That thing called power... (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> That thing called power... (1/24/2009 6:37:11 PM)

So, I'm reading through the Constitution again today and it struck me that the word 'power' is used a lot in conjunction with the office of President. The President has the power to do ABC and so on and so forth. The office instills the power in the man. Then I read a thread started by Master Bull on the Gorean forum and thought it was quite well done. I really enjoyed reading through it and it struck me that he doesn't have an 'office' but from what I know of him by reading him for so long, he has some intangible 'it' factor going on that has nothing to do with authority. His office does not instill power, but rather he brings his power to his office. Call it the office of Man in you need .. it doesn't matter.. it's metaphorical. ;)

So, the question .. how do you get your power? Do you earn it then take office.. or do you have it so get the office? I'm not talking about authority here. You don't really have authority unless it's recognized by someone that you do or you force it upon them by strength, will or law. I'm talking about raw power that you can wield as you wish. Do you think of it as a skillset that you can tap into when you want or something inante that manifests in the presence of subordination? Something else? Can you taste it? Does it diminish with age, redundancy or longevity or have you found it to grow or, perhaps, maintain a certain level within your psyche? Is it easily muted by external factors such as being sleepy, ill or maybe sexually spent? How do you recharge if that's the case?

For those who are on the kneel side of the flogger, who recognize power as part of what drives their desire to submit, serve or something else, do you think you have a direct impact on the power your dominant weilds? Does your dominant take your power or do you give it freely because they have earned such from you? If you give it, how do you give it? Is it strictly a matter of obedience to the will of another or something else?

I'm bi, so the gender usage doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Feel free to answer, if you like, regardless of your gender or orientation. Power's sexy no matter where it comes from. [;)]



colouredin -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 6:53:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

For those who are on the kneel side of the flogger, who recognize power as part of what drives their desire to submit, serve or something else, do you think you have a direct impact on the power your dominant weilds? Does your dominant take your power or do you give it freely because they have earned such from you? If you give it, how do you give it? Is it strictly a matter of obedience to the will of another or something else?



Power is given and for me generally never all at once. A dominant gets the power over me that he deserves to have. I noticed this recently when in my last relationship I was refered to as a brat, something that I have never been called before and I realised that I had simply not given him any power because to me he had done nothing to deserve it.

Also I retain a fair amount of power, the power of self belief and self control are still mine, I have to allow the manipulation of emotions and switch of the power but it is still there waiting to be switched back on if it needs to be. Each day is a negotation, how much power should I relinquish. In longer relationships the process is easier but initially it can change daily until I am totally trusting of how the power will be used.

But its is still not the total removal of power, it never can be there will still be occasions when I need my personal power, the power to control the way I react to people and the emotions I allow myself to feel. I mean I do still have to interact in the jungle that is the real world.

I think that the word power is so often misunderstood all people are powerful it is simply up to them how they use their power. We have the power of free thought and that is an under rated thing.




sravaka -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 6:59:57 PM)

What a cool question.

Closer to my start in this business, I used to speak of my "it-meter," which, I think now, was all about sensing some indefinable power-that-emanates-from-the-core in prospective partners.  I preferred to think of this separately from domliness (sort of), since there were people around who have "it" but don't know what to do with it, or who have "it" and can't control it, as well as those who have "it" and use it to brilliant effect or completely lack "it" but still think they are dominants. (and maybe they are; who am i to say.) It's a very hard thing for me to analyze-- that's probably best left to those who have it-- but I tend to think it's an innate skillset (or, close enough to innate to be easily cultivated or honed) that involves things like quickness to assess situations and hand down decisions, perceptiveness/psychological acuity, self-confidence and ability to project it, sheer willpower.  (none of those get to the heart of it though.)

In any event, I don't "give power" to someone who has "it".  All thought of my power drains away from me when confronted by "it," and there is nothing left in that currency available to for the it-holder take (i don't think he needs mine to do his thing regardless).  If I give anything in response, it is service, desire to obey and please.  But even that is not so much given/taken as provoked.




scarlethiney -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 7:03:40 PM)

Bita I think when I own my own integrity, when I am most comfortable in my skin with my choices, not being influenced by others but feeling secure in the place I chose or what side I choose then that is where I find my power.  Let's face it security is a powerful thing. Feeling secure because you are respected and appreciated elevates your personal power.
I think for me age has enhanced my power, the essence of who I am and who I see myself as in the future.
I am less powerful when tired or not feeling my best and it takes solitude and peace to get me back to that place.
The purest form of  power to me is confidence, mindfulness, compassion and tolerance. Maintaining those four things requires a lot of energy and strength.

scarlet



windchymes -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 7:31:45 PM)

Giving good blow jobs does it for me.



LaTigresse -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 7:48:48 PM)

To me, it is an inner quality that a person either has or not. I think there are alot of people that strive to have it, may even learn to give a good show of it. They suceed in convincing people of it. But when it is tested they crumble under the pressure. People that have real power only get stronger when tested.

It's like an inner strength of steel that only gets tempered and stronger when put to the fire.

I also think that power can be manifested in many different ways. Not always in an obvious leader. I've met some very powerful people who's power was subtle and steady. Not prone to flash and flair.



IronBear -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 8:20:51 PM)

I believe there is Personal Power/Authority and there is Invested Power/Authority. Sometimes the two crossover and one gets confused with t'other



catize -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 8:43:34 PM)

When a president is elected it is because the majority of the populace believe he is:
first, capable of wielding the power of his office, and
second, will use his power wisely. 
It is the same for me in my D/s relationships.  I choose to give them the power, and I demonstrate that with my deference and obedience.
 
Insofar as the fact I have vested them with power, I do believe I have a direct impact, or influence, on their ability to dominate me.  I have the capacity to walk away as neither one of them would use force to keep me subordinate to them; and yet I stay.  I have a predisposition to sarcasm, yet I bite my tongue.  My natural inclination is to resist and rebel, yet I am quite docile with them.  I would also say the reverse is true, for if they did not have the drive to wield that power, I could not yield it. 



StrangerThan -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 9:00:09 PM)

The power... is a mental thing. I'm 49 years old. I've been through the running of hills and mountains, the martial arts schools, the military trainings, the weight lifting, roamed a few oceans, and spent a lot of solitary time on islands that had no people, or huddled on the side of a mountain in freezing weather with nothing but a fire to keep me company. Sometimes the things learned come in handy. Most often though, what comes in handy is being able to look at a situation and decide what's right for me, where I want to involve myself, where I need to step away, how to get from point A to point B even if there's a maze between the two.Some where in there comes the balance of getting up in the morning and knowing that whatever issue the day brings, I can probably either fix it or figure a way around it.

I think there's always an innate side to it, but refined it becomes a skillset. And I think what refines it to some degree is the realization of responsibility. When a submissive accepts the cuffs or rope or whatever binding you choose to use on her/him, what they're really placing in your hands is the responsibility for their health, to a degree their mental and physical well being, for what they need to feel and want to feel - even if that need and want is nothing more than what you choose for them. You lead, they follow. You choose the path, and for a while, take a body ride. Only you're not physically in the body, you are crafting what it feels, when it feels it, where the mind goes. As I told my submissive not long ago. It's not her responsibility to feel what I want her to feel. It is mine to create that feeling in her, the atmosphere, the intensity, the highs and lows that slide like music played upon nerve endings rather than strings, the knowlegde that no matter what I do to her, I will be there when it's over.

I've taught at conferences in front of hundreds of people, taught six year olds binary math, tutored high school and college kids on writing. There's a sense of leading while others follow in those actions that carries a sense of fulfillment. I think that's the innate part, the driving factor I guess to control something. The refined part is the journey you take your audience, your submissive on... because you know the path, the pitfalls, the stumbling blocks. In fact, you create them and the sensations they bring.

And if anything, age brings a patience I didn't have years ago.

Of course, when I was younger, I knew everything and didn't need patience.

This is a complex question. I'm not doing it justice and I want to take my woman to bed. :) Maybe tomorrow.






MadRabbit -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 9:49:31 PM)

If we're talking more in the context of personal power, then it's the sum total of my confidence, knowledge, life experience and skill sets. All of these merge together to give me the ability to manipulate and control my environment. Raw energy that I feed off of to get what I want and desire in this life.

I am a power junkie in that sense. I thrive off of feeding and taking in every peice of knowledge, information, skill, ability, whatever that crosses my path and provides me with the tools to make the most of my life.

A lot of people quest for power given to them by a position or a badge or a title, but I care about me and what I can do. That is what defines a "Man" in my eyes.



ResidentSadist -> RE: That thing called power... (1/24/2009 10:45:27 PM)

No office can instill power, not even the presidency.  If we both went to prison, that weasel Bush would be my bitch.    In the first 3 seconds I meet someone, I know that if we all crashed in the jungle, they would either be a follower, a leader or a casualty (food for the wild beasts).  I think this summation process is an intrinsic instinct everyone has whether they are aware of it working or not.  My power comes from the history of life choices that make me a leader. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
So, the question .. how do you get your power? Do you earn it then take office.. or do you have it so get the office?

[et al]



BitaTruble -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 1:38:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

All thought of my power drains away from me when confronted by "it," and there is nothing left in that currency available to for the it-holder take (i don't think he needs mine to do his thing regardless).  If I give anything in response, it is service, desire to obey and please.  But even that is not so much given/taken as provoked.


   Sravaka, I quoted this portion of your response because it most closely matches my own. I love the way you expressed yourself especially the part about power draining away from you when confronted by that 'it' factor. The exact same thing happens to me and when that drains away is when I feel most vulnerable and from there, the sky's the limit, but only in a good way. ::grins:: RS - you almost made me spew coffee with the Bush thing. But then, Bush often made me want to spew, so maybe it's no big thing. ::chuckles:: I've never actually crashed in a jungle .. in fact, as I recall, I've never actually been in a jungle, but knowing me, unless there was someone who had even more of a take charge, get it done ability/attitude than myself, I'd be following the north star to some water going downstream to get my ass out of there! I'm not prepared to be beast fodder .. at least not wild, jungle beast fodder!  Now that I said that though.. it sounds kind of hot. ::laughs::  Colouredin - You're right, most folks do have personal power which can't be totally drained away .. but it 'feels' that way sometimes .. hair pull, low growl in my ear and I'm pretty much toast!  [;)] Scarlethiney - You brought a different level to my question! Very interesting. I hadn't thought about integrity in conjunction with security and how that holds hands with personal power. Food for thought. Thanks! Windchymes - Simple, direct and to the point. How can ya argue with it! ::grins:: LaT - Esteemed UberGoddessOfTheUniverse - so true that! In fact, that quiet power, the one that's doesn't come up and smack you on the side of the head is the one that I most cherish because it's just 'there', palpable without being crass or arrogant. Great post.. thank you! IronBear & Catize - A question for both (either of you) - IronBear -You said that sometimes invested power gets confused with personal power (which speaks back to the OP) and I'm wondering whether you and/or Catize feel that if power is invested it's less likely to last unless it's fed by some external factor (such as obedience or submission, service or something else) because that's my gut reaction to the idea?  StrangerThan - I'm saving your post for after another cup (or two!) of coffee. ::grins:: MR - power junkies! Great term. I suppose I'd have to say that I'm a bit of a power junkie myself only on the other side of the flogger. I thrive off being fed upon. Man, I do love symbiosis! A fresh perspective from the flip side and very much in line with Srvaka's post, so thanks, MR!        



JustDarkness -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 2:25:40 AM)

power only excists when it is recoqniced as power.

A D has power over his owned sub/slave and she acknowledges that......while others subs don't do that..or just don't care and therefor the power doesn't work.

I had a boss that didn't function right. No one wanted to do anything for him...although he had a high rank...his power was gone..because it wasn't supported.



LaTigresse -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 4:24:17 AM)

Celeste, I adore threads that cause me to think and you've certainly created one here. Thank you.

In reading through the responses I see the various types of power being brought up, that I pondered upon when I first read your initial post.

With some it is physical power. Awesome when we see it, but usually not a long lived type. Bodies age, machines also. Something new and more powerful comes along and makes what was awe inspiring, old news. I've seen many men crushed and lost because of this illusion of power, when lost.

Along that same line, I've known women that have used their physical appearance as power. Much like above, when that no longer exists, they crumble.

Others, it is mental power, education. I love it, but it also can be a false sense of power. No one person can know all things. Take them out of their knowledge comfort zone, their power becomes useless.

I am wondering if there is such a thing as emotional power. If some of us, myself included, find a certain bit of power in being able to control our emotions and whether or not that is always a good thing. If it is also a power that can destroy those that have it. Rendering them, powerless.

Then there is a power of the soul. The one that is most attractive to me. It's an intagible thing that alot of people seem to miss. To be it is very beautiful and just simply shines.

And then there is that ellusive something......almost a charisma. That certain something you just feel in some people. It drawn some like a moth to a flame and yet will also repulse others. While I would like to think it is always a positive, I think historically we have too many examples of it being a horrible thing. Even existing in people that have also shown great weaknesses, even to the point of horrible madness and a rot of the soul. Some of the worst dictators I think are examples. Able to inspire large numbers of people to commit terrible attrocities against humanity because of the the power of their words. Yet, to investigate their life, you often find they were fearful and insecure in their younger lives.

Even here, I see evidence of people that wield some power over others that know them, yet I find myself repulsed. Not convinced that the existance of it, makes that person someone I would wish to know, or admire at all if I did. Even if it appears others have drank the koolaide and found it pleasant.

I am still mulling it all over. Wondering, even while it is an inescapable aspect of humanity, given the potential for abuses, is it really a good thing?



BitaTruble -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 5:05:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

The power... is a mental thing. ...

I think there's always an innate side to it, but refined it becomes a skillset. And I think what refines it to some degree is the realization of responsibility. When a submissive accepts the cuffs or rope or whatever binding you choose to use on her/him, what they're really placing in your hands is the responsibility for their health, to a degree their mental and physical well being, for what they need to feel and want to feel - even if that need and want is nothing more than what you choose for them. You lead, they follow. You choose the path, and for a while, take a body ride. Only you're not physically in the body, you are crafting what it feels, when it feels it, where the mind goes. As I told my submissive not long ago. It's not her responsibility to feel what I want her to feel. It is mine to create that feeling in her, the atmosphere, the intensity, the highs and lows that slide like music played upon nerve endings rather than strings, the knowlegde that no matter what I do to her, I will be there when it's over.

 :;snipped only for the sake of brevity::  I've read through this several times now and to my mindset, it's poetry. You're a gifted writer and capture, quite well, what I have, personally, experienced from being on the receiving end of that sort of Power, how I think of a Master, what sort of responsibility is entailed in that title and how one maintains a power dynamic with physical, mental and spirtual control. It really took my breath away.   I think I'm going to stalk you. Yes, yes.. I'm going to stalk you so when I show up on your admirer's list.. you'll know it's because of this post.  Thank you for the morning gem.. it goes great with coffee. [:)]



BitaTruble -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 5:24:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am wondering if there is such a thing as emotional power. If some of us, myself included, find a certain bit of power in being able to control our emotions and whether or not that is always a good thing. If it is also a power that can destroy those that have it. Rendering them, powerless.
 Lots of great points, LaT and some that I wanted to, personally, address.  In a recent thread about love, I had mentioned that what I share, now, with Michael isn't like anything I've ever had in the past because it opens me up to a vulnerability that I've never allowed before .. and that means the potential to crush me is there, so count me in with any who believe in the power of emotions. Sometimes it means that I get to experience amazing highs, sometimes it means that the lows hurt more than they otherwise may have but the price for the balance is heavily tipped towards the good .. at least at this point in time, rather than the bad.

quote:

Then there is a power of the soul. The one that is most attractive to me. It's an intagible thing that alot of people seem to miss. To be it is very beautiful and just simply shines.
 I agree, when it's inspired, I don't think it can be surpassed.. but that, like what I wrote above regarding love, does make it more vulnerable and I've found that it can be damaged and not so easily repaired. Damaged love .. well, you can always find someone else to love if that's the case.. but a damaged soul, not so easy since we've only got the one. I think that's why I spent so many years trying to protect it .. but, that's another thread done and gone and not something that needs to be dredged up again. I'm going to sit next to you in the beauty parlor and just look at it that way.

quote:

And then there is that ellusive something......almost a charisma. That certain something you just feel in some people. It drawn some like a moth to a flame and yet will also repulse others. While I would like to think it is always a positive, I think historically we have too many examples of it being a horrible thing. Even existing in people that have also shown great weaknesses, even to the point of horrible madness and a rot of the soul. Some of the worst dictators I think are examples. Able to inspire large numbers of people to commit terrible attrocities against humanity because of the the power of their words. Yet, to investigate their life, you often find they were fearful and insecure in their younger lives.
 Another great point! Power can be used in so many ways by those who have it and it's a good thing to remember that some of that can be actual evil so it behooves us to keep a sharp eye out, trust our guts and use our heads when dealing with people of power. I didn't (and perhaps still don't) have the ability to push that away regardless of the intent or motivations behind it. As I mentioned to MR, I'm a power junkie and being fed off of takes me places that nothing else does and were someone to feed off me with ill intent, I don't know that I could stop it or that I would want to. Yet more food for thought. Thank you, dear lady, for your post and insights.




Petruchio -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 6:31:04 AM)

Hi Bita!

Too funny, WindChymes.

Although my mother often told me how dominant I was even as a child, I hadn't considered myself a leader, only independent, a loner, one with a few insecurities. It surprised me when a some would gather around me, asking me to lead, because I wasn't seeking to do anything other than run my own life.

This happened in my personal life but most often in business. Even during military training, the colonel pulled me aside to put me in leadership courses and eventually make me an instructor.

My conclusion is that if you look like you know where you're going, some will follow. I'm not sure if that imbues power or if that is power, but perhaps it's both.



oceanwynds -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 6:49:35 AM)

Power is when you go through the phoenix syndrome and rise from your own ashes. It is when all odds are against you and the only one to save you is your word for Goddess and yourself.
Power is not in sending out orders, but in filling another's soul that they can accomplish things.
Power is something not be heard but it is felt. Be around someone who radiates their true self [self-worth] and they are contagious.
Power honors others, yet gently continues to walk on their own path.
Power can bend and be flexible, but it does not break.
Power is within all, but does not mean all will call it up to experience.



catize -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 7:02:16 AM)

quote:

and I'm wondering whether you and/or Catize feel that if power is invested it's less likely to last unless it's fed by some external factor (such as obedience or submission, service or something else) because that's my gut reaction to the idea?   


 
You began your question by talking about the power of the presidential office, which is why my thoughts went to the word ‘vested.’ 
 
Vested—having an unquestionable right to the possession of property or a privilege.  
 
The dominants in my life have power over me; privileges, if you will, that no one else has because I allow it.
I can sense the indefinable “it” in their personalities because I was looking for “it” when I met them.  
But they also have set limits on how much control they wish to exert in my life.  In that sense, I suppose the power dynamic in these specific relationships could be viewed as finite if for some reason I withdrew my consent, or if I was no longer able to give my consent. They also could decide they no longer required my submission. 



VeryNastyDom -> RE: That thing called power... (1/25/2009 7:18:28 AM)

Power comes from the office.  If I am the president, I can do certain things just like if I am the Dom I get to control the sub. 

However, access to the office comes from respect which has to be earned.  If the people respect me and think that I will look out for their interests by wielding my power in an appropriate way, I will get elected.  If a sub respects me and trusts me then she will kneel before me.

Respect leads to the office which grants the power; it can never be the other way around in a consensual situation.



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