RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad.

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IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 3:24:43 PM)
quote: why should the student who doesn't want to be school anyway have to be in school? because it's the law, and as parents and responsible adults it's our job to see to it that children are educated......notice I did not say it was the parents job.....I said it's OUR job quote: Are you expecting the school to babysit your children for you? I don't expect anything from a school except that they provide my kids with the best education that is possible. Just because I happen to work while she is there does not mean that I am passing off my parenting to them. On that same note though, I do expect them to play the role of MENTOR while I am not there. I expect that if she has a problem while at school, that she will go and discuss it with them, and that it will be resolved, I do expect that if she becomes sick while there, they will take the approiate measures that are called for, I do expect her to be SAFE in that environment; in all ways, mentally, physically, and emotionally. I have a hard time understanding why anyone who professes to wanting to become a teacher and help guide the young of the country would make such a statement.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 3:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samwise213 Hmmm... Are there any other educators who wish to speak up? Yes. My opinion on out of school suspension is above, but I'll still answer your questions. I am a susbstitute teacher for Tippecanoe County Public Schools. I teach anywhere from first to twelfth grade. I have also seen the effects of Lafayette Catholic Schools firsthand from first to tenth grade. quote: Playing devil's advocate for a minute, why should the student who doesn't want to be school anyway have to be in school? Are you expecting the school to babysit your children for you? That's not responsible parenting, either... Honestly, the majority of students don't want to be at school. Of course a child would rather be hanging out with friends, playing games, or sleeping. We can't just let them all out. It has to stop somewhere. So, yes, students should be made to go to school. It's a mandatory public institution, not a babysitter. Expecting your children to attend school and do their best isn't a cry for someone else to take your kids for a while. It can't honestly be expected that a parent take a day off work every time their kid doesn't turn in their homework. Of course there are a select few parents who do use the school system as a simple babysitting service. There is not much that can be done about that minority. quote: I actually feel optimistic about going into education right now. I have this sense that some kind of major change is coming, to make things better... I hope I can be a part of making things better, rather than trying to maintain the status quo. I agree. That is why I entered into the educational field. quote: I feel like part of the problems is this attempt to say that all people are equal. It's like the line from The Incredibles: "When everybody is super, nobody is." Yes, all people should have the same rights. However, there is no such thing as an even playing field for life. That's the problem with Astrology - just because people are born in the same place as the same time, doesn't mean their lives are going to be exactly the same... All people are equal, if you want to get technical. We, however, are not all equal in the same fields. We are all different. Like I said in my earlier posts, it seems to be more highschools than middle or elementary schools that are botching the job. In the highschools I've worked at I've noticed a trend of treating the students like they were three years old. This doesn't make them want to try hard academically, and it certainly doesn't nurture a healthy educational environment. If they feel they can't be taken seriously many children, especially teenagers, will lash out with words and actions, leading to out of school suspension. This in turn leads to kids thinking, "Well, cool. I'm out of class. They treat me like crap anyway, so rock on." That leads to more inappropriate action on the part of the student, which becomes a vicious cycle that many times ends in the worst of all possibilities: expulsion. Out of school suspension (if used for other than severe cases) generally shows a lack of effort on behalf of administrators and teachers. It's basically like saying, "I just don't feel like dealing with this. Let's hand it to the parents." Parents who can't necessarily be there while their children should be in school. Of course it doesn't help that class sizes, at least in my county, are roughly double what they should be. I walk into a third grade classroom and I have an average of twenty-five students. I've had more and less, but that is the norm. The optimum working class number for that age group is twelve. How can a teacher devote the individual time that needs to be spent with each student when their class has swollen to double the proportions it takes to make a class run smoothly? If we can't give the children the attention they need, they are more likely to drop away from enjoyment of school, academic success and overall attendance. So where does that put us? Is it the parents' fault? Yes. Is it the teachers' fault? Yes. Is it the administrators' fault? Yes. Is it the government's fault? Yes. Does anyone have any workable ways to fix it? I have no idea.

MHOO314 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 3:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: When my neighbors friends kid got suspended they made james chop wood with a hand ax allday OWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe lol talk about hurting...now that's one hell of a punishment lol THAT is responsible parenting!

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 3:34:06 PM)
My room had tons of books tons of toys and a nice cushy bed veronica. being sent to my room wasn;'t really a punishment except when I was younger I couldn't stand being cloistered in one area

girl4you2 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 3:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat I agree that the schools are getting dumber. But aren't they just giving us what we, as a country want? As a nation, we seem to be glorifying ignorance and placing less value on knowledge. Why do we need a highly educated population if we're all just flipping burgers for minimum wage? Bob i remember when i was in a public <gasp> high school eons ago, and my boyfriend was suspended for something ridiculous (he was brilliant and aced his classes) and when the time was up, they then suspended him for 3 days more for having hair too long. basically he just said, "yippie" and went surfing. we could be suspended for our hair, girls coudn't wear jeans (couldn't even wear "pantsuits" until 9th grade and we got the rules changed via protest), skirts couldn't be too short, etc. the school system also didn't go with the "no child left behind" or "teach the test" bs. if you chose to not study and failed american lit, you got to spend your summer trying again. if you again chose to not pass, they gave you an extra year to meet new friends. same thing with american history. you didn't just get passed along. if you failed, you failed. and we had a much lower drop out rate than here in so calif now. the schools do a great job of what they were set up to do in the 40s; they teach mediocrity and they do it well. a few things happened to bring that about. besides mass moves to urban areas and the ensuing problems that caused and the advent of television there continued a behavior from earlier times. people married and had families. in september 1951, 4.2 million children came to schools that were unequipped for 5 times the number of children who had arrived the year before. educators threw together makeshift solutions overnight to adapt to the crisis. teacher tenure dropped as did the dropout rate of students. students who did better with a dialogue and collaboration system, or those who did better listening and speaking than reading or writing, or those with different learning styeles/rates began to falter. the classrooms went from interdependent, interactive to teacher dependent. all chronological ages received the same work, whether they were ready or not; it was based upon what the teacher presented. amazingly, research has shown that dialogue and collaboration form the foundations for moral and ethical development, critical thinking, and mature judgment. the lack thereof hits at the bonds of closeness, trust, dignity and respect. these things are important to the foundation of society as a whole, just as they should be in relationships. and we wonder why johnny can't read....

krys -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 4:39:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito I believe the reasoning is that sometimes snipers will call in bomb threats so that the building is evacuated. As everyone stands outside the sniper(s) picks them off. By evacuating you make everyone more vulnerable while they are out in the open. Gotta wonder who does these threat assessments. A sniper can wound or kill X number of students. Better to lock them in a building we think has a bomb in it, which would result in the death and wounding of ALL the students.

coyoteugly89 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 5:56:10 PM)
I'm currently an education major and I do sub at my local ISD. Saddly everyone from teachers to parents have let their children down. When a 13 yr old is having twins, when a 13 yr old can threaten a teacher's life four times, when a 14 yr old get hauled off campus in hand cuffs, I honestly have to wonder if there is anything that can be done. When a 13 yr old tells a teacher to fuck off and their parent comes in asking what the fuck is wrong, you know that child is lost. Teaching to the test is killing the students of today. I haven't changed my major because I know first hand that a great teacher can make a difference for his/her students. The bleeding hearts out there are the ones who have screwed up the education system. They have taken the control of the classroom out of the teachers hands and put it into the students hands. When I was in school I knew what indefinatly meant by the 4th grade; however, there are 8th graders that don't know the meaning of that word or can write a proper sentence. Kids have it way to easy these days because you have three types of parents- hands off parenting, non-parenting, and active parents. A spanking isn't going to kill a child. Telling a child to go to bed at his/her bedtime isn't going to kill a child. Sitting down with a child and going over homework isn't going to kill a child. Going to a parent teacher conference and asking what can I do to help my child's grades instead of jumping on the teacher and assuming it's the teacher's fault is just bad form. Children aren't perfect and shouldn't be veiwed as such. When my 15 yr daughter gave me a hug infront of students and the office workers at her high school, I knew I was doing a good job. Ok I'm getting off my soap box, sorry this is rather long winded.

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/12/2006 6:45:59 PM)
very nicely said coyoteugly89, very nicely said

girl4you2 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 3:09:43 AM)
ed. quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 I'm currently an education major and I do sub at my local ISD. Saddly everyone from teachers to parents have let their children down. Teaching to the test is killing the students of today. add society in general to that list and you're getting there. it's not a this or that issue; it's multifaceted. teaching the tests does not one any good but schools (and thereby teachers). quote: ... I know first hand that a great teacher can make a difference for his/her students. The bleeding hearts out there are the ones who have screwed up the education system. When I was in school I knew what indefinatly meant by the 4th grade; however, there are 8th graders that don't know the meaning of that word or can write a proper sentence. yes, a good teacher can make a difference. it's not the bleeding hearts who have screwed up the system, however, and you may wish to proofread a bit here. there is no such word as "indefinatly;" the latter part of that sentence doesn't make sense in the way you wrote it. quote: Kids have it way to easy these days to, too, and two. very common usages that should be known by third grade. easy typo, but in a post like this, it matters a bit, as it's not clear if it's a typo or not. quote: because you have three types of parents- hands off parenting, non-parenting, and active parents. A spanking isn't going to kill a child. Telling a child to go to bed at his/her bedtime isn't going to kill a child. Sitting down with a child and going over homework isn't going to kill a child. Going to a parent teacher conference and asking what can I do to help my child's grades instead of jumping on the teacher and assuming it's the teacher's fault is just bad form. Children aren't perfect and shouldn't be veiwed as such. while spanking won't kill children, logical consequences teach them more than a spanking will (see works by dreikurs, kohn, and others). establishing consequences for failure to mantain an agreed to bedtime should also be given. having the child first attempt the homework on his/her own and then having them ask you thoughtful questions as to what part they found challenging goes a lot further than sitting beside them and not letting them have a chance to try. sometimes even letting them fail can teach them a great deal. going to a conference with open minds of parent(s) and teacher ensure the most success. the school system is messed up just as the health care system is; i'm not sure which is in the lead. kids and adults aren't perfect, but we all can learn. it just takes time, effort on all parts, and respect. we can all attend school board meetings as well as have a say as to who gets elected to the board. awareness and communication are paramount. i do wish you well in your endeavor. it sounds like your heart is in the right place; please don't take my notes as criticism. i would recommend that you pick up along the way positive discipline by nelson, ed.d., positive discipline in the classroom by nelson, lott & glenn, and punished by rewards: the trouble with gold stars, incentive plans, a's, praise, and other bribes by kohn.

coyoteugly89 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 6:00:32 AM)
Ok girl4you2, I wasn't aware that I was going to have to watch my spelling in my post but just for you I'm going to correct my errors. Firstly, I am a bad speller and indefinitely means an unknown length of time. An 8th grade student can not write a proper sentence because grammar isn't high on the mastery last. Kids have it too easy these days. I am well aware of what to, too, and two mean. As for sitting down with your child and helping his/her with homework means allowing the child to work out the problems first and then pointing him/her in the right direction, not giving him/her the answer. A spanking is the last means of punishment, but sometimes one or two pats on the backside with a hand is called for, not reaching for the belt every time. You seem to have missed the point of my post; however, I do thank you for pointing out very common errors that are made by everyone.

DesertRat -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 7:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 Ok girl4you2, I wasn't aware that I was going to have to watch my spelling in my post but just for you I'm going to correct my errors. Firstly, I am a bad speller and indefinitely means an unknown length of time. An 8th grade student can not write a proper sentence because grammar isn't high on the mastery last. Kids have it too easy these days. I am well aware of what to, too, and two mean. As for sitting down with your child and helping his/her with homework means allowing the child to work out the problems first and then pointing him/her in the right direction, not giving him/her the answer. A spanking is the last means of punishment, but sometimes one or two pats on the backside with a hand is called for, not reaching for the belt every time. You seem to have missed the point of my post; however, I do thank you for pointing out very common errors that are made by everyone. Actually, as an education major, you should be embarrassed by your errors. If you're not, then you're a great example of part of the problem. I want to echo a possibly overlooked statement made much earlier in this thread by Lucky Albatross: This lack of direction...this halfassed attitude toward education is NOT making it too easy on kids. When I was in school (public school), I knew I was required to be there. I knew what was expected of me while was there, and I knew what would happen if I didn't do what I was supposed to do. I received guidance and mentoring. I was expected to make an effort, and when I needed help, I got it. Now THAT is what I consider 'having it easy' and, in my opinion, it's a good thing. A lot of kids today are faced with parents and teachers who are only minimally involved, so they're left to dope things out for themselves. I'm glad I didn't have to do that as a kid; I found I got plenty of that once I was out in the world. Bob

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 8:04:05 AM)
quote: When I was in school (public school), I knew I was required to be there. I knew what was expected of me while was there, and I knew what would happen if I didn't do what I was supposed to do. I received guidance and mentoring. I was expected to make an effort, and when I needed help, I got it. Now THAT is what I consider 'having it easy' and, in my opinion, it's a good thing. I agree. Same with me. When I was in school, yes public also...I knew what was expected of me, and what happened when I did not follow through with that. I believe it's called FAILING and repeating. /gasp Oh my, such a concept for kids of today. To not turn in work, fail a class and have to repeat it. What is the world coming to? Yes I am very sarcastic this morning. Personally, I am ashamed that our school system is in such a shambles. And not just our public schools, the private schools are just as bad in some cases. It used to be that parents, teachers and the kids all worked together to accomplish one thing...educating our young people. Now, its all about pointing fingers and placing blame. /shakes head sadly

coyoteugly89 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 8:41:02 AM)
DesertRat As an education major, the errors I made are very common. Alot of those common errors happen when I get on a roll and just let my thoughts flow and that's exactly what happen. An education major means I have yet to graduate. When I teach, I tell my students, at both the elem and college level, I'm not perfect. I do make mistakes and if I misspell a word then correct me. I will use a dictionary infront of my students. I am human. I thought the point of these boards was to put out opinions and/or create debate about a subject. I wasn't aware that common errors were going to get me slammed.

DesertRat -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 9:34:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: When I was in school (public school), I knew I was required to be there. I knew what was expected of me while was there, and I knew what would happen if I didn't do what I was supposed to do. I received guidance and mentoring. I was expected to make an effort, and when I needed help, I got it. Now THAT is what I consider 'having it easy' and, in my opinion, it's a good thing. I agree. Same with me. When I was in school, yes public also...I knew what was expected of me, and what happened when I did not follow through with that. I believe it's called FAILING and repeating. /gasp Oh my, such a concept for kids of today. To not turn in work, fail a class and have to repeat it. What is the world coming to? Yes I am very sarcastic this morning. Personally, I am ashamed that our school system is in such a shambles. And not just our public schools, the private schools are just as bad in some cases. It used to be that parents, teachers and the kids all worked together to accomplish one thing...educating our young people. Now, its all about pointing fingers and placing blame. /shakes head sadly Yes, I actually remember kids failing and having to repeat a grade level. They lived. My school also had "Honors" level courses for students who were ready to take on more of a challenge. A student could always take regular biology, chemistry, physics, etc. if the honors level was too much. The fact that we had honors level courses was not viewed as being elitist. I had an ancient history teacher who told us he was not going to teach us dates, but was going to focus on concepts. Guess what? We ended up learing the dates, too. No sweat. The dates were just plugged into the greater concepts rather than being taught as answers to test questions. We lost points for poor grammar and spelling, too. We have schools around here that don't even have a class in "Science", let alone subjects like Physics, Astronomy, or Chemistry. The parents are cool with it; the schools are giving them what they want. Bob

DesertRat -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 9:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 DesertRat As an education major, the errors I made are very common. Alot of those common errors happen when I get on a roll and just let my thoughts flow and that's exactly what happen. An education major means I have yet to graduate. When I teach, I tell my students, at both the elem and college level, I'm not perfect. I do make mistakes and if I misspell a word then correct me. I will use a dictionary infront of my students. I am human. I thought the point of these boards was to put out opinions and/or create debate about a subject. I wasn't aware that common errors were going to get me slammed. Sorry, but in a thread discussing the quality of education, an education major should expect to be chided for poor spelling. The common errors to which you refer are indeed common, but they are not universal. On this board I see plenty (maybe even 'alot' hehehe) of people using proper grammar and spelling correctly. I'm human, too, so I make mistakes but if I get carried away with that excuse, it can smoothly transition into incompetence. Bob

coyoteugly89 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 11:46:43 AM)
So you're saying because I'm an education major that I'm not allowed to make simple mistakes? That line of thinking is bull. All I wanted to do was add my two cents about this thread and I get slamed for simple common errors that are made daily. You and girl4you2 are perfect examples of why I don't like to post. The message gets lost after the nit picking. I shouldn't be held to a higher standar on a public board such as this one, the higher standar comes when I am infront of my students. It is there where I judge myself harsher than anyone on this planet. It is there where I have to try to reach students that may already be too jaded by system. Its there where I have to show the students that they are better than what society says and they can go further than they believe they can. The class room is where I have to reach an unspoken bar set by students, parents, admin, and society. I have already gone beyond that bar because I got a student to read a Harry Potter book. You may think big, fat, hairy deal but when this student was known for being a trouble maker and have a seat waiting for him in I.S.S., I would say it is a big deal. This student stopped getting into trouble and started to bring his grades up. He thanked me. So don't jump over a person for typos no matter what he/she does because he/she will jump back.

KatyLied -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 12:08:39 PM)
quote: I have already gone beyond that bar because I got a student to read a Harry Potter book Geez, I'd hoped teachers were aiming just a bit higher than that.

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 12:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 So you're saying because I'm an education major that I'm not allowed to make simple mistakes? That line of thinking is bull. All I wanted to do was add my two cents about this thread and I get slamed for simple common errors that are made daily. You and girl4you2 are perfect examples of why I don't like to post. The message gets lost after the nit picking. I shouldn't be held to a higher standar on a public board such as this one, the higher standar comes when I am infront of my students. It is there where I judge myself harsher than anyone on this planet. It is there where I have to try to reach students that may already be too jaded by system. Its there where I have to show the students that they are better than what society says and they can go further than they believe they can. The class room is where I have to reach an unspoken bar set by students, parents, admin, and society. I have already gone beyond that bar because I got a student to read a Harry Potter book. You may think big, fat, hairy deal but when this student was known for being a trouble maker and have a seat waiting for him in I.S.S., I would say it is a big deal. This student stopped getting into trouble and started to bring his grades up. He thanked me. So don't jump over a person for typos no matter what he/she does because he/she will jump back. Oh please, let's not get into a 'personal attack' frenzy. If you can't take some simple critism, then I agree wholeheartedly...don't fucking post anything.

coyoteugly89 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 12:35:18 PM)
Considering this student wouldn't pick up a comic book and was failing every single subject in the 8th grade, I would say I did something pretty damn amazing. Here again the message of this entire thread is lost due to nit picking. A wise person once said before you judge someone, you should walk a mile and a day in his/her shoes. Being a sub teacher is damn hard. There is a complete lack of respect for this person. Think back when you were in school and saw a sub instead of your regular teacher. It was no picnic then nor is it now. Sub teachers have a very hard job. If you think it's a cake walk, then go down to your local school and sign up. Spend one month as a sub teacher and you will see just how hard subs have it and just how bad students can really be. I don't sub because I have to or because I like to, I sub because I want to. I'm an ed major because I want to be a teacher. There is nothing on this planet that can compare to the sight of a student that honestly understands what you're teaching. You can see that the student owns the knowledge. The student isn't renting it just for the test but owning it for the rest of his/her life. Being a teacher isn't about the pay, paper work, meetings, or tests. Being a teacher is about the students. It's knowing that at the end of the day you have reached that hard ass or class clown. When you wonder just how to reach that unreachable student and you actually do. It's about going that extra step and sticking by your word. Only someone that has actually done those things understands. I've done those things and I understand, do you? Will you or are you of the mind set "It's not my problem, it's not my child"?

MsIncognito -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 12:54:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: krys Gotta wonder who does these threat assessments. A sniper can wound or kill X number of students. Better to lock them in a building we think has a bomb in it, which would result in the death and wounding of ALL the students. I don't know who does the assessments and/or comes up with the rules but I think statistics are cold comfort to the families who's kids were pinged off by a sniper because the school was evacuated. It's also cold comfort to school boards who are being sued by said families for placing their children in harm's way. I don't think there is a win/win solution to these kinds of situations.

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