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RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 5:28:58 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I disagree.

Thank you Padraig, for putting the focus back where it belongs.

As far as your 'rant' you were mistaken about one thing (at least in my situation) Reading everyone's opinions on sub vs slave has not confused me...in fact it's put into v clear relief exactly what it is I don't want and/or believe. No further detail is necessary, as, everyone is different, and entitled to follow their own path.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:03:02 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Not being a slave, having no interest in being one, or owning one, my opinion may be of little use here.

But seriously...someone who has (presumably) voluntarily become a "slave" no longer has any rights whatsoever?

Just so I'm sure I understand your position...if master/mistress hands slave a gun and orders slave to kill someone, slave cannot refuse?

Or (to paraphrase from my mother) if mistress/master says, "Jump off a bridge," slave must do it?

I realize that many, many people are much more serious about this lifestyle than I am, but this just seems way over the top.

Tasha

Hello All,
I am my Masters live in 24/7 TPE Slave. I have no rights to refuse him anything if I want to continue being his slave. If I was pushed to do something I could not do I have the choice to try and show him my side, find a way to have peace in his choice, or if it gets real bad I can renounce my slave's position and basically become a run away slave.
Depending on the length of my contract I can also just shut down and become stoic and stay till my contract ends.
Either way it would be a horrible thing indeed, but the protocol deems your Master is in charge period.
Over all during the length of the contract Master's will overrules your own always when you are a slave.
You are to make him happy, help him, listen to him, and fill his needs as he sees fit & be pleasing to him overall.
If you reach an impass you can discuss your feelings, but it's his decision to lay a course of action.
If you are abused or your basic needs are neglected you can ( and should) get out by leaving, but still you are breaking a contract and leaving your Master which is not an easy thing to do.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to tasha_tart)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:37:09 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31

Lets say there is something that a sub/slave considers a very hard limit for what ever the reason may be (emotional, psychological, moral,to extreme). Lets say this sub/slaves Dom/Master really ejoys this activity. He/she is willing to forgo this activity becuase it causes said sub/slave so much distress. But he/she still brings the subject up often hoping to desensitize the sub/slave to this activity in hopes that she may some day be ok with it. The sub/slave very much wants to please her Dom/Master yet can't get past this.

Where does the sub/slave draw the line. How does the sub/slave balance the need to want to please with her own personal limitations? Can said sub/slave say this will never happen especially if he/she progresses to status of slave.

aurora

Do you really want to be with someone that is coercing you into something you don't want to do? I mean come on. You're old enough to know better then that. Here's the line:

Subs 'negotiate' a hard limit and that is it. No if ands or buts. If he is pushing to cross that line........ well, if you stay with him thats your stupidity.

Slaves will do the deed and trust in the man they call Master. They trust in the fact that he values them enough to not hurt them. They know him enough to trust him that much. Does the slave have the right to say no? Sure, but the Master has the right at that time to kick their wanna-be ass to the curb. Does the slave have the right to leave? Yep, but the Master has the right to punish them in whatever way he wants if they decide to return. Does the slave have a right to an opinion? By all means, but the Master decides where, when and in what way they can express it. Step over that line and you'll feel the end of the whip, paddle, nightstick, whatever. Thats the Masters right, not the slaves.

For those of you that can't wrap your little heads around this.......... well tough shit. Is this right for everyone? No, but I'm not in this for everyone. I'm in it for me and these rules are what works for me and my slaves. If things are different for you then fine, happy for ya. But I really don't care. This thread has been four pages of bullhit so far that has little to do with the OP. If you have to express something of little relevance, create a new thread. Don't highjack this one.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to aurora31)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:43:16 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31



Theory about slavery aside, here's some reality. You want to please your dominant, that's good. You have some limitations that prevent you from doing that as fully as you would like, that's a problem but its also a very human thing. Your question then is where is the balance between these two... here it is.

You do the best you can, be willing to try... accept that you may fail, but if you tried your best, that's okay. That's it.

Human beings are complex critters... there's all those messy emotions, taboos, morals, ethics, emotional baggage, ideologies, religious values, etc. getting in the way of being a mindlessly obedient slave. That's the reality of this lifestyle, of consensual submission in any form, whatever you call it. You may want to submit completely, but that doesn't mean you have the ability to do so. Frustrated you may feel like you've failed, or feel the need to set boundaries... or just give up. The better choice is to accept that right now there are some things you can't do, whatever the reason, and until whatever is holding you back changes its something you won't be able to do. Will it always be that way... who knows... I can't read the future and I suspect neither can you. Can you say you will never do something... you can say it, but you don't really know that.



Padriag, you never seem to stop amazing me. I stated in an earlier post yesterday on this thread that I thought it possible to balace the things out. Specially when trying to find out if he can gt his submissive or slave to change their mind about certain things that are considered hard limits. One doesn't know unless it's brought up from time to time in a growing relationship.

Example: I at one time.... many moons ago was a 24/7 slave. Not a sub. (Actually looking back it depends on who defines that word now days) Reguardless.... after the death of my first Master.... I became more submissive. Never finding the one to actually serve 24/7 after that untill my former Master. I gave my all to him. Even had kids, that at the time, I really didn't want to have. (Lord knows I would never trade them for anything in the world now) Now over the past 9 and half years sense the split I find myself back on the submissive side of things. Not the slave side. I have even more limits now, than ever before. And 1 major hard limit. Those knowing me on here and my previous rants know what that is.

I long to be able to be 24/7 again. I just can't do that now while still being a full time single mother. Master knows this as well. He accepts this and knows that I look forward to the day that I can again. But we're not pushing it. Not trying to get kids out the door fast just so I can strictly be 24/7 again. It's something that is going to take time, and work itself out.

So really I don't think it's just the submissives or slaves that have to try to balance the relationship as well. It all comes in the knowing things up front before entering into said relationship. Do I ever think I'll be 24/7 again? Well mine are teens now.... and Master is starting over. He's a single father with one not even in school yet. (So much for waiting only 3-4 more years... LOL) As much as I thought my day of tending to little ones was finally over... here he comes with another. But you know what, All though this isn't what I had planned for me. I accept it because this who I want to be with and who wants to be with me. Reguardless of baggage (GOD I HATE THAT WORD) So now we both have to deal with balancing. We both do the best that we can for each other. That's all anyone can do.That's all anyone can ask for. To expect more than that right from the start.... well I won't even go there. All it will do is pist some off and start another rant going... LOL

Good Luck all....

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 1/13/2006 6:48:42 AM >

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:46:26 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44




Subs 'negotiate' a hard limit and that is it. No if ands or buts. If he is pushing to cross that line........ well, if you stay with him thats your stupidity.


For those of you that can't wrap your little heads around this.......... well tough shit. Is this right for everyone? No, but I'm not in this for everyone. I'm in it for me and these rules are what works for me and my slaves. If things are different for you then fine, happy for ya. But I really don't care. This thread has been four pages of bullhit so far that has little to do with the OP. If you have to express something of little relevance, create a new thread. Don't highjack this one.



Damn, someone piss in your cheerios this morning?

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 9:08:15 AM   
Hallittlelolita


Posts: 253
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		i think soneone did lol my Master knows simple no scat, no needles, no cutting, He dosent like any of those anyway but thats it those are what we dont participate in.

Sincerely slavegirl andie and her Master Hal
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44




Subs 'negotiate' a hard limit and that is it. No if ands or buts. If he is pushing to cross that line........ well, if you stay with him thats your stupidity.


For those of you that can't wrap your little heads around this.......... well tough shit. Is this right for everyone? No, but I'm not in this for everyone. I'm in it for me and these rules are what works for me and my slaves. If things are different for you then fine, happy for ya. But I really don't care. This thread has been four pages of bullhit so far that has little to do with the OP. If you have to express something of little relevance, create a new thread. Don't highjack this one.



Damn, someone piss in your cheerios this morning?


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 12:40:21 PM   
nelbot


Posts: 95
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline 		here we are talking about consensual slavery.... if the slave is told he/she must do something that is a hard limit then the only real choice is to continue being a slave to this person or not. While the concept of slave means theoretically that they have no limits; that is where negotiation comes in. Things that are hard limits need to be discussed prior to entering into conditions of slavery so that it is clear that if a certain condition or set of conditions come into play the slave will be put in a position to reevaluate thier slavery based on the Master/Mistress changing the conditions under which the slave signed on. We can wax romantic all day long about slaves having no rights of refusal, no slave veto, no say in their position should there be a radical change of circumstances, etc... but we are still discussing consensual slavery here and the slave still has the right to rescind their consent for any and all reasons, that is the point of consent, is it not? If this is not the case then it is not consensual or am I mistaken? The last decision a slave makes is to be a slave- but that is a decision that the slave makes everyday, every minute.

_____________________________

In life there are no winners, only saints and sinners
of pleasure and pain both have their gain for
what is a devil but an angel in bondage?

(in reply to tasha_tart)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 3:24:30 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

No further detail is necessary, as, everyone is different, and entitled to follow their own path.


Nods. I'll drink to that.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:28:57 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Shall I now point something out? "Power" is being used (in at least my discussions) as "right or authority given to a person", not the physical resources inherent in oneself to act, despite consequences. You had some really good points earlier on in the thread, but I must tell you (with all due respect) that I and others of like-mind will "bandy about" who we are and what we do as much as we wish. WE do not dishonor slavery. We practice it.

I had to look at three dictionaries before I could find one that listed this as a tertiary sense of the word power. Maybe you looked at my third dictionary first but if you canvas a few more you might see that in none of them is this given as a primary or even secondary sense of the word power. In any case I hope you will appreciate that I took your criticism seriously enough to go to the bookshelf in response. If you mean right or authority how nice it would be if you would simply say "right" or "authority."

So let me put this in terms of rights and it certainly does bear on the original post.

If your "owner" contracts a disease of which the symptoms include bizarre behavior and he starts telling you to iron his cat and cook lumber for dinner I fully expect you will exercise your inherent right to say "What's up with this?" rather than destroy his beloved pet and go on an all-fiber diet. I would expect, for instance, wipmebeetme100 to do the same thing, her claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

If instead of killing his pet you learn that your "owner" is likely beset by an awful disease that runs in his family and may permanently disable or kill him you might very well take some step toward getting him diagnosed and cured.

Or you might iron the cat and start to sautee some two-by-fours, I guess.

The simple fact is that even as a BDSM slave you have this right and oif you are also a loving partner you have this obligation: to take the situation into account and make a decision to exercise your will either in keeping with his commands or in opposition to them. That is to say that you as a BDSM slave do indeed have the right and in some sorts of cases the obligation to decline an instruction.

Or do you really wish to hold that the BDSM slave lacks the right to disobey for the sake of, say, saving her master's life? That a BDSM slave truly gives over all rights?

The point is not one that only comes into play in a case as unlikely--though quite possible--as the one I cite. The point is that it is in the nature of things that whether you call them rights or whether you call them powers, and regardless of whether you have dedicated your rights or powers to the service of another, they are still your rights. The United States Declaration of Independence--whatever you may thinkof it politically--uses the term unalienable and it fits.

The beauty of BDSM slavery to me is in the very dedication of those (extant)rights to one's dominant--whatever name you want to call him by. Admitting the fact that you have rights in no way diminishes or tarnishes your devotion to the person you choose to see as your owner. But the example of the mental illness shows that you do indeed choose your slavery anew every day and every hour. It wasn't all cast in concrete at your collaring ceremony last year. It lives and breathes, or the cat gets it, as it were.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
I tire.

Whereas I invigorate.

As for those who have said "this question is a difficult thing and others have struggled against it without success so just give up," well I don't rule out the difficult nor in certain cases the unprecedented. Every worthwhile bit of clarity came out of a previous lack of clarity. Sit this one out if you like. That's fine. I feel that this is worth working on.

And it simply isn't the case that no value is gained until all parties agree. Clarity propagates one mind at a time.


(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 6:40:07 PM   
IceyOne


Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

A submissive has the right to use a safeword if they feel they can not do something.
A Dominant has the right to throw the submissive to the curb if they feel the submissive uses its safeword too often.

A slave has no safeword to use.
If a slave feels they need to cross the line between slave and submissive then they need to evaluate why they have the limit and re-evaluate why they submitted to the title of slave in the first place.


I agree with this totally. But to answer the OP, I would look and try to understand WHY it was such a hard limit. And WHY you could not do it. After doing some good hard soulsearching into that, I would then sit down with my Dominant and discuss what was learned, and go from there.

(in reply to ZenrageTheKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 7:12:13 PM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline 		I hope this isn't off topic, but the question that comes to mind after reading all the responses is not whether a Master has the right to push a hard limit, but rather, would He?

I tend to see two possibilities happening.

1. The slave becomes distrustful, worn down, resentful, angry, resistant, etc. toward the Master due to a lack of trust over a broken word, or wondering what other unexpected/unpleasant things might suddenly be in store.

2. A deeper level of trust is forged with the breaking down of a barrier in the slave's mind.

I wonder, is the possibility of #2 worth the risk of #1? Is it an acceptable casualty?

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to IceyOne)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Balance - 1/13/2006 7:15:44 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Ya know folks....

.... build a damn life boat.



Ditto!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 3:20:14 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

I hope this isn't off topic, but the question that comes to mind after reading all the responses is not whether a Master has the right to push a hard limit, but rather, would He?

I tend to see two possibilities happening.

1. The slave becomes distrustful, worn down, resentful, angry, resistant, etc. toward the Master due to a lack of trust over a broken word, or wondering what other unexpected/unpleasant things might suddenly be in store.

2. A deeper level of trust is forged with the breaking down of a barrier in the slave's mind.

I wonder, is the possibility of #2 worth the risk of #1? Is it an acceptable casualty?

You raise an excellent point and I think it is very much on topic and goes directly to what the OP was asking about.

You're right, the first possibility is a very real one when pushing a submissives limits (and in my experience with dealing with this kind of thing, it doesn't matter if they're a sub or a slave, its a human problem). It can cause them to feel like a failure, tear down their self esteem, generate a negative self image, break down the trust, and ultimately destroy the relationship. Feelings of anger, resentment, bitterness, doubt, self doubt are all very real possibilities.

To get the second possible outcome it has to be handled carefully by the dominant. That means identifying what is causing the limit and dealing with that first. If a submissive, for example, can't handle being blind folded without having panic attacks the question should be, "What causes the panic attack?" I have seen some blindfold the submissive anyway, hoping to desensitize them to it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and when it doesn't the results are usually traumatic and leave the submissive with more issues than they began with. That kind of shot in the dark approach is both dangerous and foolish... and also unnecessary.

So, identify the barrier first, work on removing it. When its gone, the limit usually disappears as well.

Sometimes you can't remove the barrier. For example a submissive may only have a certain tolerance for pain and can't progress beyond that point. They might endure a little more just to please the dominant (even though it really is hurting them) but too much beyond and you end up with a traumatized submissive who begins to doubt their dominant rather than trust. That's an outcome any dominant worth his salt will try to avoid.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to valeca)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 5:06:13 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Amayos, I can appreciate that there are some that have a need to be seen as the MOST EXTREME, the BE ALL END ALL of Masters, it's an ego thing and we understand that. But this type of behavior in a public forum is irresponsible and dangerous. Knowing how malleable and impressionable that some subs/slaves can be, how much they crave and need the approval of the Dominants they choose, how can you even imply that a slave doesn't even have the right to protect it's own life?

If you truly do believe that then I just have to ask, what is it that you make your slaves out of? Plastic? Rubber?


The above post best sums up the problem with the statement by Amayos that said slaves give up the rights of human beings. One of the main purposes of places like CollarMe is to foster understanding and respect for all. You are not gaining respect by saying shock value things like that. Most Doms are here because we value submissives and many of us have slaves that we treasure as submissive human beings and treat with the utmost respect...even if we humiliate the heck out of them now and then :).


_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 7:22:15 AM   
dulcent


Posts: 4
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		[blasphemy alert]a submissive or slave's first responsibility is to themselves. [end blasphemy alert]so often i see girls (my perspective, no offense boys) post complaints about how this Dom did this or that Master didn't do that...

a competent submissive (if you will) like a great Master will choose her complimentary wisely.

why so many seem to think that the moment the collar goes on the brain turns off is beyond my comprehension. slavery is an active exercise... a fluid process. discussions do not end... sharing your thoughts and feelings doesn't stop... if he respected and admired your intelligences enough to honor you with his Dominance do you honestly think he expects you to cease utilizing them once ownership is in place?

if things aren't progressing well take responsibility for your choices, recall why you wanted to be dominated by this individual to begin with... what did you expect to learn, how did you want to grow, what did you ASK for... and why, if once you begin to get it do you balk? others have said sit with it... process it, learn from it... but for g-d's sake please do remember to include the one who is involved in the con versation.

< Message edited by dulcent -- 1/14/2006 7:23:09 AM >

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 10:07:28 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

Most Doms are here because we value submissives and many of us have slaves that we treasure as submissive human beings and treat with the utmost respect...even if we humiliate the heck out of them now and then :).



Once again, I am not here to impress or gain 'respect' (I could really care less about the collective approval), but to offer what is obviously here a minority truth. A submissive human being does not equal slave. They are two things entirely. Is a slave submissive? Yes. Is a submissive a slave? No.

What is a slave? (again): A person who is property of and wholly subject to another; a person entirely under the control of another person.

Wholly subject to means just that. Think of slave in any lesser term, and you are speaking of a submissive, who holds certain rights and powers.

Edited to add: If you disagree, I suppose at this drawn out juncture we will agree to disagree.


< Message edited by amayos -- 1/14/2006 10:21:04 AM >

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 10:10:20 AM   
ZenrageTheKeeper


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne


quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

A submissive has the right to use a safeword if they feel they can not do something.
A Dominant has the right to throw the submissive to the curb if they feel the submissive uses its safeword too often.

A slave has no safeword to use.
If a slave feels they need to cross the line between slave and submissive then they need to evaluate why they have the limit and re-evaluate why they submitted to the title of slave in the first place.


I agree with this totally. But to answer the OP, I would look and try to understand WHY it was such a hard limit. And WHY you could not do it. After doing some good hard soulsearching into that, I would then sit down with my Dominant and discuss what was learned, and go from there.


Agreed.

(in reply to IceyOne)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 10:24:06 AM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

I hope this isn't off topic, but the question that comes to mind after reading all the responses is not whether a Master has the right to push a hard limit, but rather, would He?

I tend to see two possibilities happening.

1. The slave becomes distrustful, worn down, resentful, angry, resistant, etc. toward the Master due to a lack of trust over a broken word, or wondering what other unexpected/unpleasant things might suddenly be in store.

2. A deeper level of trust is forged with the breaking down of a barrier in the slave's mind.

I wonder, is the possibility of #2 worth the risk of #1? Is it an acceptable casualty?


Why would he? Any number of reasons might obtain including that his partner asked for help in exploring this thing. But maybe the cases where the submissive partner asks for this help can be reasonably ruled out of this particular discussion if we agree to say that once the submissive asks for this assitance the limit is no longer hard.

Why else might he? Well generally it probably shouldn't be his business to. Presumably there is a lot of ground to explore and enjoy within the boundaries. Hopefully, though, if this couple has advanced to a state of BDSM slavery they know one another very well. It is not uncommon in my experience for a person to understand a beloved friend in a certain way that the friend doesn't understand him or herself. If the dominant sees with the clearest eye he can bring that this limit might be worth exploring and proceeds with complete integrity in terms of the established relationship then just maybe the result could be valeca's option #2.

I would kind of hope that the situation would never present itself such that valeca's option #1 would result, though I acknowledge the possibility. It seems to me that the situation here would boil down to the one partner nagging the other. Nagging sucks in general and in particular it is hard to see particul;arly domly, right? I do some pretty convoluted and even edgey psychological and emotional sadism but even with that background I can hardly imagine a productive and non-destructive (nodding to valeca's analysis) use of nagging-as-kink where the subject of the nagging is a hard limit.

Now maybe some submissives would like to explore nagging if they happen to have it in their background as a parental dynamic and are into the Daddy or Mommy thing. Or maybe someone would "want" to be nagged in a context that had something to do with humiliation, one way or the other. But to have that nagging be about a hard limit would be very dicey at best.

Here is the one exception I can envision and it sure doesn't seem to be the case with the original poster's situation.

If the submissive is first of all very much into humiliation and secondly holds a perfectly hard limit but one the origins or funadamental nature of which she doesn't herself understand (nodding here to Padiag's insight about the barrier behind the limt) then then she might "agree" to be nagged about it. I put agree in quotes as it might need to be a tacit agreement or it might not. Emotional edge play often involves poking a person's very most tender spots and a certain hard limit might be such a spot for a submissive who in principle appreciates the notion of limitlessness. An occasionally recurring poke here might be positive in one of two ways.

First it might simply provide a does of humiliation which one or both parties would appreciate in terms that they understand and desire whether you and I do or not.

Secondly, being prodded about this limit, now in the morning and some other day at night; now at play and some other time at rest, now while happy and another time while sad ... one of these or a combination of them might stir in the person holding the limit some insight into the nature of that barrier which Padriag has pointed toward. The result might either be a more comfortable understanding/acceptance of the limit on the part of the person holding it or it might lead to easing of the limit.

In reply to valeca's latter question, we might guess that such an obscure outcome might seldom--almost never--be worth the risks entailed but for a certain couple at a certain juncture it might not be ruled out.


(in reply to valeca)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 10:27:03 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dulcent


a competent submissive (if you will) like a great Master will choose her complimentary wisely.


I agree.

quote:

why so many seem to think that the moment the collar goes on the brain turns off is beyond my comprehension.


I don't think anyone argues that point.

(in reply to dulcent)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Balance - 1/14/2006 10:45:52 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

If you mean right or authority how nice it would be if you would simply say "right" or "authority."


Power is synonymous with authority and right, but you are correct; my error for assuming some would not read it that way.


quote:

The simple fact is that even as a BDSM slave you have this right...


You put your finger on something that has not yet been clarified. If you are one who prefers a definition of the word slave as BDSM jargon, all you say is understandable.

quote:

And it simply isn't the case that no value is gained until all parties agree. Clarity propagates one mind at a time.


I'm not sure how you intended that comment, but it sounded eerily Borgish to me.

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 80
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