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Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 2:21:49 PM

needngreed

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/6/2009
Status: offline

I have, after a very long hiatus, have been working periodically with a Dom to build some trust. My problem, I have hard limits that have been that way forever and he wants me to lower them and give him that element. Now, it's not like I have them (Dom's) beating down my door or that in 5 years I have found anyone that I have trusted nearly as much as he, but I left his home hysterical after being GIVEN THE CHOICE of whether or not I was ready to do what he asked. I was crushed, not because of him, but because of what was going on. My problem is a serious hang up over documentation of any sort that can be linked back to me. Now granted, when I am not even in a compromising position, I hate this activity. So much so that this dates back to childhood and turning over a new leaf doesn't happen overnight, especially with a phobia this strong. I do love him, but our styles are very different, but his guidance has been strong and he has NEVER given me a reason to doubt his word, AND I knew what I was going into when I went.

I need advice on how to deal with how I feel, how I have found myself (extremely depressed) and possibly with the idea that I may never be able to return to him because of where he took me, even though I walked into it knowing what he wanted. Is this the end of my journey?

In desperate need of guidance and thoughts...

Post #: 1

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 2:30:17 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Has he contacted you to give support and aftercare? Did he know it was a phobia rather than a soft limit? Are you wrong for getting yourself to a place of personal/emotional safety because it got too intense and went bad in your head? NO!!!!!! YOUR SAFETY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR YOU TO CONSIDER!

Yes you will be able to face him and talk about it and yes you will find peace (of some sort) about this not so great of a time.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 2

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 2:31:27 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Stop sniveling over being true to yourself. Stop accepting someone because they are "only a Class D loser willing to give me the time of day"

You decide what this is the beginning or end of. Being with him in that dynamic has led you to this state. Is that what you want for the rest of your life? Is it worth being able to say "I'm in a relationship" knowing you'll always follow that with "a class D loser who doesn't care about my sense of self or our security"?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 3

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 2:39:41 PM

needngreed

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/6/2009
Status: offline

I have written down some thoughts and sent them to him. It has been several days and I am still in a fog. I desperately wanted to hear his voice, and so broke down and called him. He made it very short and said he would be in touch when he has put everything in line. I left in a very bad head space, said some extremely bad things and so he is angry (which I don't blame him) for how I left, leaving him to wonder if I would get home or not. I DID call him and told him I arrived home fine, but have found myself sick to my stomach, depressed and extremely withdrawn from everything else around me. My anger has subsided some, but now, I am not quite sure if I should leave the situation as he explained that I would never wear a collar unless I could oblige him in this kink and another that I have a great fear of (although I know that I am very safe and he wouldn't let anything happen to me) it's just major fear on my part and something I have never took part in.

Yes, he know of my phobia long before, but the hard part for me was that I was so needy that I agreed to the terms of the visit (after the visit had been planned several days before and yet the day of, he divulged to me to expect what he knew would be a huge step for me). He gave me a choice... I made the wrong one. Like I always seem to do. My safety wasn't in jeapordy.... it was and is a deep seeded fear that I have never over come and have never had someone push me so abruptly. I know if things had gone slower, and maybe taken in smaller steps and not such a jolt to my psychi I may have dealt better... but now, not sure if I am more confused than ever.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 4

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 3:50:48 PM

oneserene

Posts: 9
Status: offline

I'm sorry that you are going through this and even more so, I'm sorry that you seem to be in love with him because he obviously doesn't care about your emotional boundaries if any boundaries at all. He hasn't treated you with caring and concern in person since the incident and then cut the call short??!! I'm very sorry but you need to RUN not walk away as quickly as you can. I made some very similar mistakes not too long ago and what little trust that I was capable of before has been completely eliminated forever.

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 5

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 3:59:16 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

I'm definitely getting bad vibes off this. I'd just move on. It really doesn't come off as if he cares for your safety and well being. No aftercare, pushing a limit that from your first post came off as a hard limit not soft. Yeah he gave you the choice, you say. How did he give you the choice? Was it a do this or it's over or was it a let's work to overcome this fear? Sounds like the former to me. Just the way it's coming off from your posts. Doesn't sound like he cares much about you from your posts. I'd move on. There's better out there and taking your time, getting to really know someone and not letting them push you into something you are not ready for will do loads for your peace of mind and ability to serve and submit.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to oneserene)

Post #: 6

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 4:12:31 PM

angelwithhonor

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline

....what ever happen about the respect of ones limits ..i know ones are pushed but mentally some can not be. if you are this upset with what and how He has dealt with your phopeas and fears...sorry where did that trust lie agian?? Your safety mentally and physically is number job of His. good luck truly look deeper and find that this Dom isnt for you..but we are the ones looking out the box looking in your in the box wanting to look out. good luck..

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 7

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:05:35 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: needngreed

In desperate need of guidance and thoughts...

don't risk what you can't afford to lose..

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 8

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:07:19 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

So you hate pictures? Is that what you mean by "documentation"?

Some phobias are pretty difficult to understand. Others, not so much. Heights, spiders, clowns, those are easy to understand. But many people are just so obnoxious about not wanting their pictures taken that they go to absurd lengths and put a damper on an otherwise good time. And those are in non-kink situations.

Did he really understand that this is a phobia? Or did he think you were just being an obnoxious princess?

By the way, you say first that you "hate" the documentation, then later you call it a phobia. A phobia is a fear, it's not a hate. Which is it?

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 9

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:13:47 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

The problem here is, without knowing all the gory details and hearing the Dominant’s side too it is virtually impossible to give accurate advice; especially as each one of us have our own filters and will read the situation differently. However, the bottom line has to be your own health, including mental health, and safety. LA gave you some well timed sage advice. Harsh, very harsh but then we all at times need a slap in the face with a wet fish to jolt us back to reality. My personal view is to talk to the Dominant. Take it out of the dynamic and see if he is willing to really talk so you can explain precisely where you are and how it is affecting you. If this can’t be resolved, no matter what he may call you (and this will tell you a lot about him), it could be time to walk away. Just as I say to Dominants: “It is better to have an empty collar then have the wrong person in your collar”, the reverse is also true: “It is far better to be uncollared than to be in the wrong collar!”

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to angelwithhonor)

Post #: 10

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:28:10 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

Just in case you want a different viewpoint...

He's being dominant and no longer wants to be dominated by your limits. It could have nothing to do with respect, and everything to do with trust.

The hardest thing about submitting, from a dominant's viewpoint, is submitting beyond your comfort zone. Most don't do it. They 'submit' to what they enjoy, what turns them on, what they can believe they can handle. Sure, the 'lifestyle' has facilitated that concept; validating 'safe-words' and 'limits' as if they were the cornerstones of the 'one true way' to long term relationship. Its totally changed the dynamic where by pragmatic evaluation of what's going on, and who's permitting it to happen, the authority within the relationship isn't where you think it is.

It sounds to me like he's a dominant who whats to dominate. Having the authority doesn't mean he has to use it. Having it, may be enough. Of course this could just be a ruse to abuse you. Therein is the dilemma, and the only questions you have to answer to make your decision at this cross-road. Do you know him? Do you know yourself?

I can't understand the apparent problem and shocked response that people have when a professed sadist is sadistic or a dominant isn't into being a sensation facilitator, and wants to dominate under their own terms and not those 'permitted' by the sensation seeking submissive. There are more than enough facilitators to go around; confident dominants are another matter.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 11

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:42:36 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Merc,

I get where you are coming from and agree if the guy is a decent human being.

However, I smell asshole on this guy. Telling someone to drop her limits to show "trust" is cheesy. Its the D/s equivelent of saying " you would do it if you really loved me" crap.

LA is right, find someone who makes you FEEL like letting go of your boundaries, not one who has to GUILT you to do it.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 12

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:43:15 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: needngreed

I have written down some thoughts and sent them to him. It has been several days and I am still in a fog. I desperately wanted to hear his voice, and so broke down and called him. He made it very short...

This man does not care about you.

He is showing his complete lack of concern for you by his actions right now. If he did care about you and your well-being, he'd have been freely communicating to you after this incident. What he does care about is his own agenda, and his own petty feelings. Not yours, his.

That's why he is letting the anger and hurt feelings fester, when someone who cared about you would have been communicating quite a bit with you in order for you both to resolve them and learn from the experience.

You know that what I'm saying is true, because this is how you have been handling the situation, because you care about him. You have been reaching out and communicating to him. He has been sitting back licking his wounds, and enjoying your pain. Do not allow this hurtful dynamic to go any further. He will continue to enjoy causing you to fall more and more to pieces, if you let him. You must save yourself from this awful man.

When he finally does contact you again and says that he cares about you, remember his actions. Tell yourself that you need and deserve someone who shows by his actions that he cares deeply about you. Your feelings. Your well-being.

....he explained that I would never wear a collar unless I could oblige him in this kink and another that I have a great fear of...

Your needs don't match.

Explain this to him in a very brief message, in which you wish him well but are adamant that the two of you are not a good fit together at all, and that you refuse to waste any more of your precious time. Period. Don't listen to his side, just cut off all communication after that.

He gave me a choice... I made the wrong one. No-

You made the RIGHT choice.

You looked out for your own best interests. He did not. You did. Great job!
You did very well for yourself. He failed you.

You don't need him.

I know if things had gone slower, and maybe taken in smaller steps and not such a jolt to my psychi I may have dealt better...

Yes, exactly! You knew things weren't proceeding in a healthy way for you, so you stopped the activity. You took good care of yourself. Keep up the great work!

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 13

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 5:58:11 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

LOL Merc but according to beth, submitting is her fetish and she never has discomfort from that, she never has sub drop and she's never admitted any serious upsetting reactions to obeying any of your commands. So it's hard to speak from a personal perspective there.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 14

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 6:11:43 PM

NCNutCase

Posts: 129
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

The problem here is, without knowing all the gory details and hearing the Dominant’s side too it is virtually impossible to give accurate advice;

This, in my opinion, is the best advice given thus far in this thread...

With the information given thus far, to suggest you move forward in your submission to this man would be possibly risking your best interests... yet just as true, suggesting this man doesn't care and you should walk away is risking just as much... Encouraging you and assisting you in analyzing the situation to make your own best decision is the only logical thing we can do... I wish you were given more logical advice thus far...

Is the impression correct that by wanting to 'document' your scene or part of it he wanted to take photos or video? I can completely understand someone not wanted compromising pictures of them floating around. Yet as a Dom, being trusted is my biggest high in SM. Having someone be vulnerable to me, and feel safe in that vulnerability is a pure joy in and of itself. Naturally it becomes my job to earn that level of trust, but as one earns trust, if trust is not given, frustration and dissappointment is sure to come instead.

I'm not going to be arrogant enough to make vulgar assumptions in anyone's favor here. I can only say I can see how this situation could be a couple of different ways. I hope you give this situation fair consideration and do not simply hang someone because a couple people on the internet chose to assume on your behalf...

Best of luck in finding what's in your best interests...

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 15

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 6:55:06 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

How can you say you are safe with him when he deliberately used your phobias against you to put you into this very bad place? He may not break your arm, but he sure is causing you emotional damage.

You deserve better than him. You deserve someone who cares about you more than about getting his itch scratched. This person is no different than a high school boy threatening to break up with you if you don't have sex with him.

Anyone who would do this to you is not someone you are safe with. And you really think that when he doesn't care about your mental distress that he would be trustworthy not to post your naked pics all over the net? I'm assuming that's what you meant by documentation. He isn't trustworthy, don't do it and don't let him manipulate you again.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to NCNutCase)

Post #: 16

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 8:09:47 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Merc,

I get where you are coming from and agree if the guy is a decent human being.
However, I smell asshole on this guy. Telling someone to drop her limits to show "trust" is cheesy. Its the D/s equivalent of saying " you would do it if you really loved me" crap.
LA is right, find someone who makes you FEEL like letting go of your boundaries, not one who has to GUILT you to do it.

Michael,
That's exactly the point I was making about the two questions. You HAVE to know him/her and not have doubt about whether he's an 'asshole' or not. Any doubt - don't let him manipulate you by guilt, or any other method, like preying on your desperation.

quote:

LOL Merc but according to beth, submitting is her fetish and she never has discomfort from that, she never has sub drop and she's never admitted any serious upsetting reactions to obeying any of your commands. So it's hard to speak from a personal perspective there.

That would be correct if beth were the only reference point. I don't believe she is unique in regard to her submission or in regards to her self awareness. My prior partners were similarly 'aware'. However, our 'awareness' concluded we didn't have the level of compatibility I share with beth.

That's not to say we didn't have a good time and enjoy each other, but awareness of issues, such as my requirements about outside employment, or manner of dress; didn't get us to the same place in a relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 17

RE: Pushing limits - 2/4/2009 10:02:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

That would be correct if beth were the only reference point. I don't believe she is unique in regard to her submission or in regards to her self awareness. My prior partners were similarly 'aware'. However, our 'awareness' concluded we didn't have the level of compatibility I share with beth.

That's not to say we didn't have a good time and enjoy each other, but awareness of issues, such as my requirements about outside employment, or manner of dress; didn't get us to the same place in a relationship.

So the issue really is then one of compatibility, not inability or refusal to submit. Beth never submits beyond her comfort zone, it's all already IN her comfort zone.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 18

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 12:05:57 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

It is my experience that a dominant will ask for, request or demand whatever it is he (she) wants. It's up to you then, to decide if you want to or are willing to provide it. It is OK to not be OK with something he wants. If you can't go there, you can't go there. But if that is the case, you may well be with the wrong person. This isn't the end of your journey; it is the beginning of your journey of learning what is OK with you and what is not. Getting to know and understand yourself is never a bad thing.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 19

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 1:25:49 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: needngreed

I have written down some thoughts and sent them to him. It has been several days and I am still in a fog. I desperately wanted to hear his voice, and so broke down and called him. He made it very short and said he would be in touch when he has put everything in line. I left in a very bad head space, said some extremely bad things and so he is angry (which I don't blame him) for how I left, leaving him to wonder if I would get home or not. I DID call him and told him I arrived home fine, but have found myself sick to my stomach, depressed and extremely withdrawn from everything else around me. My anger has subsided some, but now, I am not quite sure if I should leave the situation as he explained that I would never wear a collar unless I could oblige him in this kink and another that I have a great fear of (although I know that I am very safe and he wouldn't let anything happen to me) it's just major fear on my part and something I have never took part in.

Yes, he know of my phobia long before, but the hard part for me was that I was so needy that I agreed to the terms of the visit (after the visit had been planned several days before and yet the day of, he divulged to me to expect what he knew would be a huge step for me). He gave me a choice... I made the wrong one. Like I always seem to do. My safety wasn't in jeapordy.... it was and is a deep seeded fear that I have never over come and have never had someone push me so abruptly. I know if things had gone slower, and maybe taken in smaller steps and not such a jolt to my psychi I may have dealt better... but now, not sure if I am more confused than ever.

To be fair, you agreed to these things. If I agreed to something, I could hardly blast M for actually expecting me to do what I said I would. I expect HIM to do what HE says, after all.

You appear to have been quite well-informed about what to expect with this chap and agreeing to it and you also say he gave you a choice.

It's impossible to tell whether he's using your *neediness* or simply is expecting you to do what you say you will.

I see nothing wrong with him letting you know what he wants, whether its a lowering of your limits or anything else, when he gives you the choice of doing so or not.

agirl

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 20

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