months later and then as friends with benifits. Two years later and a half, we still friends with benifits exclusively and more.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 33

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 6:45:46 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Thank you for commenting Knight {I so admire you and your lovely ladies}.
Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?

I want to clarify here that this was not my question and perhaps you've misconstrued, or maybe you're just asking your own questions to KoM at the moment. But just in case...

I was in no way asking when it was determined who was the dominant and who the submissive, that's something most people could tell you before they meet, assuming they have a general dominant or submissive orientation already established.

However, just because I am a dominant and I start to get to know a submissive, doesn't mean he is "my submissive" until some point when it is made clear that he is. I was asking more about how that realization is come upon or made official.

< Message edited by DominaSmartass -- 1/20/2009 6:46:29 PM >

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 34

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 6:50:30 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Thank you for commenting Knight {I so admire you and your lovely ladies}.
Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?

I totally understood the question.
I was asking KOM, since he and Kyra lived in different countries,
WHEN they understood their D/s dynamic started.
Thanks

I want to clarify here that this was not my question and perhaps you've misconstrued, or maybe you're just asking your own questions to KoM at the moment. But just in case...

I was in no way asking when it was determined who was the dominant and who the submissive, that's something most people could tell you before they meet, assuming they have a general dominant or submissive orientation already established.

However, just because I am a dominant and I start to get to know a submissive, doesn't mean he is "my submissive" until some point when it is made clear that he is. I was asking more about how that realization is come upon or made official.

I figure if you meet me and I have Dominant on my profile, and you have submissive,
we already know what the other person is about.
I am not a switch, so I doubt a submissive would take me for being a submissive.
hummm

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/20/2009 7:05:49 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 35

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 6:53:53 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

At least with me, if there isn't some obvious D/s element (even just an obvious "who's in charge" attitude in the connection), I've discovered that the D/s element rarely actually evolves further. This used to really bug me because people would suggest becoming friends first, and then I'd become friends, and then it would never turn into anything stronger than friendship, or a vanilla relationship. But whenever there was an obvious distinction as to who was the alpha in the relationship right from the start, the relationship has grown fruitful and worked.

I have to agree with littlesarbonn, here.
If we are in "friendship", non D/s mode for too long, often I have NO desire to "get" into D/s mode with that person.
I am not mechanical and I can't / don't WANT to have to turn on and off my desires.

What a wonderful topic and one that I can relate to, a lot.
I am the Dominant party, and I feel I should be the one to "decide"
when the D/s relationship "begins".
At the very least, this is a decision that should be made "together", so that both parties are on the same page.

I have had FAR too many submissive males and females that want to either
"jump" into a D/s relationship, without WANTING to take the time to get to know me,
AND I have had far too many submissive's that feel they will be the one to decide
at what point the D/s relationship "begins".

I don't engage in casual play or casual relationships, so PRIOR to any serious, intimate, physical D/s {play} dynamics begin, we will both ALREADY know we are in a "relationship".

Again, this is a topic dear to my heart, and I have had serious issues with this subject,
and far too many "submissives" that want to be the one to decide when the D/s relationship, will "begin".

I think many of us that are single or have been single for long periods of time, struggle with this "issue" whether we realize it or not.

Hiya Domina Smartass,
did you miss this long post?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 36

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 7:21:13 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I figure if you meet me and I have Dominant on my profile, and you have submissive,
we already know what the other person is about.
I am not a switch, so I doubt a submissive would take me for being a submissive.
hummm

Again, not really the question. Are you saying that you are in a D/s relationship with everyone who has "submissive" listed on their profile? If not, then there must be a certain point at which you and the submissive agree that he is not just "a" submissive but "your" submissive. The way in which this is determined, as well as the how it is realized and how long it takes, was the crux of my questions.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 37

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 7:25:04 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I figure if you meet me and I have Dominant on my profile, and you have submissive,
we already know what the other person is about.
I am not a switch, so I doubt a submissive would take me for being a submissive.
hummm

Again, not really the question. Are you saying that you are in a D/s relationship with everyone who has "submissive" listed on their profile? If not, then there must be a certain point at which you and the submissive agree that he is not just "a" submissive but "your" submissive. The way in which this is determined, as well as the how it is realized and how long it takes, was the crux of my questions.

Okay, I understand now.
As I stated above, I think that the DOMINANT should normally be the person
who decides when the D/s relationship begins.
At the very least it is a joint decision.
Also, as I stated since I don't engage in casual play if we are involved in any physical, sexual
or any kind of real activity, we are IN a D/s relationship.
Also, for ME it begins when we are committed to developing our friendship and we mutually agree to take it to the next level.
Believe me, the submissive will certainly understand when a D/s relationship begins with me.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/20/2009 7:27:19 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 38

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 7:26:29 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Hiya Domina Smartass,
did you miss this long post?

Nope, didn't miss that one. It's just from your subsequent posts (see quotes below) I got the impression that you thought I was asking or implying that it was unknown who was a dominant/the dominant and who was a submissive/the submissive and I wanted to clarify.

quote:

Would it be safe to say that when Kyra FIRST traveled to visit you, you both already knew
she was the submissive and you were the Dominant?

Was there ever a point, that her submission and your Dominance where not clear?
....
I figure if you meet me and I have Dominant on my profile, and you have submissive,
we already know what the other person is about.
I am not a switch, so I doubt a submissive would take me for being a submissive.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 39

RE: At what point does the D/s relationship begin? - 1/20/2009 7:28:14 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I figure if you meet me and I have Dominant on my profile, and you have submissive,
we already know what the other person is about.
I am not a switch, so I doubt a submissive would take me for being a submissive.
hummm

Again, not really the question. Are you saying that you are in a D/s relationship with everyone who has "submissive" listed on their profile? If not, then there must be a certain point at which you and the submissive agree that he is not just "a" submissive but "your" submissive. The way in which this is determined, as well as the how it is realized and how long it takes, was the crux of my questions.

Okay, I understand now.
As I stated above, I think that the DOMINANT should normally be the person
who decides when the D/s relationship begins.
At the very least it is a joint decision.
Also, as I stated since I don't engage in casual play if we are involved in any physical, sexual
or any kind of real activity, we are IN a D/s relationship.

Ok, I gotcha now :)

Now, I could totally disagree with you about the dom being the one to decide (I personally think it absolutely must be a joint decision or it's meaningless.) But I'll leave it at a difference of opinions here.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 40

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