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RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/28/2009 7:18:56 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Katchoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mel12261981

i know He has no trust for me, but what i guess i am really trying to find out is what aspects of hurt i caused Him and the children to better understand the whole situation.

Get your life back together...
...Actions speak louder than words....

I can't say what his viewpoint is, but as someone who has grown up around alcoholics, I can share mine.
And one thing I can tell you is that I don't accept alcoholism as an excuse for poor decision making. It may not be fair on my part, but I consider whatever you do to be your own choice, that you must own, drunk or sober. There is no free pass.

There is forgiveness, certainly, but that doesn't mean that the relationship will be restored to what it once was.

To exaggerate a little bit on what Katchoo mentioned, words mean next to nothing. Actions are required to demonstrate your intentions, along with consistency over an extended period of time.

That's just been my experience, though. Other people react in different ways. And of course, I don't know what the exact circumstances are for you two.

Other people's advice about the practicalities of getting and maintaining sobriety has been pretty good.

(in reply to Katchoo)

Post #: 21

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 10:40:05 AM

FRSguy

Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mel12261981

i developed alcoholism.
This persisted and wosened when He deployed (to Iraq),
our two children were under my charge
i was wondering if anyone had another point of view that i haven't seen.
all i can do is bring myself to try to see His view better.

Hmmmm.... so you want to be publicly blasted for something we know nothing about?

Wow, I cant even say it.

(in reply to Mel12261981)

Post #: 22

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 11:42:44 AM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
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I don't think she wants to be publicly blasted, I think she's just finally gotten scared enough whereas she comes and opens up in the first place she feels semi-safe in.

That's generally considered progress.

I can't count the number of times I've come to a forum and had to unload about completely off-topic life stuff simply because I didn't feel as I had anywhere else to go....

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to FRSguy)

Post #: 23

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 11:45:39 AM

FRSguy

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Thanks, that makes a lot more sense.

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 24

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 11:56:06 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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http://fortpolkguardian.com/articles/2009/01/05/bulletin_board/07bb.txt

You will find here meetings for AA and also for the family members.

It seems as though he does not understand that AA is a disease, that perhaps he believes you chose to do this, or that his absence caused it and therefore he has overwhelming guilt. No matter what he thinks, he needs, for your um's sake, to learn the truth. He could go to the chaplain for information, he could go to the family group, he could read the Big Book.

He should do all of that before he decides to destroy the stability of your family. Whether he will or not no one can say.

What you need to do is go to meetings, get a sponsor, get a job, work towards furthering your education and providing a stable home for your offspring. It's obvious that he isn't someone you can any longer depend on as either a dominant or a husband or a father devoted to his um's welfare. So you need to pick up the slack for yourself.

My ex is an alcoholic in recovery. I don't know what your husband has been/is going through. I only know what I went through. Did you cheat on him while drinking? Did you leave your family unattended? Did you rage? What he went through depended on what you did. Do you have clear memories of what you were doing? Have you done a fourth step focused on the damage you did to him? Have you written him a true apology for every incident you can remember, without defending yourself at all? You need to do that, not in hopes he will forgive you, but to further your sobriety.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to FRSguy)

Post #: 25

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 2:05:08 PM

PghSpanking

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Joined: 6/30/2006
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I am a recovering alcoholic (09/25/85). I know its not easy, but its worth doing. As others have mentioned, being dry is not the same as being sober. I had to put myself and my recovery first. I heard so often in the beginning that if I put anything or anyone ahead of or before my recovery, I would lost it/them AND I would lose my recovery.

Most of us damaged relationships and caused chaoes in our lives and in others lives. Working the steps in order helps us put our lives back in order. Though some things are lost forever, and some relationships just cant be saved.

At this point, you need to choose how you will continue to not drink, be it AA, or some other support group, or through therapy... whatever way you choose, you have to make a choice and DO IT! There are meetings EVERYWHERE, even online. There are Yahoo groups and groups on MySpace for 12 Steppers and for recoevery, as well as good old fashioned real time meetings.

Good luck... It is SOOOO worth it... and in time your family will benefit from you putting your recovery first NOW...

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 26

RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/28/2009 2:41:02 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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What did you do to hurt him?? Seriously???

You put your children in physical and mental danger by your addiction. You've put your husband in a situation in the military that could have had him reprimanded or worse. You've destroyed any trust he had in you.

You haven't been sober nearly long enough to grasp apparently just what you've done to him, your kids and anyone else close to you and even strangers.

For the sake of just yourself alone...seek out an AA meeting. They're everywhere. There are no excuses. Get the help you need and then maybe you'll figure it out.

We can sit here and discuss this all day but you will never see it until you've distanced yourself from the addiction.

Good luck. I truly mean it.

(in reply to alysia)

Post #: 27

RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/28/2009 6:15:47 PM

Mel12261981

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i just wanted to take a quick moment here to say thank you to EVERYONE for their imput, it has ment the world to me to hear some different view points, and to know that you care (and you do or you wouldn't have taken the time to leave a comment) is very cherished. Every bit of what has been said has been taken to heart and I taken everyone for your time. You've given me a lot of very sound advice and deffinatly at least two sides to the coin. Thank you again.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 28

RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/28/2009 6:31:52 PM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
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I want to modify something I wrote earlier, to try to take the edge off a little.
I sort of made it sound like I'm all "zero tolerance" about using alcohol as an excuse for screwing up.
That may have been more true at one time, but I think I'm a little more compassionate about things now.
I don't expect perfectionism from people.
I'm just writing this because you asked for other's perspective.
What your own husband's perspective will be will depend on so many factors in his own experience and where he is in his own life, of course.

(in reply to Mel12261981)

Post #: 29

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/28/2009 8:11:06 PM

Lashra

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Concentrate on getting help with your problem and getting yourself healthy both mentally and physically. If he is doing to dump you at your weakest moment, is he really that great of a Master? Not in my book. Let him go and concentrate on fixing YOU.

Just my 2 cents
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Mel12261981)

Post #: 30

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 12:12:26 AM

julietsierra

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And I guess... recognize that some people do not see alcholism as a disease. (Do we choose cancer or is it thrust upon us?) They see it as a choice zoomed out of control and they do NOT understand why you've made this choice. I'd guess, from the other side of the glass, that they recognize that when you choose to drink, you are, in effect, choosing the alcohol over them and they've opted not to compete. I could assume a lot but just given the information you've provided here, I'd say he's choosing a life that feels sane, not chaotic and that he feels that that's best for the kids. I'd also bet that he believes he's given you ample opportunities to join a sane life; you've chosen differently and now he's choosing to walk away. I'd further bet that your decision to finally enter rehab was bought on a threat of him leaving and he thinks that if he stays, you'll just go back to your old habits. I'm guessing you've made promises before. I'd bet that while he was glad you went to rehab, it's a case of too little too late. I'd bet that what love you did share is not all gone but that he's decided that that love comes with too high a price tag and right now, his concern is not you. It's in how he can best care for the children the two of you have created and that you have damaged (although you don't talk about how the kids are faring, so I don't know that they're damaged but I'd bet they are) If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that in his mind, you took a lover and in the end, he couldn't compete with Johnny Walker or whatever your alcohol of choice was. And I'd further bet that it's not all a bed of roses on his side of the fence either but that quite simply, he's done.

Why would I bet all this? Cause I've been where he is.

One more thing that you didn't ask for but I feel needs to be mentioned. I know this is painful - real painful. However, while your marriage may be ending, it doesn't have to mean that your family ends. My ex-husband chose Johnny Walker over me and the kids. Deciding to leave was so very painful. It was a very painful process for him too. However, it meant that no one was there anymore protecting him from his own demons and he was forced to deal with them. He went through some terrible times. HOWEVER.. he DID come out on the other side. He no longer drinks. He worked hard - real hard to develop a relationship with his children and it has turned out reasonably well. He's now the father he wishes they'd had growing up, but he's there now and that's what counts. He has met and developed a relationship with a really really good woman. And what's the best is that he and I have a friendship that we work on together. He, his girlfriend and I view us all as family and while I don't have the marriage, I have back all the things I fell in love with him over - and he has the support of not only his girlfriend but his ex-wife in his hopes and dreams for his future. It's not what either of us dreamed of when we married, but in many ways, it's better than we ever hoped for.

Like everyone else here, my suggestion is to work on you. Help your children heal. Approach your husband with kindness - even when you don't want to so that your future won't be filled with anger and guilt. Do what you need to do in order to be successful in your efforts to stay sober. With or without your husband, the choice to be sober truly IS the better life and while it hurts right now, you have so much more to gain without alcohol than you do with it.

juliet

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 31

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 12:52:48 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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I wish you the best on your journey. I see alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, food addiction, ideology addiction, etc. as metaphysical diseases; karmic readjustments, if you will. Something people have to go through in their spiritual evolution.

Twelve Steps can work for some people. "Whatever gets you through the night, is allright, is allright..." John Lennon. But the 12 Steps may not be the path for you. There are many who see the 12 Steppers as being a cult, or simply snake oil.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-snake_oil.html

There are other ways to achieve balance in your life. Don't discount them. And isn't that really your goal? Balance, serenity, spiritual growth?

Personally, I would be finding ways to minimize the trauma that the UMs are going through, and don't think for a minute that they aren't. If you aren't careful, they could end up fucked up for life. I know. Make them the central focus of your life. I dunno, it could be that in serving them, it takes you outside of yourself just enough so that you don't have a need to use intoxicants.

Or I could bwe completely wrong. Nobody has ever accused me of being an enlightened "Guru". Except once.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 1/29/2009 12:54:26 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 32

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 2:42:31 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

If he is doing to dump you at your weakest moment, is he really that great of a Master? Not in my book.

"Master" does not necessarily equal "martyr." There are times when staying is NOT the right thing to do - for anyone. There are more people involved here than just one guy who calls himself a Master and one girl who calls herself his submissive. There are kids involved, and when kids enter the picture, then all that other stuff goes by the wayside if they're in trouble.

This man is in the military. When he's deployed he needs to know that his children are safe and cared for. When he's home, he needs to know that his wife isn't undermining his career (and in the military, the actions of your spouse and children very much do impact your career - it is NOT a private matter when your commanding officer can reprimand you (not a small thing) or stop your career in its tracks.)

And frankly, living in an alcoholic household is a lesson in pure insanity. I'd say that maybe leaving isn't the mark of what you might consider a good Master, but it is the mark of a good father to care and protect his children. It is the mark of a good man to decide when enough is enough and have the courage to walk away - even if it's from the person he loves - in order to keep him and his family healthy. And frankly, sometimes, what's best for the person that's being walked away from is literally that - walking away. Take away everything that person was using to hide from themselves and give them the opportunity to finally come to terms with who they are and how they're choosing to live their life. And yes, to give them something to fight for.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 1/29/2009 2:44:38 AM >

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 33

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 3:18:07 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

If he is doing to dump you at your weakest moment, is he really that great of a Master? Not in my book.

"Master" does not necessarily equal "martyr." There are times when staying is NOT the right thing to do - for anyone. There are more people involved here than just one guy who calls himself a Master and one girl who calls herself his submissive. There are kids involved, and when kids enter the picture, then all that other stuff goes by the wayside if they're in trouble.

This man is in the military. When he's deployed he needs to know that his children are safe and cared for. When he's home, he needs to know that his wife isn't undermining his career (and in the military, the actions of your spouse and children very much do impact your career - it is NOT a private matter when your commanding officer can reprimand you (not a small thing) or stop your career in its tracks.)

And frankly, living in an alcoholic household is a lesson in pure insanity. I'd say that maybe leaving isn't the mark of what you might consider a good Master, but it is the mark of a good father to care and protect his children. It is the mark of a good man to decide when enough is enough and have the courage to walk away - even if it's from the person he loves - in order to keep him and his family healthy. And frankly, sometimes, what's best for the person that's being walked away from is literally that - walking away. Take away everything that person was using to hide from themselves and give them the opportunity to finally come to terms with who they are and how they're choosing to live their life. And yes, to give them something to fight for.

juliet

Sometimes we do have to walk away from people in our lives. If she wasn't seeking help I could understand that. But it seems to me that she is saying she is seeking counseling and trying to get herself together. I know as a Dominant I could never just walk away from my property when he was ill with a sickness such as this.

When would I walk away? If he refused counseling or if he just did not try. Some people see addictions such this as a character flaw instead of the illness that it truly is and that is sometimes why they walk away.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 34

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 4:41:38 AM

newbie62901

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http://www.aa.org/lang/en/meeting_finder.cfm?origpage=29 I am sending you the link to help you find a local aa meeting. I know what you are going through and its not a easy time for you your ex master or the rest of your family. If there was a magic wand that could be used on everyone the day they left rehab then we wouldnt have the need for aa na or any of the other support groups for family members. until that wand is found please follow the aa steps and find a meeting and get a new sponsor. Remember you beging sober makes for a happy mom and makes finding a new dom in the future better and easier and safer for you.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 35

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 5:20:58 AM

sunshinedreams

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Joined: 1/22/2008
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One thing that I have learned from my sobriety (10/1/97), is that if I don't REALLY WANT to stay sober, I won't. If I didn't really want it, I would not put in the effort required to change those things about myself that make it so easy to turn to the bottle. It does take work, but is worth it. No one can predict if you will ever be able to get your husband back, or if that would even be beneficial, but good things WILL happen if you get yourself right. If staying sober is important to you, you need to put some energy into it every day. Remember, it is a new way to live, for someone who is used to having a bottle when things get tough, so it takes some getting used to.

(in reply to newbie62901)

Post #: 36

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 7:56:28 AM

YoursMistress

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I would like to also suggest that your hubby participate in a program as well (e.g. AlAnon) so that he understands the language of recovery and has a place to talk and to listen, taking some of that burden off of you.

yours

_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to sunshinedreams)

Post #: 37

RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/29/2009 8:22:39 AM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mel12261981

Yes, i've gone dry, went through the 28 day rehabilitation program, did the sponser, AA meetings the whole nine, until i moved the kids back to the south to be with Him. Since then i have been having problems finding meetings, i am supposed to get some follow ups friday. i know He has no trust for me, but what i guess i am really trying to find out is what aspects of hurt i caused Him and the children to better understand the whole situation. Thank you for your response.

Congrats on taking that first step on the road to sobriety and remaining sober. I am wondering if you had considered carpooling with another who is in the program to attend meetings that are a bit further away from you? Many of my friends are recovering addicts and the common thread they all have is the fact that they need to work their recovery everyday (taking one day at a time).

By the sounds of it, you have identified the issue when you said he has no trust in you. I'd hazard to say that he no longer trusts you to be sober and be the person who he fell in love with and married. Some people just don't have the capabilities to remain strong and to keep giving physical/emotional/spiritual support to a partner with a drinking problem. That is not a fault in the person, it is just the way they are.

I have seen enough relationships crash and burn over the years due to the effects of alcoholism in one or both partners. How I see it, a recovering alcoholic has to work on themselves before working towards repairing a broken relationship, if there is any hope that the relationship is salvageable. Sometimes a relationship is past repairing though that is something which only you and you husband are able to determine between you. If your husband and offspring are willing, maybe they can attend an Al-Anon meeting so they can get support for the issues they are dealing with and to gain a better understanding of the demons you battles and the road you are walking to stay sober.

Wish you all the best in staying sober...one day at a time.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mel12261981)

Post #: 38

RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 1/29/2009 3:43:05 PM

MasterTslave

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If you seriously want him back as your Master, husband and friend...it will take time...stay clear of drinks and build up the trust again. Express to him that you want to take it one step at a time and express your love for him and your family...ask him to forgive you.

(in reply to alysia)

Post #: 39

RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 1/29/2009 4:21:00 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Sometimes we do have to walk away from people in our lives. If she wasn't seeking help I could understand that. But it seems to me that she is saying she is seeking counseling and trying to get herself together. I know as a Dominant I could never just walk away from my property when he was ill with a sickness such as this.

When would I walk away? If he refused counseling or if he just did not try. Some people see addictions such this as a character flaw instead of the illness that it truly is and that is sometimes why they walk away.

~Lashra

I'd be curious about how many times he asked, tried to enforce, even begged her to get help before she finally did. Divorce isn't something anyone plans in a split second and generally, long before the decision to divorce is made, there is some heavy duty soul searching and genuinely trying to stay. And by the time the decision is made, the person making the decision is already gone - even if only in his or her mind and spirit.

I know that in my situation, by the time I finally decided I was done, there'd been tremendous time and effort put in to trying to convince him to get help, seek counselling, go to AA, enter rehab, and anything else I could think of to save us from divorce. It was only when I finally came to the painful realization that I couldn't do it anymore and I'd separated myself enough from the pain in order to make a decision regarding this that he suddenly came up with the suggesting/plea that he'd go to counselling and join AA. By that time, as much as I cared for him, I was done believing him and done believing IN him. As much as I loved him, I came to understand that I simply couldn't do it anymore and that me "holding our marriage together" was actually doing our kids more damage than good. So, desite the fact that I wanted to believe that he'd go, I decided that no matter what, we were ending things and that if we were meant to be, we'd find our way back to each other eventually.

And we did. We're pretty good friends now. We'll never get back what we lost, but we have something that works for us. And sometimes, that has to be good enough.

Throughout these last 10 years, I have heard so many stories from the loved ones of alcoholics, and despite everyone's belief that their story is unique, I'm frequently amazed at how similar all of our stories really are.So, I'm curious as to how close this is to her situation. We are, afterall, only hearing one side.

juliet

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 40

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