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Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 8:56:31 AM

floorkitten

Posts: 50
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline

“Submission should not be measured by how much one can take.”

There are occasions when I come across a phrase or am part of a conversation in which a portion will weld itself into my subconscious for future reflection. This is one of those times.

When I was first exposed to the above phrase, my immediate response was rather cynical in nature; surely no one really thought that the level of pain one could take was a measuring device for submission. Yet, I felt that subconscious welding taking place. Did I not – at one time – use that very measurement in my own self-assessment as a submissive? Of course I did.

Thinking back to some of my first exposures to scene life, I would watch with envy the bottoms who subjected their bodies to the devious desires of their tops – thinking the entire time what “good” submissives they were and how I would never be able to reach that level of submission. For I was defining their submission, as well as my own – by how much they could physically take within a scene, no real knowledge about the underlying components that make up the core of these individuals. Of course now, a decade and a half later, my own understanding and complete acceptance of who I am, has grown, changed and matured.

When I speak about the scene today, which I liken to what it is we do in regard to the S&M part of what we do, I realize it is filled with a kaleidoscope of techniques and sensations of various levels and dimensions. Being involved in the scene, does not necessarily make one a submissive and the intensity of a scene is in no way – a measuring device for submission. As far as that goes, it is not a measurement for Dominance, either, although it is of my opinion that Dominants have this whole other measuring device all of their own, which would be a book within itself.

So my initial and cynical reaction to the opening phrase, was wrong. Which then made me wonder just how many submissives out there, use this very measurement for themselves - especially those just starting to get their feet wet.

Bottoming, being a submissive or being a slave, is about finding that one piece of yourself and learning how to embrace it. Accepting your own self definition, as well as, respecting the same self definition of those that make up our community as a whole. It is about where you feel complete and at peace, and has nothing to do with “….how much one can take.”

Just a few shared thoughts on a Tuesday.

~kitten

Post #: 1

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 9:11:43 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I measure things by how my perspectives have changed.

At one point I could never conceive of a multi dominant relationship. At one point I could never conceive of a open poly Ds relationship. At one point I could never conceive of a slave who tops. And so much more- boxes that switches were in, subs, bottoms, doms, vanillas.

These shifts rarely happen with a bang, they just seem to shift on their own until one day you look back and realize "wow, I used to believe that?"

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 2

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 9:25:13 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I measure things by how my perspectives have changed.

At one point I could never conceive of a multi dominant relationship. At one point I could never conceive of a open poly Ds relationship. At one point I could never conceive of a slave who tops. And so much more- boxes that switches were in, subs, bottoms, doms, vanillas.

These shifts rarely happen with a bang, they just seem to shift on their own until one day you look back and realize "wow, I used to believe that?"

When we all arrive here, we are in the middle of a vast cloudy plain. What we accept is limited by how far we can see. Slowly, the fog lifts, gradually revealing more and more of our surrounds.

It's probably a good thing since most of us would run screaming back up the rabbit hole if we could see the whole thing at first glance.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 9:43:04 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

being a slave, is about finding that one piece of yourself and learning how to embrace it. Accepting your own self definition, as well as, respecting the same self definition of those that make up our community as a whole. It is about where you feel complete and at peace, and has nothing to do with “….how much one can take.”
==========

hmmm interesting...
"I" embrace my house domestics service...it is ALL i do. NO s/m.
complete and at peace? nope. not gonna happen in THIS lifetime. I have TOO much anger inside. there are too many idiots I have to put up with.
my own definition? I have been saying that since I started looking into this 6 yrs ago...service domestics only..
and I am TOLD ...I am NOT a PROPER slave if I do not do love n sex n all that other b.s.---and s/m..........SERVICE ONLY DOMESTICS is WRONG I am told...

WHY?????????

what happened to that b.s. about tolerance in this lifestyle?????

THERE AINT ANY!!!!!!!!!!! it's all a lie!!!!!!!!

take care

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 4

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 9:43:58 AM

phoenixslave

Posts: 66
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline

Not all D/s relationships involve pain. Or contain very little. One can be very much owned, controlled, directed and dominated without it. i find myself wanting more sometimes, even though i am not a masochist just because i should be able to take it to prove my submissiveness.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 5

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/10/2006 9:50:23 AM

willing2serve

Posts: 385
Joined: 4/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Not all D/s relationships involve pain. Or contain very little. One can be very much owned, controlled, directed and dominated without it.

This has been a huge lesson for me. Ive only been in the lifestyle 5 years, two of those years was spent in an S&M relationship..to me at that time, submission was based upon how much I trusted and how much I could endure.

Now, I am in my first M/s relationship where the foundation is control with very little pain. In the beginning I was making an effort to judge my success again on how much I could endure and was getting very frustrated because i was making very little progress in giving myself completely.

This has been an interesting journey and so much learning left to do.

_____________________________

Definitely A Journey!

(in reply to phoenixslave)

Post #: 6

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/11/2006 11:50:44 PM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I still catch myself occasionally equating how much a sub can take to how submissive they really are. The only situation where it really comes up revolves around someone specific. Just last week one of my submissive girlfriends received a friendly slap on the ass from another friend and she bitched about how bad it hurt for half an hour. I caught myself thinking, "Either she's not very submissive or she just likes the attention she gets from whining." Of course I realize that pain threshhold is no indicator of how submissive one is, but from a girl who brags about how much she takes in a play session it seemed rather odd that she couldn't handle one slap (not very hard) on the ass. I wonder if she whines that much when her dom crops her... (Probably not. It's probably just attention mongering.)

Edited to add: No, I don't believe that your level of pain tolerance equals your level of submission. I just can't help the random thoughts sometimes. They...just...won't...go...away! (I probably shouldn't try to squeeze them out so hard. This could end up messy.)

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 1/12/2006 12:15:33 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 7

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 12:05:46 AM

ToServeIsToLive

Posts: 222
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

i have a really high pain tolerance since long before i knew about BDSM and submissives. When i was first learning of it and realizing what i was, having a high pain tolerance therefore i must be submissive was never one of my thoughts. i could see where being more submissive would allow someone to go beyond their normal pain tolerance, but you definitly can't look at pain tolerance and determine how submissive someone is or vice versa.

i personally don't think submission is something worth trying to measure. Perhaps it's worth describing in an abstract manner, but to try to rank it seems wrong to me.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 8

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 3:10:59 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

For me submission is never measured by how much pain you can take. I do say i can handle a good deal of pain , because of my pleasure in pleasing him , it makes it so i can get goo goo over the pain.You either are submissive at your core , its who you are or aren't.

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 9

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 3:45:41 AM

phoenixslave

Posts: 66
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

I still catch myself occasionally equating how much a sub can take to how submissive they really are. The only situation where it really comes up revolves around someone specific. Just last week one of my submissive girlfriends received a friendly slap on the ass from another friend and she bitched about how bad it hurt for half an hour. I caught myself thinking, "Either she's not very submissive or she just likes the attention she gets from whining." Of course I realize that pain threshhold is no indicator of how submissive one is, but from a girl who brags about how much she takes in a play session it seemed rather odd that she couldn't handle one slap (not very hard) on the ass. I wonder if she whines that much when her dom crops her... (Probably not. It's probably just attention mongering.)

This is off topic but your post reminded me. I got a friendly swat at a christmas party and it nearly took me to my knees. while i didn't complain about it, our host noticed i was sitting rather gingerly and inquired. At that point Master showed off his handiwork which was a black and blue ass on me from the day before. Lol, maybe your friend had a bruise or two as well.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 10

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 10:17:32 AM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

That's very possible. It's a bit improbable though. Her dom lives pretty far away and I'd hung out with her the day before.

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt though.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to phoenixslave)

Post #: 11

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 10:37:21 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I will say that, in my own head at least, I WILL judge a persons experience in bdsm by some of their judgements towards certain types of play. When I hear a bottom go "I never met a flogger I didn't like" I know that they probably have also simply never played with a sadist who wanted their pain more than their pleasure. When I get a puzzled look after telling someone "I don't like pain but I take it" then I know they haven't reconciled the concept of liking the act/liking the submission of the act yet.

But that's just bdsm and lifestyle concepts, nothing to do with actual experience or reality of orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 12

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 10:50:24 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I found this very interesting. To me my submission was always about how much i can give not take. To me being able to take pain is good and all but it was alwyes to me how can i give more when he already owns me and i give him 110%. So for mr was always about how much i could give.

littleone

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 13

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 11:00:59 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35

I found this very interesting. To me my submission was always about how much i can give not take. To me being able to take pain is good and all but it was alwyes to me how can i give more when he already owns me and i give him 110%. So for mr was always about how much i could give.

littleone

The problem is "how much" you give is impossible to compare to "how much" someone else will give. We each have a completely different set of priorities, needs, backgrounds, values and more. So judging someone else by YOUR standards of "giving more" doesn't work out very well.

It's perfect for you to judge yourself by your own progress (although "giving more" and "taking more pain" are not necessarily the same thing), but we can't do it to others and expect good results.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 14

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 11:39:28 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

I thought benchmarking submission was when you measured:

the height of your submissive against the bend of the bench times the distance of your stance divided by the number of strokes?

okok, I had to--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to floorkitten)

Post #: 15

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 3:59:10 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

Lucky i was noy judgring anyone i said this it wast it was to me. Hey i am not perfect whry the heck would i judge anyone. "do not judge others least you be judged" I live by that quote. i was just saying what it was for ME not what it is for anyone else. I am a big believer in live and let live as long as whatever it is make a person happy.

littleone

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 16

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 7:57:22 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

Maybe you should branch out and do commercials for Bounty, Pine Sol, and Liquid TIDE. I think you would make a credible spokesman.

(in reply to veronicaofML)

Post #: 17

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 1/12/2006 9:38:34 PM

classykindasassy

Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

Ok, the OP is rightly stated in my book.

It never was about that for me. What it has always been about for me is: do I like the way you (top or Dom) think, and are my desires a match for that? I am not some doormat looking for an identity with You. I have one and the question is, do You love it, do You want to have it grace Your life or not?

I know people have a ton of reasons why they do this lifestyle. It's just a legitimate self expression for me or it'd never have made it this long in my repertoire of things to do with my time, energy and attention.

I have used submission as a life path that has helped me along every road I walk as a spiritual being. I can learn how to deal with everything life throws at me, by looking at the poem I wrote for my Dom which resides on my profile if you care to look it up.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 18

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 2/24/2006 12:37:31 PM

astrid21

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline

i also have a high tolerance for pain...a little is good, more is better! my high pain threshold has caused me a couple problems in the past with people i didn't really know. i love the pain however do not want a "beating" astrid

(in reply to ToServeIsToLive)

Post #: 19

RE: Benchmarking Submission? - 2/24/2006 1:20:05 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

Just last week one of my submissive girlfriends received a friendly slap on the ass from another friend and she bitched about how bad it hurt for half an hour. I caught myself thinking, "Either she's not very submissive or she just likes the attention she gets from whining." Of course I realize that pain threshhold is no indicator of how submissive one is, but from a girl who brags about how much she takes in a play session it seemed rather odd that she couldn't handle one slap (not very hard) on the ass. I wonder if she whines that much when her dom crops her... (Probably not. It's probably just attention mongering.)

Edited to add: No, I don't believe that your level of pain tolerance equals your level of submission. I just can't help the random thoughts sometimes. They...just...won't...go...away! (I probably shouldn't try to squeeze them out so hard. This could end up messy.)

Another perspective... anyone who watches my Lord play with me would see that I can tolerate a good amount of pain. However, depending on the area of my body my pain tolerance is more or less. My breasts can take a lot of pain as well as my back; rip 30 clothespins off my breasts and all I do is gasp and often laugh. However, smack me on the ass and I am likely to scream or cry; I have a very low tolerance for sensation there. I just simply do not like being hit on the ass.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)

Post #: 20

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