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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 11:09:04 AM   
E2Sweet


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From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

Ooo, they got a raise! (Just joshin' you)

I agree. We need more local-made goods, the problem is that redoing free-trade agreements and such *will* cause diplomatic fallout.



Agreed. But at the same token, isn't it fair to say that not doing exactly that is already creating massive domestic fallout?


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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 3:24:07 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

There are no solutions, only impediments.  Remove the impediments and let folks be as productive as they can.


I could have sworn we just did that.

You know, the last eight years.

How did that all work out?

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 3:57:25 PM   
TheUtopian


Posts: 259
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quote:

Our current economic situation was decades in the making.  This didn't start with the mortgage crisis, that was just the last economic bubble to burst, and unlike when the tech bubble and other bubbles burst, there isn't another growing bubble for us to hop on to. 


Exceptional post. You definitely get it.


Other than the fact that they're likely to try and reign in 401k's into the treasury - there's almost ''zero'' potential of a ''new'' bubble being crafted on the horizon.

What's equally important for the American people to understand, is the fact that the bubbles did not come about by mere happenstance - No.....they were instead purposely manufactured to supplant the ordinary stimulus that would have normally been derived from an ever-growing, manufacturing-based economy.

Americans need to learn to differentiate between real, legitimate wealth creation, and that of artificially-inflated, bubble-ensconced, asset-price appreciation. As we've now come to realize, asset-price appreciation derived from this latest credit bubble, is a purely fictitious form of wealth-creation that can never be sustained.


quote:

I think that any solution has to come from the bottom and work its way up.  We've spent a lot of years keeping wages at the bottom low, and it's biting us in the ass.  We've pushed a heck of a lot of our population right out of the consumer class.  We've got to get them back into the game.  Pouring more money into the top and waiting for it to trickle down isn't going to work.  Too little makes its way down.


It's age old....

Wages are not rising, but productivity is rising fast. Productivity is the main source of supply; wages are the main source of demand. When supply rises faster than demand, the only way you can maintain the integral supply/demand balance is through the creation of new debt.

That formula only works for so long.....The debt burden is so huge that it’s just a short-matter of time before we will no longer be able to create anymore new debt.
 
The only way out, is through the re-institution of tariffs, or the complete return to a non-globalized, self-sustaining, economy----completely defined within each individual nation-state.

'' Free Trade '' in its current definition is the culprit here....and unless we can think of a way to instantly raise the living/wage standards to that of first-world nation states, we will continue to ''equalize'' in a downward fashion.







- R

< Message edited by TheUtopian -- 1/30/2009 4:56:26 PM >

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 4:50:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Quit believing in the myth of the global economy. That is if you want any particular country to build and hold a stable economy.

That fallacy has come home to roost to bite us in the ass.

Our industrialists decided that immediate profit increase was all that was important. They did not foresee the time when there would not be a market for their goods at their previous prices. This because the people that were purchasing them no longer have the expendable income…because they lost their jobs when industry was moved from the country.

Now they are faced with ruin…and begging tax money from the very people they screwed.

I think China has the right idea… When greedy industrialist does something to threaten their economy… they execute them.

Excuse me but I’m feeling extreme today.

Butch the Barbarian


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 4:53:30 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
One:  Cut taxes! 

A simplistic and foolish idea that in no way represents any kind of solution.  There are a *lot* of things that we rely on government to do and all of those things cost money.  The federal govt is spending way more than it's taking in.  That is not sustainable, obviously.  We need to take a realistic look at what we want government to do on our behalf and how much it's going to cost, and how we're going to pay for it.  We all have to chip in.  Cutting taxes in a time when govt revenues are already going to be tanking and there are so many more demands on government services is really an assinine idea. 

quote:

Two:  Eliminate stupid regulations. 

I'm all for eliminating stupid regulations, but I'm concerned that many pushes for deregulation are accompanied by attempts to limit consumers' rights to sue.  Not all consumer lawsuits are about too-hot coffee.  Many important and non-stupid regulations came about as a result of consumer lawsuits.  If I'm damaged by some product I've purchased or screwed over by some company I'm doing business with, I will be pissed off to discover that I have no legal recourse to address the situation because my legislators have traded away my rights.  I'm guessing that I'm not alone in that. 

quote:

Three:  Eliminate the minimum wage. 

Another simplistic and foolish idea.  What we need is a minimum wage that is a living wage.  Anyone working full-time hours ought to make enough money to pay for the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing, transportation.  We're currently subsidizing less than living wages with tax dollars.  The Earned Income Credit is nothing more than a support that enables business to pay lower-than-practical wages.  We're also subsidizing low wages with food stamp and medicaid/SCHIP, daycare subsidies and other poor-working-folk programs.  When things get tight, we don't go to the people who are profiting from cheap labor to fill in the gap, we take the money away from the underpaid workers by cutting the programs that support their low wages. 

We're going to pay one way or another.  I'd rather pay more for the products I buy and know that the people who are getting it to me are paid enough to be contributing members of society than to buy stuff cheap and support the folks who are getting it to me and the profits of the companies they work for with my tax dollars.  I don't buy the idea that this would kill small business.  If my small business can only survive by relying on the EIC, food stamps and medicaid to take care of my employees, I've got a piss-poor business plan. 

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 5:07:57 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		We're up to our necks in this "global economy" right now.
I'm watching CNBC the business channel.
It doesn't sound as if many people even on Wall Street like it very much anymore.
This "global economy" reminds me of a cheap "B" movie where the key actor is finally found out to be a fraud and the people feel duped for ever believing in him.
I don't know about anyone else but it certainly hasn't made my life any "better" by being able to buy lots of stuff  "cheap."
Thirty years ago I was a lot happier than I am today with *much* less "stuff."
Where are all the businessmen and politicians and lobbyists who were touting this "global market" ten years ago?
Anyone seen any of them lately?
Anytime someone tries the "hard sell" on you back the fuck up!
"Touts!" That's what they are!

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 5:10:38 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...when they talk about an old idea- I am not impressed.  2009 is a different world and we dont need reruns.

nothing is going to go anywhere until we shake the monkey of the federal reserve.  they have crashed us a few times.  this is actually the 3rd central bank we have had.

until that is fixed- nothing is going to have a lasting effect.

there is always work to be done. cut out the middleman.

one problem is that good ideas dont get the air play.  the powers that be wont let it,

our universities have a share of the blame here. supposedly they sell knowledge.   well where is it?   seems that they will take a hit.

so - what happens next is pimps hos and drug pushers.....   unless you can fix and build things.   we don't need anymore bean counters.   we needs people to change diapers- (baby and elderly_ we need people to dig graves.  we need some to grow grain and a bakery to bake the bread- or a good stove .....

we also need to dump corporate personhood.


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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 5:26:47 PM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
One:  Cut taxes! 

A simplistic and foolish idea that in no way represents any kind of solution.  There are a *lot* of things that we rely on government to do and all of those things cost money.  The federal govt is spending way more than it's taking in.  That is not sustainable, obviously.  We need to take a realistic look at what we want government to do on our behalf and how much it's going to cost, and how we're going to pay for it.  We all have to chip in.  Cutting taxes in a time when govt revenues are already going to be tanking and there are so many more demands on government services is really an assinine idea. 



Agreed, unless of course you're going to rein in public schemes such as infrastructure/roads etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Two:  Eliminate stupid regulations. 

I'm all for eliminating stupid regulations, but I'm concerned that many pushes for deregulation are accompanied by attempts to limit consumers' rights to sue.  Not all consumer lawsuits are about too-hot coffee.  Many important and non-stupid regulations came about as a result of consumer lawsuits.  If I'm damaged by some product I've purchased or screwed over by some company I'm doing business with, I will be pissed off to discover that I have no legal recourse to address the situation because my legislators have traded away my rights.  I'm guessing that I'm not alone in that. 



Agreed. The popular misconception is that 'the government' is always to blame: how convenient. The reality of course is that politicians do not run today's countries' affairs; they're the servants of business. The banks have gotten away with malpractice precisely because of a lack of regulation.

There is no magic wand that can be waved at a recession. Somehow you have to free up the flow of capital, but that's easier said than done in a climate of uncertainty.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 1/30/2009 5:28:00 PM >

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 6:17:50 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

A simplistic and foolish idea that in no way represents any kind of solution.  There are a *lot* of things that we rely on government to do and all of those things cost money.  The federal govt is spending way more than it's taking in.  That is not sustainable, obviously.  We need to take a realistic look at what we want government to do on our behalf and how much it's going to cost, and how we're going to pay for it.  We all have to chip in.  Cutting taxes in a time when govt revenues are already going to be tanking and there are so many more demands on government services is really an assinine idea. 


The answer to that is simple: cut government spending.  Also, when the economy starts to improve, resulting in more tax payers, government revenue will start to go up again.  We have to live within our budgets, why shouldn’t the government do the same?  We are expected to cut back spending when our revenue goes down, why shouldn’t the government do the same?

quote:

I'm all for eliminating stupid regulations, but I'm concerned that many pushes for deregulation are accompanied by attempts to limit consumers' rights to sue.  Not all consumer lawsuits are about too-hot coffee.  Many important and non-stupid regulations came about as a result of consumer lawsuits.  If I'm damaged by some product I've purchased or screwed over by some company I'm doing business with, I will be pissed off to discover that I have no legal recourse to address the situation because my legislators have traded away my rights.  I'm guessing that I'm not alone in that.


I have no problem with allowing people to sue when a company screws them over.  Like I said most regulations are designed to favor one group (in this example, businesses) over another (in this example, consumers).  It's up to us, the people, to elect representatives who will enact common sense, neutral, regulations.  Not likely to happen though since most of us perfer to vote for people who will favor us. 

quote:

Another simplistic and foolish idea.  What we need is a minimum wage that is a living wage.  Anyone working full-time hours ought to make enough money to pay for the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing, transportation.


Why?  Why do we cling to this paradigm that every wage has to be a living wage?  What’s wrong with a wage that allows a teenager to have some spending money for the weekend?  What’s wrong with a wage that allows one spouse to add to the primary (supporting) income of the other spouse?  What’s wrong with a wage that allows a senior citizen to supplement their retirement?  These are just some of the people that get fucked over every time we raise the minimum wage. 


quote:

We're currently subsidizing less than living wages with tax dollars.  The Earned Income Credit is nothing more than a support that enables business to pay lower-than-practical wages.  We're also subsidizing low wages with food stamp and medicaid/SCHIP, daycare subsidies and other poor-working-folk programs.  When things get tight, we don't go to the people who are profiting from cheap labor to fill in the gap, we take the money away from the underpaid workers by cutting the programs that support their low wages.


Yes, we are subsidizing less than living wages.  We are also subsidizing people who can’t get a job at all because they’ve been priced out of the job market by minimum wage laws.  If these people could get a job that brings in some money, then we could subsidize even less. 

quote:

We're going to pay one way or another.  I'd rather pay more for the products I buy and know that the people who are getting it to me are paid enough to be contributing members of society than to buy stuff cheap and support the folks who are getting it to me and the profits of the companies they work for with my tax dollars.  I don't buy the idea that this would kill small business.  If my small business can only survive by relying on the EIC, food stamps and medicaid to take care of my employees, I've got a piss-poor business plan.


Maybe you would be willing to pay more for products but not everybody is and – more importantly- not everybody can.  Increases in the minimum wage thus result in a decrease in the demand for goods and services resulting in even few jobs.  Hence another negative result of the minimum wage: it is subsidizing the paychecks of some people at the expense of jobs for others.  The minimum wage doesn’t have to kill a small business to have a negative impact, it merely has to force them to lay some people off.

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 6:32:17 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Agreed, unless of course you're going to rein in public schemes such as infrastructure/roads etc.


Every government program is necessary?  You can’t think of any government spending (remember the bridge to nowhere?  Or how about anything named after Robert Byrd?) that isn’t necessary?

quote:

Agreed. The popular misconception is that 'the government' is always to blame: how convenient. The reality of course is that politicians do not run today's countries' affairs; they're the servants of business. The banks have gotten away with malpractice precisely because of a lack of regulation.


Any argument can be made to look absurd by pushing it to the extremes.  I’m not a deregulation purist.  Still, I would like someone to explain to me why an environmental impact study is needed to erect a four by five foot sign?  As for the government being the servants of businesses, whose fault is that?  

quote:

There is no magic wand that can be waved at a recession. Somehow you have to free up the flow of capital, but that's easier said than done in a climate of uncertainty.


I never claimed there is a magic wand.  There are however simple, common sense solutions and one of them is to put more money back into the private sector (the freeing up of capital).  Actually, it should be termed leaving more capital in the private sector since all taxes amount to a taking of money from the private sector. 

The problem is simple: the private sector is loosing money.  How does taking even more money (raising taxes) out of it solve the problem?

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 6:33:24 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Made in the USA. Does not mean what a lot of people think it does. At one time they banned stuff made in Japan. So they got around it buy naming a town USA. Their stuff was then shipped here because it was made in the USA.


Dnomyar, and Japanese and Korean car companies have been "backdooring" us for years by having auto plants in Mexico and getting those cars into the U.S. under that rediculous "NAFTA" deal. Funny, I didn't know Japan and S. Korea were part of, "North America!"
And Merc, good post!
We have a seperation of church and state in this country.
We need to have a seperation of big business and state as well.
It's funny, how does business expect people to be "consumers" if they can't make a decent week's pay?
How does someone who makes $15 an hour pay an accountant, lawyer or a doctor for their services or buy a new house or car?
The answer is, they don't because they can't.
Ummm... i love my Kia. ( Those CM'ers that have ridden around with me know...it runs like a little sporty demon.)The warranty is fabulous...and the money i save on car repairs helps stimulate the US economy. When the US automakers offer me the same sort of engineering, and back it up with a 100,000 mile warranty...i'll be driving the hell out of a Ford.  Being competitive and innovative is what built the American auto industry, but somewhere along the way, they fell off.  Buying inferior goods doesn't make me patriotic, it just makes me broke.

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 6:40:26 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Uhmmmm....that would be...."Jobs".

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 7:24:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Ummm... i love my Kia. ( Those CM'ers that have ridden around with me know...it runs like a little sporty demon.)The warranty is fabulous...and the money i save on car repairs helps stimulate the US economy. When the US automakers offer me the same sort of engineering, and back it up with a 100,000 mile warranty...i'll be driving the hell out of a Ford.  Being competitive and innovative is what built the American auto industry, but somewhere along the way, they fell off.  Buying inferior goods doesn't make me patriotic, it just makes me broke.


Ah yes, those South Koreans.

Masters of innovation and technology. 

If only we can emulate them.

And what can compare with the performance and stylish good looks of a Hyundai?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/30/2009 7:25:20 PM >

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 7:26:42 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

Ah yes, those South Koreans.

Masters of innovation and technology. 

If only we can emulate them.

Joke if you may....would an American automaker guaranteee 100,00 miles on what they produce nowadays????

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 7:44:04 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

Ah yes, those South Koreans.

Masters of innovation and technology. 

If only we can emulate them.

Joke if you may....would an American automaker guaranteee 100,00 miles on what they produce nowadays????


I might be mistaken, but I believe Chrysler has had that for many years.

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 7:47:42 PM   
TheUtopian


Posts: 259
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quote:

Ummm... i love my Kia. ( Those CM'ers that have ridden around with me know...it runs like a little sporty demon.)The warranty is fabulous...and the money i save on car repairs helps stimulate the US economy. When the US automakers offer me the same sort of engineering, and back it up with a 100,000 mile warranty...i'll be driving the hell out of a Ford.  Being competitive and innovative is what built the American auto industry, but somewhere along the way, they fell off.  Buying inferior goods doesn't make me patriotic, it just makes me broke.


I think you're clearly proffering up a myth. These two links took me all of twenty seconds to retrieve.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/170946/things_to_avoid_at_all_cost_the_kia.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/warranty/

It looks to me as if Chevrolet may have the best warranty, as it is fully transferable to a second party. The drive-train mileage is equivalent, with the only difference being that Kia affords you up to ten years to run up 100k in mileage instead of five.

Honestly, I drive a Honda, a Jeep and full size Chevy pick-up, and the more I read/research, these days American cars seem to hold up just as well as their foreign counterparts.

But getting back to the debilitating aspects of globalism - This situation is gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets better.....and I'm just gonna smile and gloat during the whole process 








- R

< Message edited by TheUtopian -- 1/30/2009 8:00:10 PM >

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 7:58:41 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		When i was car shopping....i went to  Chrysler...i wanted a PT cruiser, (they're so cute) and the only thing anyone mentioned was a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty...but maybe i ran into some shady Chrysler dealers.  It's possible.

Utopian...i've driven Chevy's in the past, and they are long-lasting.  Certainly the best of the American makers....but i still never had a dealer offer me a warranty comparable to the one i have.  i would think if they indeed had such a warranty, it would be a selling point...but on the Aveo i looked , they offered me 5-year 60,000 miles. Maybe they didn't feel i was "warranty worthy" .


edited to say sorry for the hijack 

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 1/30/2009 7:59:11 PM >

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RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 8:37:43 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I am sure most of us have heard the latest news.
Unemployment is up in all 50 states, with no real end in sight.
I live in an area which tends to have a very low unemplyment rate {DC/VA/MD} area.
 
This evening in line at the store, the woman behind me started a conversation about
the rising unemployment rates.
She had a sad look in her eyes, and she said she was a bit worried.
We both agreed that this is probably one of the best area's in the world, as far as employment.
 
As we slide closer to the coming Depression, we all wait to see what the new Administration, Congress
and the House pass as far as a "stimulus package".
One thing is for certain, when these new jobs are created, many will be making a lot less than they were
before, but at least they will be employed.
Any thoughts on how America can at least make a dent in the daily rising numbers of the unemployed?


I think Pelosi gave one answer....spend $300 million on condoms and less people will be born which, I guess, should ultimately help the unemployement rate.  Barney Frank is in favor the 350 million or whatever in the Bill for STD's.....This is not a stimulus Bill...it's more like "safe sex, and meds if you mess up."

It's not going to get better with the democrat spending plan. Even the Congressional CBO estimates that only about 20% of the money in the Bill will be spent in 2009..the remainder 2010 and beyond.  But that's only part of the problem....the way the bill is designed now all it amounts to is a growth in government with an extimated 600,000 "government" jobs.  Government programs in the 1930's made work for people but didn't create "job's.  Jobs are created by BUSINESS...not Government....Jobs are created in an enterprise seeking profit, not "social change". The waste in the current bill, even to an untrained eye, is astounding. http://readthestimulus.org/cbo_charts.php

I listened to Rep. Maxine Waters propose an amendment (HR1 Amendment 17 that passed) to allow for $2billion to be used for "training for Broadband"...to bring Broadband to areas of the country that don't have "internet".  She gave no supporting evidence as to the ability of those people "trained to work in Broadband"  are actually needed, or are there unemployed people that used to work for Time Warner, or Comcast, and other cable and telephone companies that could do the job if there was a need!  Great source of money for "training schools", however...and I wonder if any made contributions to political campaigns.

Money for new "Green" industries!  Now the government is determining what industries represent the future rather than the marketplace.  What has the government ever done to create anything?  Other than developing the nuclear bomb, what has government invented?  However, "green" is such a wonderful bucket to fill with taxpayer money.  Might even put a few thousand people to work building "windmills".  God forbid there was money for new, efficient coal power plants, nuclear plants, solar panels for home use...but nope...we are going to take a cue from Cervantes and chase "Windmills" like Don Quixote.  No one ever mentions that you need "back-up"generators for windmills.  Another payoff by the democrat party to the radical environementalists.

We can go through all 400 pages of House Bill HR1 and the 11 Amendments....passed entirely by the Pelosi democrat party....but that would be like beating ourselves with straps.

If you want to generate jobs....cut corporate taxes.  Let business be given some comfort level that big government is not going to come in and control their operations as the so called "Fair Employment Act" will do when it takes away the rights of a worker to cast a secret ballot for or against unionization.  There are twelve States with right to work laws that have attracted foreign companies and that will be ended by this Bill that Obama will sign if it comes to his desk...and destroy current jobs and stop further investment by foreign companies.  U.S. companies are the enemy of the democrat party which seeks only Big Government controlling our lives. U.S. companies now pay the highest corporate tax rates in the world,.and no wonder they have been building plants in Ireland where the tax rate is 12% and business is welcomed. 

Nothing to help the economy will come from the democrat socialist Congress in the near term. The President feels he can sell his programs by heightening the fear of Americans with his constant beating up of the economy, and depressing psychology.  The stock market will probably continue to erode in value as people see all of the concerns expressed buy an inexperienced man in President Obama and his socialist views that the country was warned of come to light. Watch Daschle destroy our Healthcare system, watch the EPA destroy any competitive edge American industry might have...watch more speeches from our Dear Leader" that there is time to make profit and time not to make profit and this is one of those times,"..Can you believe an American president said that???

< Message edited by corysub -- 1/30/2009 8:40:53 PM >

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 8:48:05 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Kia has an enormous advantage over US manufacturers in that they are so deeply in bed with the Korean government it can sometimes be hard to tell where 1 ends and the other begins.  Kia owns the steel mills, the tranportation, the factories, the ships, etc.  They build the trucks that transport to raw materials and the finished good.  They build the ships that bring the cars here, they own the port facilities that load the ships.  And the Korean government is there with them every step of the way. 

In the US we have anti-trust laws that prevent this sort of thing and for good reason.  Anyone remember the "company store"?

As mentioned elsewhere, I have a Dode Caravan and a Chrysler Sebring convertible.  No foreign cars for me, TYVM :)

~Dave


~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Unemployment is Up in all 50 States! What is the so... - 1/30/2009 8:52:47 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well THAT'S simple: redefine "unemployed."  Worked last time we tried it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Any thoughts on how America can at least make a dent in the daily rising numbers of the unemployed?

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 60
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