RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "financially successful"?

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 6:59:03 AM

4u2spoil

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You've got to do something when you have all that time on your hands. Wii bowling will also make your plams hairy if you're not careful.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 7:57:05 AM

OttersSwim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

You've got to do something when you have all that time on your hands. Wii bowling will also make your plams hairy if you're not careful.

Made me look...

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 8:03:18 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I love threads that make me LOL. Thx.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 8:48:32 AM

diaperedbaby

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I think it is kind of a trade off for some. Including myself. I am into infantilism and a host of other fetishes associated with it. I am keenly aware it isn't the cup of tea for many. So I bring a standard a living that isn't obtainable for many and in return I find someone that can share that interest.
Not the only bond to seek, but certainly a important one. Still have to click on many other fronts if it is to develop into something long term.
Just the ways of the world.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 9:02:59 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diaperedbaby

I think it is kind of a trade off for some. Including myself. I am into infantilism and a host of other fetishes associated with it. I am keenly aware it isn't the cup of tea for many. So I bring a standard a living that isn't obtainable for many and in return I find someone that can share that interest.
Not the only bond to seek, but certainly a important one. Still have to click on many other fronts if it is to develop into something long term.
Just the ways of the world.

Just a question. After having dated a woman with considerable cashola and all the issues that came with it, do you fear you will attract someone that is only "playing" to get the benefits rather than being honestly interested in you? And, does it matter to you either way? For some men, I know it doesn't, as long as they get what they want.

In my situation, I felt it was just a never ending battle. Everyone in her life was convinced her money was my only interest. The truth was that when we met, I didn't believe her story, fell for her anyway, then wished it would all just go away. The money, status, and responsibility was all too often like another unwanted person in the relationship.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 9:10:09 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Dude, if you can't even be bothered helping someone out for a wedding present... you're freaking cheap.

Yeah, thanks dude.

But let me explain dude, my objection was to people registering what gifts they deem appropriate, not to giving a gift.

OK dude?

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 9:12:47 AM

diaperedbaby

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That is always a possibility. Every relationship will always carry a degree of risk. It may be hard to tell initially, but usually one can tell over a period of time what someones real motivations are. If it winds up just being a financial interest, both people still walk away hopefully with something that they both benefited from.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 9:27:15 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

4u2spoil

Finally, we get to the root of your preference. You're cheap, and don't like other people telling you how to spend your money . To the point of not considering anyone else's preferences, even if your money is spent on them, and avoiding gift giving situations ("but Daddy, I wanted cake and ice cream." "Be happy you got a bag of cookies! Do you know how much cookies cost today?! And Happy Birthday kid, today's your day").

No, I would always consider someone's preferences in giving gifts.

You haven't outlined preferences, just demands.

Which is OK too, but don't try to disguise what you demand as a gift.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 9:41:42 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Yes, I very much do understand that you are not a "settler".
I've met those that won't settle many times before.

If they are lucky they find someone who will cater to them, beyond the bounds of all reality. Of course the caterer needs to be wealthy or those that won't settle will never be happy.

If they are not lucky, they will become the crazy lady down the street who lives with twenty cats and never leaves the house

Rule, your posts are usually so smart and sensible, but must tell you, that in this case, you are like a dog with a bone.
Something this lady has said, has gotten the baggage in you so riled up, that you are, in my opinion, neither seeing objectively, nor allowing it to let go, no matter how many ways she has expressed herself, and fairly respectfully, if you ask me. She's speaking about her preferences, and you're trying to shove your fantasies down her throat. What's up with that? Where is this coming from, given, I presume, she hasn't asked/forced you to become her slave or submissive. Or do you two have history, the rest of us need to be let in on? M

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 11:46:33 AM

4u2spoil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, I would always consider someone's preferences in giving gifts.

Unless their preference is stated. In which case you get pissed off and insult them for clearly stating a gift preference. Since you so vehemently oppose lists and registries, do you use tea leaves or telepathy to determine a person's preference? Crystal ball?

quote:

You haven't outlined preferences, just demands.

Which is OK too, but don't try to disguise what you demand as a gift.

Really? I thought I was immature and destined to become the cat spinster because of my preferences. My preference is for someone who's financially stable. You read: I will ignore you unless you're a Russian billionaire. Some of my other preferences are for a man who's tall. In your language: I will only accept an NBA player. I adore foot fetishists - pretty much the only one I strongly enjoy without any other kind of connection. Your translation: If you are not named Manolo Blahnik, don't bother.

For whatever reason, you've chosen to read some extreme view into my preferences. I don't know if maybe you were re-gifted something you gave to someone else, or resent the fact that you're unable to give someone what they want, or have some fear that doing something that someone asks of you when money is involved makes you a fool. My preferences aren't disguised as anything. I don't ask for what I want because I think the person buying it is foolish, stupid, a delivery service or anything other than someone who would like to make me happy by giving me something I want. Telling someone what I want/will enjoy/like does not make it any less of a gift.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 11:51:04 AM

4u2spoil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

Or do you two have history, the rest of us need to be let in on? M

He gave me a fruitcake for Christmas and hasn't gotten over my rejection of the gift. I said I wanted fruit and cake, then I get his package in the mail. So hard to find proper spoilers these days.

But no, no history prior to this thread.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 12:21:17 PM

Wickad

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(fast reply)

Greetings,

I have been attached to/seeing/ involved with/ somehow connected to ... my partner for 24 years (yes, it's rather complicated) and every year I give him a Christmas list. This list contains the things I want, how much they cost and where to buy them. Of course, he gets to choose which items to buy, but I've learned (through some really crappy holidays) that he doesn't pick up on hints and, though he tries, he really isn't that good at figuring out what I want. This way he doesn't have to stress about what to buy and I get the things I want rather than something I don't want.

I see nothing wrong with instructing someone as to the gift you want, if the person in question is determined to buy you something. That being said, I'm not fond of the idea of instructing people to buy you something if they don't want to or as a method of weening out the 'do-mes'. Of course, this is the way I do things and other women are perfectly capable of deciding how, when and what to do in their own relationships.

Wickad

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 12:31:50 PM

LaTigresse

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Most guys I know like being "guided" at gift buying times. It makes life alot easier, and more, simple for them.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 8:42:07 PM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
You could also be cheap.

I extend the gestures in question to those with whom I have an appropriate relationship, or who extend similar gestures to me at least in spirit. What I spend towards BDSM and what I have given in gifts in appropriate relationships negate your statement. So your theory that any man who opposes financial domination does so because he is cheap is incorrect. But perhaps I am overlooking something.

I have maintained that I extend such gestures based on the level of relationship and to those who extend similar gestures to me at least in spirit. What about this philosophy you find to be cheap?

All that said, thank you for making a post to clarify the true spirit behind your interactions with me. When I disagree with you, I give my reasoning. You simply take a swipe without giving reasoning of substance, which is what I expect to see here. I shall elaborate.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 2/4/2009 9:19:31 PM >

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 10:18:18 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
You could also be cheap.

I extend the gestures in question to those with whom I have an appropriate relationship, or who extend similar gestures to me at least in spirit. What I spend towards BDSM and what I have given in gifts in appropriate relationships negate your statement. So your theory that any man who opposes financial domination does so because he is cheap is incorrect. But perhaps I am overlooking something.

I have maintained that I extend such gestures based on the level of relationship and to those who extend similar gestures to me at least in spirit. What about this philosophy you find to be cheap?

All that said, thank you for making a post to clarify the true spirit behind your interactions with me. When I disagree with you, I give my reasoning. You simply take a swipe without giving reasoning of substance, which is what I expect to see here. I shall elaborate.

Cheers,

Sea

Giving with the expectation of fair return to me goes against the whole point of GIVING. I don't give holdiay gifts to only people who I expect a fair gift in return. I give because of the pleasure in givnig. When I court a man, I give gifts in the spirit of showing my affection and from the pleasure of the act of giving, not held back by the concern that I am not going to be given something back. That sounds cheap to me. The whole "what's in it for me" stuff - you color it up with careful wording by saying "similar gestures at least in spirit" but it's basically saying you don't want to give and get nothing back and you have to know what is in it for you.

A gift with an expectation is a resentment just waiting to happen. I never give a gift with conditions, it's bad for BOTH people.

Giving without the expectation of receiving back or being rewarded is about the pleasure in *giving* without the boundaries and guidelines of whether or not the relationship as a whole fits *your* criteria of being appropriate for being generous. The point of being *generous* is that it's often one sided in some manner - that's actually where I get the MOST joy in giving. I get a tremendous amount of pleasure giving money or gifts to my younger nieces or nephews despite their inability to give back in kind - I don't get bent out of shape if they forget to send a thank you card or don't get me a snazzy gift on my birthday - I enjoy giving for what it is. I get a tremendous amount of pleasure giving to friends on days that are not their birthdays. I get pleasure giving gifts anonymously or to people in need. That said, I can understand how some men also enjoy giving gifts without getting hung up on the equality of the relationship or measuring it against what they are getting back, in terms of romance or affection or just simply their dynamic.

Some men enjoy spoiling women and do it voluntarily and without the expectation of anything in return. Don't think that they are being taken advantage of. My best girlfriend, not kinky, has a man who will not let her lift a finger and is constantly buying her all kinds of things she doesn't want or need or ask for. She adores being spoiled and feels like a princess. They have no bdsm dynamic. He just LOVES to give and she LOVES to receive. It works for them. If she was in a relationship with a guy who had your philosophy, she'd consider it cheap.

In the vanilla world there are guys that take a lady out on a first date and perhaps spend a bit of money and they enjoy doing that -they like pampering, spoiling, making her feel really treated. There are guys who have a strict rule of going dutch on a first date because they think it's not appropriate or right for him to be spending that kind of money on a girl until they were romantic and she was giving back (emotionally, romantically, not necessarily sexually). When my girlfriend used to get taken out by guys in column b, she'd tell me how "cheap" they were and they would not get a second date. They, of course, did not see themselves as cheap. They saw themselves as practical. Maybe they felt they'd spoil a woman AFTER they had some "equal courting" going on. Some of these guys did things liek talk to her about how much money they had or how they treated friends of women as if to say "This can be yours but NOT yet, because I don't want you to take my money and gifts for granted, so just wait and find out!" -- seriously. Very lame.

I can't have an opinion either way as I was always the one to pay for dates, I like to be the pursuer. But on the other end, when I wanted to take a guy out, I spent a fair amount of coin or put a fair mount of thought and effort into it. I didn't hold back just because I wanted to wait and see if it panned out before I invested myself. It's my nature to be generous. The FUN is in being generous. Not in only doing something based on what I want back.

Your POV to me sounds cheap. That's all I'm saying.
Akasha

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/4/2009 11:53:13 PM

undergroundsea

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For perspective, the context of my statements has been profiles that focus on receiving gifts before a relationship has even begun.

I said and still say:

"I extend the gestures in question to those with whom I have an appropriate relationship, or who extend similar gestures to me at least in spirit."

I consider established positive relationships with family, friends and romantic partners appropriate relationships. I see the gesture of the gift to be commensurate to the relationship. I have bought my mother several plane tickets for overseas travel to allow her to escape allergy season which aggravates her asthma. I do not envision myself gifting a similar plane ticket to a colleague or someone I am casually dating. The wedding gifts I have given when I have been part of the wedding have reflected that closer relationship in comparison to those that were not as close. The gift I would give to a woman I have been dating for two weeks would be different than to one whom I have been dating a year. I do not consider a scenario where one is writing an introductory letter to be a relationship, much less an appropriate relationship. And when a relationship has begun, the type of gift I would give would be similar to what might be considered appropriate in a regular courtship based on the level of the relationship.

How much I spend on a date and the like depends on how I feel and not by a sense of duty. And it is not a black or white matter (spend nothing at first until ascertaining that the relationship is ace) but grey. This is what I mean when I make a reference to an appropriate relationship, and that what I give is consistent with the level of the relationship.

At a difficult time with my business, I did not tell my sister how tough things were and instead of taking a large order that would have helped, I did the best I could at the time and gave her the order at cost. I did so because of how I feel about her and because I know she would do the same for me in similar circumstances--she reciprocates the sincerity or the spirit the gift represents. For someone else whom I would not expect to give me as much sincerity, I would not have done to the same extent.

This is what I mean when I make reference to a reciprocation at least in spirit.

I consider my BDSM relationships similar to other social and romantic relationships. I find it odd to order a pair of shoes (or anything off a wishlist for that matter) to accompany or upon receiving a response to an introduction letter I wrote. I have declined when such a demand was made. When my birthday approaches, I don't tell someone I have just met or random strangers that my birthday is approaching and ask them what they will get me off my wishlist. I find this behavior odd at either end of it.

However much of myself I give--whether it is through gifts, time, sincerity--is related to my perception of how much of the other person--whether it is through gifts, time, sincerity--I will get in return. When I have had cases where I have given much to a domme whom I was getting to know and then saw gestures that were insincere or out of proportion, it affected how much of myself I then wanted to give.

When someone gives me a gift, I try to reciprocate the gesture at a future time. Sure, holiday gifts are given without knowing whether one will get one. But giving the gift represents a courtesy or gesture. If one gives a gift to another who does not reciprocate the gesture or energy through a gift or some other means, one will likely eventually stop doing it.

If your girlfriend did not go on a second date because she otherwise did not have a good date and because they did not pay for her, fair enough. If she otherwise had a good date and did not go on a second date because they did not pay for her, then I disagree with her philosophy.

I do not shower people with gifts. Maybe it is a question of varying levels of generosity. But someone who is not as generous as you are is not necessarily cheap. And I think there may be an issue of varying levels of being guarded. Based on what you know about your environment, you might be more guarded than I am about being sexually used. You might be less open about a conversation when approached by a stranger in a bar, or with one with whom you have just begun a conversation. Based on what I know about my environment, I expect I am more guarded than you are about being financially used. I expect your reaction to a profile that has a lists of sexual wants is different from what mine might be. I expect my reaction to a profile that has a list of material wants is different from what yours might be.

Your POV about my POV sounds incorrect to me. That's all I am saying.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 2/5/2009 12:42:59 AM >

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/5/2009 12:19:54 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Most guys I know like being "guided" at gift buying times. It makes life alot easier, and more, simple for them.

Most guys I know as well. So much so, that I get a fair amount of stress from cousins and brothers who ask me to pick out or help find the right gift for their friends who are girls or siblings. M

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/5/2009 1:02:46 AM

undergroundsea

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When I make reference to finding a wish list odd, it is not about help towards identifying a gift, but to the extent the wishlist is a demand for gifts.

If it was such an ordinary phenomenon that is part of the human gift giving spirit, it would be prevalent in all dynamics and not just Fm.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/5/2009 4:45:50 AM

4u2spoil

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For me, this is why I've responded so often in this thread. A desire to be spoiled or receive gifts isn't the same as financial domination. I honestly don't have the patience or personality for financial domination and isn't something I pursue. I do want someone who enjoys giving, and has the means to do so. And without labeling anything right or wrong, it's just not the same as financial domination.

I enjoy giving as well, and can understand not wanting to be taken advantage of in that area. But to say that every person who's requested a gift or enjoyed some level of giving from me has been trying to financially dominate me wouldn't be correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

So your theory that any man who opposes financial domination does so because he is cheap is incorrect.

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RE: Why is it that most Dommes want subs that are "... - 2/5/2009 4:56:38 AM

4u2spoil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

In the vanilla world there are guys that take a lady out on a first date and perhaps spend a bit of money and they enjoy doing that -they like pampering, spoiling, making her feel really treated. There are guys who have a strict rule of going dutch on a first date because they think it's not appropriate or right for him to be spending that kind of money on a girl until they were romantic and she was giving back (emotionally, romantically, not necessarily sexually). When my girlfriend used to get taken out by guys in column b, she'd tell me how "cheap" they were and they would not get a second date. They, of course, did not see themselves as cheap. They saw themselves as practical. Maybe they felt they'd spoil a woman AFTER they had some "equal courting" going on. Some of these guys did things liek talk to her about how much money they had or how they treated friends of women as if to say "This can be yours but NOT yet, because I don't want you to take my money and gifts for granted, so just wait and find out!" -- seriously. Very lame.

On any date - vanilla or otherwise - I take it as the guy not being interested if he doesn't at least offer to treat (if I'm interested I let him, if I'm not I'll go dutch). I had a few dates with column B guys when I was younger, and it always felt like there was some kind of test to get a reward. I'm not a dog to be trained and that's what it felt like.

Edited to add: complete with the "I just bought some real estate, look at my luxury car, I'm doing really well for myself, I'll even let you drive me in the luxury car: yes, pull right into the KFC drivethrough window. Do you have $5?"

< Message edited by 4u2spoil -- 2/5/2009 5:08:34 AM >

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