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RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 2/4/2009 10:19:37 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

cheap cowardly way out of dealing with your life


Uhh, gotta say this for you, when you stop being quiet I can hear it clear to the other side of the encampment...

Morn, I agree with just about everything you say, but I also think you're going off on someone who, as far as I can see, never was equipped to handle any of the cards she was dealt. And, as you rightfully conclude, did not go get the help so abundantly available to her.

That is a very common and normal thing, patients end up in their own closed loop, and are literally unable to find the "off" button. It is right in front of them and they cannot see it. And in situations like the OP's, you have to ask if anybody in her environment could have noticed her running off the rails, and decided not to intervene.

True, alcoholism is not a disease, it is an addiction. Books have been written about the biological causes for substance abuse, so I don't need to go there, I think. I once attended an AA session, out of which I took away three conclusions:

a) I am not an alcoholic; b) most alcoholics fall off the wagon c) I don't understand native Virginia redneck lingo

Substance or behavioural addiction, however, are not under the control of their sufferers, and their substance abuse I would not classify as the "cowardly way out".  For one thing, it is not a way out. It is an escape mechanism, with only temporary relief, hence the repeat factor. I know that in the 40-odd years I drank I was powerless to stop. I maintained a career and was deployed to places where no coward would have survived. Yet not until a couple of years ago did a combination of circumstances arise where everything was in the right place, and I was able to see my doctor and discuss the problem with him, and I was able to stop. Chemical assisted, yes, but no AA, no shrink, I just stopped. And I do not to this day understand why, in the preceding 40 years, that did not, could not, happen.

The problem with addiction is really a simple one. You're right that somebody escapes into the bottle, or the line, or whatever. That you can criticize. They make that choice, at some point - even then, you have to ask yourself how come we have this very dangerous drug legally available. But once the occasion becomes a habit, and the habit becomes an addiction, you've gone past that window, the addiction now fuels itself, that is how our brains are wired, we function, on an animalistic level, in an award structure, we are all fix driven. Especially for women, this is very dangerous, as one of their potential awards is to get pregnant. Women's brains are wired for this - the mother of six with octuplets is a very stark reminder of how strong this instinct is. Husband away, where he does not have to take responsibility for anything, even his own life, wifey, kids, the bottle - see the pattern? For many in the military, the availability of a life where they have no responsibility, is the reason why they enlist, why they make the military their family.

And then you raise some interesting points about the military. The military is not, as you would have it, "a weird organisation governed by archaic rules and customs". That is society you just described. There is nothing weird about the military, it is an organization like many others, with its strengths and weaknesses, dichotomies, and unwieldly civil service mass.

Journalist Gwen Dwyer said it most eloquently, in an essay on the purpose of the military: Soldiers are paid to die. That's it, that is all there is - they don't defend anything, they don't solve anything, they don't create anything, they don't build anything, they are at the root nothing but a flesh-and-blood barrier between whatever has bad intentions toward us, and us. We pay them to get shot up and blown to bits.

Spouses and partners of service members don't always understand this, but for those that do, there aren't any training classes. I look at the yellow ribbons in my neighboorhood and then wait to see if they eventually get replaced with balloons, or with the Stars-and-Stripes at half staff. But for the families, there is a stark truth that many civilians are not at all prepared for: your loved one is supposed to come home in a box. There is a reverse percentile at work here - the soldier does not have an xx% chance of dying, s(he) has an xx% chance of surviving.

I tend to turn your argument around - and I can say I personally have certainly adjusted my circumstances to my risk. A soldier who finds a partner, starts a family, and then picks up his kit and goes to deployment, that soldier is selfish and irresponsible. I know that I only ever had a spouse, and that I squared away with her and updated my will and got my shots and did all that other good stuff, before going to deployment. I knew that it was my responsibility not to leave a dependent wifey and the kids sitting alone back home waiting to see if I would get back at all, and in what state. You just cannot ask a spouse or partner "if they're OK with it all", because they can not, and will not, imagine what is about to happen. They did not become your partner so they could lose you. They're thinking you will come home.

When you have this conversation where you get your affairs in order and everything sorted with your partner, you can say the words and see the recoil, the not-understanding, and the mental refusal to deal with what you yourself have come to terms with. Because: this is your choice, it is not, and never was, theirs. They have no tools to comprehend.

So I don't think anybody is doing anything wrong, least of all the OP - she did not have the tools. And her husband was not a trained psychologist.

Where I believe the military is at fault, is that it does not with honesty tackle this issue. It does not have a "death 101" training course, where the average soldier is fully acquainted with their future - before they sign up, after they have had basic training, you come to class and there is your body bag, there is your coffin, with your name and number on it. Where the soldier is actively discouraged to have a family, during their service. I don't know who ever had the idea it would be good to have your service members grounded in society, with a normal familial structure - it's not, that is a complete joke. There isn't anybody who can make me believe that the soldier with wife and two kids at home is well placed in an assault batallion, where s(he) has to go forward knowing what the odds are. It is not like that in any other profession, there is a risk, but not the certainty. And there isn't any way that the civilian spouse or partner can connect with that. So don't blame them, because their life is a crap shoot they didn't know they signed up for.

Off my soap box...

(in reply to Morniel)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 2/5/2009 7:32:15 PM   
MyWorldCT


Posts: 98
Joined: 1/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981

Hi, I'm T1981 and I'm a recovering alcoholic whose own relationship with her husband has seen many, many ups and downs as a result of being in recovery. *waves*

It sounds counterproductive, but when I was in in the beginning stages of recovery, I was constantly told to stop worrying about the damage I caused others and to worry more about the damage I caused to myself. Alcoholics - and submissives especially - can get very wrapped up in trying to figure out how to "make it better", all the while that search becomes nothing more than an escape in and of itself.

It's easier to focus on another's pain, not so easy to focus on our own pain. But that, for me, was a cop out. I had to come down to Earth and realize that the first person on my 9th step list was myself, and from then on out, work from there.

Sobriety is a gift, even when it feels like it will kill you. I found my submissiveness years after I got sober, but one way that may help to look at it is to remember that if sobriety is a gift, then it is one that you deserve to bestow upon yourself as well - that even we deserve that. If you must submit to something concerning your addiction, submitting to the power of recovery is a good place to start.

You're at a crucial point right now - fresh out of rehab, alone, and terrified. These seem like dark and desperate times, but it is now, right now, right here, that you are at your strongest and most able to drag yourself out of your depths. When I tried to think of doing things for myself, it was both harder and easier - but in the end, that is the only thing that kept me sober.

There are also tons of online AA meetings - I have used them in times when I couldn't get to a meeting. Just google and go and believe me, you'll feel better for it. I always have.



I think the statement above is one you should print and keep in your pocket.  In regards to the "how my Master feels", well I am divorced from a sub, who I have 2 spectacular children with.  I fell out of love with her, when she changed dramatically as a person.  I will not go into details, but you changed as a person as a result of your addiction.

Trust me... it is nearly impossible to win him back, but I did say "nearly", so keep riding that wagon forever.

Have you ever been on a plane and actually paid attention to the stewardesses during their safety briefing?  Have you ever noticed that they tell you to put the oxygen mask on YOU first, then on your CHILD.  Ever wonder why...?  If you die, then your young child may not be able to get his/her mask on and then die also.  If you can breathe, then you can help the child get the mask on.  Their bodies can go without oxygen longer than yours and they will revive quickly once the oxygen hits their system.

My point being... you need to take care of YOU, before you can take care of others.  Period.

< Message edited by MyWorldCT -- 2/5/2009 7:35:52 PM >

(in reply to T1981)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 2/6/2009 8:55:52 AM   
nepenthesub48


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/24/2006
Status: offline
Proud of you for aiming to become a former alcoholic. The chemical addiction to alcohol is only part of it. Your need to enhance your mood, your need to cover your pain, your need to be someone you naturally are not...are all a part, too. Think about the wonderful things in the world that you enjoy and can see, to counteract  any gravitation towards a bad and thus needy mood. Think about the causes that made you want to drink that you can attack and conquer. Think about how anyone like you that can take on a beast like alcohol addiction, is attractive to MANY people. You are going to become a wonderful woman that is going to start drawing good things to yourself...but don't think it is easy. It is not. But....it is true none the less, that you WILL get a very rewarding and wonderful life by stomping on the monster of this alcoholism.
Nepenthe

(in reply to alysia)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 2/6/2009 2:17:00 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mel12261981

Thank you all so very much, and so that we all know, i have since my last appointment, friday (well first that i was able to get since we moved back) i got the numbers and addresses of meetings for AA, NA and AlAnon.  Even having taken a weekend trip we have managed to get to a few meetings. 


Good... there is no excuses for not taking these steps if you are committed to make the choice every moment of every day to stay alcohol free.   If you accept excuses you are like water washing away at the rock... sooner or later the rock crumbles.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Mel12261981)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 2/24/2009 7:49:31 PM   
marysdream


Posts: 126
Joined: 5/31/2008
Status: offline
i am sure you know.... for your children  sake above anyone anyone get sober! that should be your first and only concern!
good luck
ree

(in reply to Mel12261981)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Off the wall question, probibly stupid - 2/25/2009 5:18:17 AM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline
If you did a 28 day rehab you have to have a big book...
 
I would encourage you....to read and read again and again Dr Silkworths opinion...memorize...it. Its inthe preface...
 
You may be one of the lucky ones who has a revelation of what is REALLY wrong with you and understand alcoholism has nothing to do with...alcohol...now
 
good....luck...

(in reply to Mel12261981)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 2/25/2009 9:09:56 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Save the ums first, then work on saving yourself, imo. 



I read until I found this, and then I had to stop.

DK, I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way.  Saving yourself is the only way to saving anyone else.  It sounds nuts, but it's really the way it works.

No one can do any good for anyone else, until they do good for themselves.  Yes, it sounds selfish, but it's also the path to selflessness.

There are members on these boards who have walked this path. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 5/27/2010 8:07:14 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
An update.

I just swapped some cmails with Mel.  She's doing well, and has stayed sober for 20 months now.  She moved to a better school district for her children, and is seeing her life blossom. 


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 5/27/2010 8:11:00 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
That's fantastic!  Congratulations to her. 

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Off the wall question, probably stupid - 5/27/2010 10:46:25 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
fantastic!

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 70
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