RE: Army Suicides at Record High

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kittinSol -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 12:40:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY He's still not available, dear. [;)] I am, in fact, allergic to shark fin soup, so you can rest assured that the shark's all yours [8\|] .

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 3:53:47 PM)
Firm, she may not be too far off base, not meaning you, but others. I grew up in the military, and almost all of my family have served, several of them retired. What would have been my oldest brother, died likely because of malpractice at a Military hospital and my Dad refused to pursue anything beyond a complaint to the base Commander. He also never speaks poorly of anything any military personel does, at least openly. He states that there are the proper channels to deal with such things. My brother used to be very similar until whatever happened with him on a deployment in South America. Now he is the reverse, and classified paranoid schizophrenic when discharged. Though he retains benefits, due to a medical discharge, he refuses to use them or go to a VA hospital. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I think that a few ex military personnel remain loyal to the army as an institution at all cost, nevermind what wrong the army may be doing. They were trained well. It must be a terribly, terribly deary and hopeless world inside your mind and heart, kittin. Firm

TheHeretic -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 6:38:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I think that a few ex military personnel remain loyal to the army as an institution at all cost, nevermind what wrong the army may be doing. They were trained well. Dear, dear, Kitten... Wouldn't that apply to any group that undergoes some indoctrination? New York Times readers, as one example that springs to mind? [;)] There are going to be a "few" of anything and everything in a group as large and diverse as our military. It's really an amazing collection of people.

slvemike4u -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 6:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I think that a few ex military personnel remain loyal to the army as an institution at all cost, nevermind what wrong the army may be doing. They were trained well. Dear, dear, Kitten... Wouldn't that apply to any group that undergoes some indoctrination? New York Times readers, as one example that springs to mind? [;)] There are going to be a "few" of anything and everything in a group as large and diverse as our military. It's really an amazing collection of people. N.Y. Times readers go through indoctrination.....thats what springs to mind Rich! Perhaps you should invest in new springs.

TheHeretic -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 7:39:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u [;)] N.Y. Times readers go through indoctrination.....thats what springs to mind Rich! Perhaps you should invest in new springs Inside joke, Mike. Does it bother you that I talk to Kitten when you aren't around?

Owner59 -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 7:59:55 PM)
It`s not the military people were criticizing. It was the leaders and the leadership. The neo-cons subordinated every non-political part of government to politics,including and especially the military.Iraq was one big expensive,deadly,embarrassing personal ego trip/photo op for them. The neo-conservatives are not the military. They don`t speak for or represent the military and don`t have any sort of credibility on military issues. Criticizing them (as they should be) or neo-con policy is not criticism of the military.

slvemike4u -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 8:20:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u [;)] N.Y. Times readers go through indoctrination.....thats what springs to mind Rich! Perhaps you should invest in new springs Inside joke, Mike. Does it bother you that I talk to Kitten when you aren't around? ROFLMAO.....Rich don't worry about me,I happen to find you amusing.

Vendaval -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 9:03:36 PM)
Orion, I am very sorry to hear what happened to your two brothers while in the Armed Services. I know veterans like your father who are strongly supportive of the military and those like your brother who will not go to a VA hospital. The VA needs a major over-haul especially as we have 2 current wars. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Firm, she may not be too far off base, not meaning you, but others. I grew up in the military, and almost all of my family have served, several of them retired. What would have been my oldest brother, died likely because of malpractice at a Military hospital and my Dad refused to pursue anything beyond a complaint to the base Commander. He also never speaks poorly of anything any military personel does, at least openly. He states that there are the proper channels to deal with such things. My brother used to be very similar until whatever happened with him on a deployment in South America. Now he is the reverse, and classified paranoid schizophrenic when discharged. Though he retains benefits, due to a medical discharge, he refuses to use them or go to a VA hospital.

TheHeretic -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 9:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not the military people were criticizing. Really, O59? I would swear I saw someone around here calling them, "not necessarily people." How would you reconcile your statement with that?

TranceTara -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/3/2009 9:57:04 PM)
Hi Firm, I hope you don't mind me interjecting my thoughts here. I think it was the leadership and the lack of aftercare and concern for all the soldiers who are now coming home and attempting to acclimate back into civilian life, that many of us were criticizing. In fact, I choose not to call those officers leaders at all, for, if they cannot take care of those under them they do not deserve the title. A true leader is a servant and acts with honour, dignity, respect, ethics and compassion. It does not mean he/she is a pushover, but they lead by their influence. What I see in the military (and even in the private sector) is more of an indifference to those under them. And Orion, I am sorry about your brothers. I had an uncle who was a career army man. He fought WWII, and volunteered for the Korean War and Viet Nam. I remember as a kid we were picking him up from the airport after his stay in Nam was through. He had immediately snapped at my dad and those two did not get along. What I saw was a man who acted almost robotic and spoke in a monotone. His sons never grew close to him. I remember one time he said something to the effect, "No one should have to see the things I've seen." It broke my heart. He was one of the lucky ones in that his hip replacement, and then when he got cancer, his treatment was covered by the VA. And yet, he died so lonely and broken. I never saw him really smile. Do you know what I mean? So, rather than say he was not "necessarily people," I tended to see him as a "broken" man. A man whose spirit was sucked out of him never to return. I don't want that happening to all the men and woman in Iraq and Afghanistan. I want them to be able to smile and laugh and have fun. I don't want to see them as statistics in a mental hospital nor as a suicide. They need to be given a chance and that's where the anger is. At the so-called "leaders" who won't lift a finger and the institutions that could not care less.

came4U -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/5/2009 1:49:09 PM)
CNN today: Army official: Suicides in January 'terrifying' "But Platoni said she sees the multiple deployments, stigma associated with seeking treatment and the excessive use of anti-depressants as ongoing concerns for mental-health professionals who work with soldiers." "The anti-depressants prescribed to soldiers can have side effects that include suicidal thoughts. Those side effects reportedly are more common in people 18 to 24." As I said on page 2 (??) of this thread, drugged up soldiers come home to be switch-medicated on a lesser or different medication and voila....you have your source for suicide. How dare they (the DOD) act so dumbfounded in reaction.

domiguy -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/5/2009 2:31:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 It`s not the military people were criticizing. Really, O59? I would swear I saw someone around here calling them, "not necessarily people." How would you reconcile your statement with that? I see that this thread has been propped back up....Odd, but it is actually a thread that has crossed my mind a time or two over the last few days....I really need a life. Anywhooooo, what I was thinking is how the Army does much in it's power not to let the populace consider our soldiers as being "necessarily human." They are referred to as troops. Rarely are photos allowed that depict the seriously wounded or the dying. No pictures of caskets returning home are allowed. I am wise enough to realize that this might be the path to not have an affect on morale. But I believe that there is something more insidious at work, it is a way to seperate the American Public from the dead and the wounded. Troops are not people. I'm not sure if they even bleed or are capable of being killed when shot, stabbed or blown up. If death is ever discussed it is wrapped up in terminology like body count or casualities. Not quite the same as informing Americans that Peter Desmond of South Dakota was decapitated when his hum vee exploded. Just saying. God bless all who serve and may you return home as quickly as possible.

aravain -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/5/2009 4:01:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U "The anti-depressants prescribed to soldiers can have side effects that include suicidal thoughts. Those side effects reportedly are more common in people 18 to 24." That's the reason why I (and a few of my friends) can't take anti-depressants, anymore, even when severe depression is the problem.

TheHeretic -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/5/2009 8:10:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Anywhooooo, what I was thinking is how the Army does much in it's power not to let the populace consider our soldiers as being "necessarily human." Gotta disagree, DG. You can't turn on the local TV news without regular dosings of the personal lives of local soldiers saying "hi" from Iraqistan. Those full dress Marines collecting Toys for Tots? Public relations is a big deal. They are referred to as troops In the exactly the same way we refer to teachers, policemen, firemen, taxpayers, recipients and participants. As I said to Kitten earlier, you can't take something commonly practiced and pretend the same rules don't apply here. . Rarely are photos allowed that depict the seriously wounded or the dying. No pictures of caskets returning home are allowed. I see this as evidence of just the opposite from what you are suggesting. I think the rules governing these things recognize that each of those flag draped coffins represents an individual life snuffed out, an individual family devastated. I am wise enough to realize that this might be the path to not have an affect on morale. Bingo. Military and civilian. We are talking about some powerful images. But I believe that there is something more insidious at work, it is a way to seperate the American Public from the dead and the wounded. Not so insidioius. Standard practice really. Do you know how long it was before the gov't released the casualty numbers from D-Day? (Neither do I, right off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it was a long damn time.) Troops are not people. I'm not sure if they even bleed or are capable of being killed when shot, stabbed or blown up. Of course they do. How else would we get the daily numbers? If death is ever discussed it is wrapped up in terminology like body count or casualities. Not quite the same as informing Americans that Peter Desmond of South Dakota was decapitated when his hum vee exploded. Again this is standard gov't practice. Do we hear that Qweeka'ashakah Merkle was arrested in her hum vee when it was determined that she was receiving $1,100 dollars a month in cash aid and food stamps, living in a 5 bedroom home w/pool with Section 8 paying 100% of her rent, while failing to declare the $180,000 she brought in last year from her three nail salons? Or do we hear about increased enforcement on welfare fraud? Just saying. But of course! God bless all who serve and may you return home as quickly as possible. Amen

came4U -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/14/2009 9:42:22 PM)
http://www.edgewoodtestvets.org/ Vietnam Veterans of America, et al. v. Central Intelligence Agency, et al. Case No. CV-09-0037-CW, U.S.D.C. (N.D. Cal. 2009) Plaintiffs seek declaratory and injunctive relief only – no monetary damages – and Plaintiffs seek redress for 25 years of diabolical experiments followed by over 30 years of neglect, including: the use of troops to test nerve gas, psychochemicals, and thousands of other toxic chemical or biological substances and perhaps most gruesomely, the insertion of septal implants in the brains of subjects in a ghastly series of mind control experiments that went awry; the failures to secure informed consent and other widespread failures to follow the precepts of U.S. and international law regarding the use of human subjects, including the 1953 Wilson Directive and the Nuremberg Code; an almost fanatical refusal to satisfy their legal and moral obligations to locate the victims of their gruesome experiments or to provide health care or compensation to them; the deliberate destruction of evidence and files documenting their illegal actions, actions which were punctuated by fraud, deception, and a callous disregard for the value of human life.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Army Suicides at Record High (2/15/2009 2:00:32 AM)
Real0ne ... is that you?

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