RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad.

RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (Full Version)

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samwise213 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 1:06:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 As far as babysitting for My child, I never expected that, what I DID expect (and we attended public and private schools in 2 states ( one of which was Catholic)) was respect for My intelligent child, protection for her while I entrusted her to their care and teachers who could read, write and speak better than she could! I have home schooled since 7th grade, she stands in the top 5% in the state and the top 10% of the nation, she tutors gifted children at an elementary school, grooms at a horse farm. Her schedule now covers a span of 13 courses and she communicates beautifully with all types of people---and if anyone thinks she is missing socialization she is--she is missing regular evacuation for bomb scares, misses being beaten up on the bus or at school, misses having to fit in by peer fear, and misses changing schools every year to please the politicians---Someone once told Me no school would ever be good enough for her, you're damn right! yeah I'm a tad passionate too-- I can completely agree with that. Students need to be pushed to find what their limits are (hey, that sound interesting... Where have I heard that, recently...) I wish (and hope that someday) all schools can do for every student what you have done for your child. I'd like to point out that part of what made it work was that the parent was working with the teacher there (it helps that the parent was the teacher

samwise213 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 1:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist I don't expect anything from a school except that they provide my kids with the best education that is possible. Just because I happen to work while she is there does not mean that I am passing off my parenting to them. On that same note though, I do expect them to play the role of MENTOR while I am not there. I expect that if she has a problem while at school, that she will go and discuss it with them, and that it will be resolved, I do expect that if she becomes sick while there, they will take the approiate measures that are called for, I do expect her to be SAFE in that environment; in all ways, mentally, physically, and emotionally. I agree. It is OUR job, and the teacher should play the role of a mentor. quote: I have a hard time understanding why anyone who professes to wanting to become a teacher and help guide the young of the country would make such a statement. I did say I was playing devils advocate. I never said that I believed that... I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear...

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 1:29:50 PM)
quote: I did say I was playing devils advocate. I never said that I believed that... I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear... LOL I stand corrected, and humbly apologize for my rash words [&:]

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 1:37:37 PM)
quote: I don't know who does the assessments and/or comes up with the rules but I think statistics are cold comfort to the families who's kids were pinged off by a sniper because the school was evacuated. It's also cold comfort to school boards who are being sued by said families for placing their children in harm's way. I don't think there is a win/win solution to these kinds of situations. Unfortunatly, I do agree with you here MsIncognito. The 'how to handle' a situation like that is a hard decision for any adult to make. And then to make that decision based on what you ( meaning the officials in charge) think is right, only to have the parents and the 'outside' world tell you it's wrong...like you said, no matter what decision is made, there are some who will view it as wrong.

IrishMist -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 1:39:54 PM)
Umm, sorry Fangs, I know we kind of hijacked the thread from what you originally posted...it's just ....its such a passionate subject with so many facets. [:o]

LaMalinche -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 4:36:45 PM)
Coyoteugly69, Well, yes, you should be held to a higher standard. I hold myself to one. While we do live in a post-literate society, when it comes to boards such as these, your English and grammar DO lend themselves to how seriously to take your posts. I, myself, cannot spell well. To compensate for that lack I use "spell check." I realize, as do others, that at times our thoughts are faster than our fingers can type. That is why schools should (and do in my experience) teach proofreading. There is also an "edit" option. Here is the deal, if you are going to chime in as an expert because you are an education major, than you yourself need to be above reproach. You can replace "education major" with any other field, and the advice holds true. In this case, as an education major, you showed a lack of expertise in the field with a poorly written post. So, you got picked on. Learn from the experience, and move on. And no, getting a child to read one book and have a temporary raise in grades is not enough. I want to see how the kid is benefiting in a few years before I give you all the kudos. What else was going on in his/her life? LaMalinche ------------------------------------------------------------ "Education would be much more effective if its purpose were to ensure that by the time they leave school every student should know how much they don't know, and be imbued with a lifelong desire to know it." -Sir William Haley

IceyOne -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 6:12:29 PM)
quote: I swear, how much dumber can our public school system get? Believe me, it will get worse before it gets better. Our educational system has lost its vision, and unless some drastic measures are taken, and soon, they will never reclaim it.

krikket -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 8:00:55 PM)
When my middle unmentionable (who is now so responsible it's almost scarey..lol) was in high school he was caught skipping school. His "punishment" was to be suspended for 3 days. When i questioned the reason behind this the school admin couldn't give me one..lol. Next time his punishment was to spend all day in study hall, for 3 days. i wasn't sure that was a whole lot better, but it beat grounding him (and therefore me) cuz he couldn't go school for 3 days..lol. Go figure...amazing the logic that is used in our schools... although i think my folks said the same about me..lol.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 8:34:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 Considering this student wouldn't pick up a comic book and was failing every single subject in the 8th grade, I would say I did something pretty damn amazing. Indeed you did. It is an impressive act to get a problem child (particularly one with reading difficulties) to read a four hundred page book. While I'm replying, I'd like to say that I typically don't chime in during a gramatical war unless it's to make a joke, but I'm going to put my two cents in here. Of course, if we're discussing the topic of what has gone wrong with public education, and everyone reads a repeatedly misspelled post from you saying that you are a teacher, you are going to catch some flack for it. It didn't mean that everyone needed to jump on the wagon, but they were mainly correct. You shouldn't let it get to you. You should simply take it as constructive criticism. Also, just because this is a public message board it does not mean that you should conduct yourself with any less intelligence than you possess. Negligence in spelling for someone who knows how is worse, in my eyes, than someone who genuinely doesn't know how to spell. I make constant mistakes too. The difference is that I proofread everything I post. Of course I still slip up, but I think people understand that. My point is that people here only know you for what they've read. Do you want them to see you as the intelligent person you obviously are or would you prefer for them to take your words (misspellings and all) at face value? quote: A wise person once said before you judge someone, you should walk a mile and a day in his/her shoes. Being a sub teacher is damn hard. There is a complete lack of respect for this person. Think back when you were in school and saw a sub instead of your regular teacher. It was no picnic then nor is it now. Sub teachers have a very hard job. If you think it's a cake walk, then go down to your local school and sign up. Spend one month as a sub teacher and you will see just how hard subs have it and just how bad students can really be. I don't sub because I have to or because I like to, I sub because I want to. I'm an ed major because I want to be a teacher. There is nothing on this planet that can compare to the sight of a student that honestly understands what you're teaching. You can see that the student owns the knowledge. The student isn't renting it just for the test but owning it for the rest of his/her life. Being a teacher isn't about the pay, paper work, meetings, or tests. Being a teacher is about the students. It's knowing that at the end of the day you have reached that hard ass or class clown. When you wonder just how to reach that unreachable student and you actually do. It's about going that extra step and sticking by your word. Only someone that has actually done those things understands. I've done those things and I understand, do you? Will you or are you of the mind set "It's not my problem, it's not my child"? If that is the case then I have walked at least a marathon's worth in your shoes. I'm a substitute teacher. I had a group of challenged first graders today. Last week I had third graders who all had two things in common, a very poor neglectful home life and a sense of being lost in the public school system. Within the first half hour one had thrown up on me because the school nurse sent him back to me after he'd already thrown up once at the office. I'm over three months pregnant, I feel like hell and I do this anyway because at the end of the day when even one child comes up to me and hugs be and says "Goodbye Mrs. Kitty" it makes the entire day worth it. (They have trouble pronouncing my rather odd last name, so Mrs. Kitty is easier for them. It's a nickname that the first class I had gave me and it stuck.) I had a girl in my class today that didn't speak a word of English, and I don't speak a word of Spanish. She and I had basic hand motions down pat that we mutually understood by the end of the day. When the final bell rang she put on her jacket and ran over to me and hugged me so tight around the knees that I thought I was going to fall down. I love these kids. They may not be my own flesh and blood, but I do everything in my power to make sure that they understand what they need to understand in a loving and nurturing environment. If more people cared as much as you or I, or any of the other dedicated teachers in the workforce, the public school system would be a much better place to learn. If teachers had more incentive to be dedicated, such as the paycheck bonuses for those teachers in Kansas schools that excel, or even reasonable class sizes and effective administration, the school system would be a much better place to learn. If more parents and guardians would take an active role in their child's education the public school system would be a much better place to learn. If the other "unconcerned" parties would learn to care more and become more active, instead of whining about how much education costs, the public school system would be a much better place to learn. Regardless of whether you are a teacher, a parent or simply a citizen of this country, education is everyone's business. It may be cliche, but these children are our future. Do we really want our future "dumbed down"?

LaMalinche -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 10:30:54 PM)
quote: If teachers had more incentive to be dedicated, such as the paycheck bonuses for those teachers in Kansas schools Okay, now that I have stopped laughing, I would like to point out what it takes to be a sub teacher in Kansas. 60 college credit hours. That is it. Oh yes, and Kansas is where we teach religion as science. You want to be a school teacher? Sure, just get 110 credit hours and continue for your degree. Oh, and according to statistics, "education majors" are in the low 20% of college graduates. Now, do not get me wrong, I love teachers. Considered it myself. It seems to me however, that when the usage of normal schools ended and University training was used, is when a lot of the issues being "talked" about now became issues. Just my two-cents. But please do not use Kansas as an educational example. It is laughable, well, kind of, I live here, and I find somewhat frightening. LaMalinche --------------------------------------------------------------- "I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: 'The bigs hit me, so I hit the babies; that's fair.' In these words he epitomized the history of the human race." -Bertrand Russell: Education and the Social Order

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/13/2006 11:57:18 PM)
The only reason I used it as an example is because select Kansas schools have been in the news recently for giving their teachers monetary incentives for better test scores and educational results from students.

MHOO314 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 6:31:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IceyOne quote: I swear, how much dumber can our public school system get? Believe me, it will get worse before it gets better. Our educational system has lost its vision, and unless some drastic measures are taken, and soon, they will never reclaim it. Ladies and Gentleman--YOU are the school system--The break down in the school systems is a direct result of the breakdown in society---the school systems have not lost their vision, society has. When a vote for casinos passes before millage increases for new classrooms---we have an issue. When parents don't take the responsibility for their children--no matter what--- we have an issue--parents today expect the schools to do all the raising--the schools have zippo money to do anything decent so the quality of educator hired drops--good educators get private sector jobs--the time and resources to check backgrounds falls away because there is a hole to fill-- I was a single parent by choice with a demanding job, but by goddess I was there, in the school, in their face, volunteering, doing reading hour, I was involved--and I VOTED and I went to meetings and screamed and hollered and argued for what was right. I pulled her out of Catholic school when the priest scandal was breaking, how could she make confession to someone who may have molested her classmate?? And the principal who was a nun, in one year, became an un nun, came out as a lesbian and took a lover and still remained principal?? I am NOT against alternative lifestyles but when it is blatantly smeared in My child's face--I get damn angry. It is MY decision what My child sees and hears. I am a parent first-- parenting has broken down--to the max-- so school children (and this fact is in the majority NOT the minority)-- have become demons who threaten, taunt, jeer and have no respect for authority-- WTH is a 7 yr old doing sneaking a hand gun to school??? WTH is the parent????? teachers aren't teaching today, they are indeed in many cases juve wardens--WTH is a child doing calling his Mother a bitch to her face?? It all starts IMHEO, when the semen hits the egg--good parenting does not cost money--that's crap thinking too--the basic rules of humanity don't change if you have zero or millions--it is how parents perceive and present it. Too many people look at it as not My problem--I don't have a child so me me me needs something else---ahhh yes that new rezoning ordinance--the children of today may indeed be your healthcare givers as your kids put you in a home-- your doctor ( and the one who graduates last is still called Dr)--even your child's spouse-- Yes I took My child out of the system because at present it is bad, but I did NOT withhold My voice, My vote, My passion to force society to get their act together-- quote: quote: ORIGINAL: coyoteugly89 Considering this student wouldn't pick up a comic book and was failing every single subject in the 8th grade, I would say I did something pretty damn amazing. My question to you is --did he read it? did he get it, could he articulate it and what did he learn? That is where the rubber meets the road. quote: Ok girl4you2, I wasn't aware that I was going to have to watch my spelling in my post but just for you I'm going to correct my errors. Firstly, I am a bad speller and indefinitely means an unknown length of time. An 8th grade student can not write a proper sentence because grammar isn't high on the mastery last. Kids have it too easy these days. I am well aware of what to, too, and two mean. As an educator of young minds and a "shaper" of adults of the future, you are damn right I expect you to spell correctly and know proper grammar--that is no different than a policeman being allowed to take a few dollars off the drug bust money---after all he is not perfect--bullshit--stop making excuses and get off your butt--take a class and get it right-- You do not have a class of one, you have a class of 70+, children of all capabilities, their parents and extended families--for that period of time you have a community--its one for all My friend-- quote: I shouldn't be held to a higher standar on a public board such as this one, the higher standar comes when I am infront of my students. It is there where I judge myself harsher than anyone on this planet. It is there where I have to try to reach students that may already be too jaded by system. Its there where I have to show the students that they are better than what society says and they can go further than they believe they can. The class room is where I have to reach an unspoken bar set by students, parents, admin, and society. A higher standard exudes itself at all times, not just when you choose. quote: The class room is where I have to reach an unspoken bar set by students, parents, admin, and society. No I diasgree, life is where the bar is set and it is our bar and what we are all willing to do. If you continue to listen to others, it will eventually alll break down--in your posts you go from passion to whining about what you want to do--that did not come from us--if that is what your days are like, you are too focused on you and not the children-- It is not My intent to flame you--please understand that is not My way--it is My intent to get people off their butts and accept their responsibilities. We whine, we complain, we blame others but what have we done this day to get our house in order? I am now in so much trouble, but I have My flame suit ready!

MHOO314 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 6:36:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain The only reason I used it as an example is because select Kansas schools have been in the news recently for giving their teachers monetary incentives for better test scores and educational results from students. Teachers are paid to incent students where parents don't take the responsibility--this isn't pay for performance, its blackmail.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 11:49:57 AM)
quote: Teachers are paid to incent students where parents don't take the responsibility--this isn't pay for performance, its blackmail. To some degree, but in an imperfect and definitely failing system, it's necessary. It's a small, awkward step towards the right goal. If educators were given priority when it comes to pay, we would be able to hire teachers with the best qualifications and intelligence to back it up. As it is, a high school teacher here in Tippecanoe is lucky to earn $30,000 a year and that's after several years of work. If teachers were paid as well as other child role models, professional athletes and such, or even as well as the medical, dental, or law related field (because that is where most people go, realizing that teaching won't get them far) we would have a brilliant, qualified team of teachers in our schools. Instead we've taken the education of our children as somewhat of a joke. We pay our teachers a mere pittance and make it fairly easy for them to become a teacher. Then we complain about them not being qualified or intelligent enough, and we complain about any bonuses they receive. The bottom line is: We get what we pay for.

samwise213 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 12:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 Ladies and Gentleman--YOU are the school system--The break down in the school systems is a direct result of the breakdown in society---the school systems have not lost their vision, society has. When a vote for casinos passes before millage increases for new classrooms---we have an issue. When parents don't take the responsibility for their children--no matter what--- we have an issue--parents today expect the schools to do all the raising--the schools have zippo money to do anything decent so the quality of educator hired drops--good educators get private sector jobs--the time and resources to check backgrounds falls away because there is a hole to fill-- Bravo. The issue with education, as has been said before, is many faceted. quote: I was a single parent by choice with a demanding job, but by goddess I was there, in the school, in their face, volunteering, doing reading hour, I was involved--and I VOTED and I went to meetings and screamed and hollered and argued for what was right. I pulled her out of Catholic school when the priest scandal was breaking, how could she make confession to someone who may have molested her classmate?? And the principal who was a nun, in one year, became an un nun, came out as a lesbian and took a lover and still remained principal?? I am NOT against alternative lifestyles but when it is blatantly smeared in My child's face--I get damn angry. It is MY decision what My child sees and hears. I am a parent first-- If only more parents were like you. While it is true that there are problems in the Catholic Church, these issues are not unique. A polite question, meaning no disrespect, but would you have done the same if the principle were at a public school, and instead of being a nun was married and got a divorce? quote: parenting has broken down--to the max-- so school children (and this fact is in the majority NOT the minority)-- have become demons who threaten, taunt, jeer and have no respect for authority-- WTH is a 7 yr old doing sneaking a hand gun to school??? WTH is the parent????? teachers aren't teaching today, they are indeed in many cases juve wardens--WTH is a child doing calling his Mother a bitch to her face?? It all starts IMHEO, when the semen hits the egg--good parenting does not cost money--that's crap thinking too--the basic rules of humanity don't change if you have zero or millions--it is how parents perceive and present it. Too many people look at it as not My problem--I don't have a child so me me me needs something else---ahhh yes that new rezoning ordinance--the children of today may indeed be your healthcare givers as your kids put you in a home-- your doctor ( and the one who graduates last is still called Dr)--even your child's spouse-- Yes I took My child out of the system because at present it is bad, but I did NOT withhold My voice, My vote, My passion to force society to get their act together-- It is too bad more people don't sound like this... Education might be able to turn around... I do, of course, assume you would be working with the teacher. There are far too many people who think they know how to do the teachers job better than the teache does, even though they have no experience in charge of a classroom. quote: quote: I shouldn't be held to a higher standar on a public board such as this one, the higher standar comes when I am infront of my students. It is there where I judge myself harsher than anyone on this planet. It is there where I have to try to reach students that may already be too jaded by system. Its there where I have to show the students that they are better than what society says and they can go further than they believe they can. The class room is where I have to reach an unspoken bar set by students, parents, admin, and society. A higher standard exudes itself at all times, not just when you choose. Not only that, but if you expect to reach it at any time, you should expect to reach it at every time.

MHOO314 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 2:10:48 PM)
quote: I was a single parent by choice with a demanding job, but by goddess I was there, in the school, in their face, volunteering, doing reading hour, I was involved--and I VOTED and I went to meetings and screamed and hollered and argued for what was right. I pulled her out of Catholic school when the priest scandal was breaking, how could she make confession to someone who may have molested her classmate?? And the principal who was a nun, in one year, became an un nun, came out as a lesbian and took a lover and still remained principal?? I am NOT against alternative lifestyles but when it is blatantly smeared in My child's face--I get damn angry. It is MY decision what My child sees and hears. I am a parent first-- If only more parents were like you. While it is true that there are problems in the Catholic Church, these issues are not unique. A polite question, meaning no disrespect, but would you have done the same if the principle were at a public school, and instead of being a nun was married and got a divorce No, BUT I did remove My child from a class where the teacher bragged about having a child at 15 and still making something of herself-- I don't wany My child's decision AFTER, I want it before.

samwise213 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/14/2006 9:45:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 No, BUT I did remove My child from a class where the teacher bragged about having a child at 15 and still making something of herself-- I don't wany My child's decision AFTER, I want it before. Fair enough

SadistDave -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/15/2006 12:20:15 AM)
Alright.... this is kind of on topic. I need to rant for just a moment. So I'm working tonight, bored out of my skull, and pick up yesterdays newspaper to check out an article that caught my eye. Pure fluff. The article next to it though just really pissed me off. It seems the state of Missouri just lowered the standards on state testing so more students will make the top 2 tiers of the testing results. Last year a paltry 16% were smart enough to land the top 2 tiers, so they've lowered the standards and expect some 44% to make the same scores on the test this year. How fu(<ing STUPID do people have to be in this country? Okay, so more kids feel better about themselves. This is so wrong on so many levels. It's unfair to the smart kids who need a challenging education. It's unfair to the stupid kids who are being given a bloated feeling of self worth for nothing. It's unfair to society as a whole for producing dumbasses with degrees just so the poor little nippers won't have a complex. I certainly don't feel better knowing that now it won't just be the smart kids designing bridges and performing open heart surgery on people a decade or so from now. Am I wrong for not wanting to trust my life to people who are stupider than they should be to do the jobs they aren't really qualified to do? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! -SD-

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/15/2006 1:32:28 AM)
You know some of those kids don't want to be in school because the way their treated. I am learning disabled and I was in special ed and still I was told endlesly I was lazy I wasn't trying hard enough I could do the work and chose not to. When honestly I was giving it my all and I STILL couldn't understand it. After so long of that yeah I had a bad attitude yeah I chose to flunk out or be sent away. And ironically I was the little girl in kindergarten through third who adored school but my class mates made it hell picking on me teasing me later on beating me up cause they could. Or that classes were stuffed full to the gills with only one teacher ad 35 kids, and any one who fell behind failed? Or how about the fact that the gangster idiots and stuff distroyed any books we had to learn with, or the teachers sour ass attitudes from dealing with little punk assholed. With all that it is no wonder kids don't want to be in school.

MHOO314 -> RE: Todays Kids have it easy. Theory gone bad. (1/15/2006 5:07:18 AM)
One of the states I referred to when I speak of our school situation was Missouri

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