RE: Pushing limits

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Pushing limits

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Pushing limits

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 2:19:08 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

FR

Hmm Im not going to say hes an asshole because well how the hell do I know, He wants certain things that you dont want. Well maybe then you shouldnt be together? If its this big a deal to both of you then its not going to work out. If you get into this much emotional turmoil over what seems to me to be a conversation about whether you will lower your limits, sorry if i got that wrong.

I am sorry that I am not waving the abuser card here but I dont think there is anything wrong with someone wanting something and not settling if that element isnt there.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 21

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 2:36:04 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So much so that this dates back to childhood and turning over a new leaf doesn't happen overnight, especially with a phobia this strong

I read over some of the responses here, and, of course, especially your attempts at describing something without describing it. Not to mention profile gems like "holes in my heart and caverns in my soul".

I am sorry, but you cannot, at 35, claim "phobias" from "childhood". People that attempt to control others' behaviour towards them by claiming a requirement that originated in the mist are usually in need of therapy - what you do is manipulative, and you clearly lack respect for others. And then you whine.... The "headspace" you claim is fully imaginative, and you probably need to be careful it does not turn into "headcase". The way you describe it here, I would suggest you don't try close relationships until you sort yourself out. It is not a "friend, mentor, or teacher" you need, but simply a therapist, somebody you cannot manipulate. Nice try though.

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 22

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 7:24:37 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
That would be correct if beth were the only reference point. I don't believe she is unique in regard to her submission or in regards to her self awareness. My prior partners were similarly 'aware'. However, our 'awareness' concluded we didn't have the level of compatibility I share with beth.

That's not to say we didn't have a good time and enjoy each other, but awareness of issues, such as my requirements about outside employment, or manner of dress; didn't get us to the same place in a relationship.

So the issue really is then one of compatibility, not inability or refusal to submit. Beth never submits beyond her comfort zone, it's all already IN her comfort zone.

No. I don't submit to her 'comfort zone', she submits to mine.

It's knowing and being able to trust the other person so you don't need or have a 'comfort zone'. There are no shortcuts, safe-words or limits, to get there. There is an appearance of "compatibility" because by outside observation it appears that way. Meanwhile, both sides can be feeling conflict, but are comfortable because of of the trust they share. That's the only comfort zone that is important.

On the simplest level, sensations, the intensity may be way beyond any physical 'comfort zone'. beth's may be tapping into her submission to process the sensation but again that only works to produce pleasure because she trusts not only me - but my knowledge of her.

We both exceed our physical comforts zones. I've gone with her to see 'Blue Man Group' - TWICE!

However getting focused back on the OP. I appreciate the need to enable the submissive to consider her own personal comfort zone and any 'baggage' she carried into the relationship. We all have baggage and history that needs to be processed through the 'getting to know you' period when considering a relationship; vanilla or flavored. Stipulating to all the possible 'bad intent'; I think that consideration should also be given to a more basic transition of control. A 'dominant' may start out only wanting to hold a flogger handle, he/she may ultimately want to hold your mind. It's not about intensity, it is about control, even if that control is never used.

I think it's important that anyone seeing themselves as a submissive realizes that although a dominant may begin a relationship under a dynamic where the submissive maintains most of the power and control; down the road that may change. There may come a time when he/she may require the submissive abdicate that power and live up to the first definition in the dictionary for the words dominant and submissive; without the crutches limits or safe-words.

It is not required or necessary. The sensations, regardless of who is in control, are enjoyable and no less fulfilling. Some would say that some people what 'more'. It's not really about wanting 'more' its about wanting something different - 'power', 'control', 'authority' without question; with or without the physical sensation. Many who call themselves and who are 'pain sluts', would never relinquish that part of themselves.They can't, don't want to, or fear how they will mentally and emotionally process the experience should they relinquish all control. People who consider their relationship a total power exchange, wouldn't inflict or receive a similar intensity of sensation.

A 'seat for every ass'; that doesn't have anything to do with the shade of red.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/5/2009 7:31:27 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 9:23:11 AM

needngreed

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/6/2009
Status: offline

Thank you for all of your insight and input. Despite the lack of knowledge that you, Anitpote, have first hand about what I have personally endured in my lifetime, you are entitled to speak your mind. Everyone handles things differently than others and I assure you, there isn't much that you can know about this unless you have experienced it first hand from my perspective. Your input is the most valuable, but can say it's only to point out to me that not everyone is judgemental. My profile 'gems' as you call them are just that. Written words. They only represent what I wanted to write about, not who I am. You can only find that out by talking to me personally which has become very obvious, you haven't even gotten through the front door. This post is a leggitimate way to get unbiased help from unbiased individuals. Think about that next time you decide to down play a person. The ONLY ATTEMPTED manipulation is from you. Thanks for being the only 'ankle' in the bunch.

As for others who offered advice, helped me see things a bit more clearly and at the same time, given me heartfelt advice. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Sometimes it just is good to get those points of views that we are sometimes unable to see ourselves.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 12:07:22 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

If I may, needngreed:

Your profile text- all that stuff about lacking confidence, and holes in your heart, caverns in your soul.... That's going to attract sharks, like blood in the water.
If you do not change your profile text and your approach, you are apt to get the same result, over and over. Bullies and cowards look for weak people, to hurt. If this is the profile text your "mentor" saw, that attracted him to you, then its no mystery how you got hurt. You let yourself. You might as well have waved a big sign at him that said "your next victim, right here!"

You need to stop with the victim mentality, for your own good. Antipode is right about that. I think his main points are solid, which seem to me to be: stuff that happened to you when you were a kid, you couldn't help. But now you're grown. Now you must take responsibility for your own actions, and your own healing. Therapy would be a good place to start, and I also agree with him that you won't be ready for a (lover, mentor, dom, whatever) until you make some more significant progress on your own. You need to gain self-esteem, and confidence IMHO.

Whatever happened to us when we were young, if we don't take charge of our life and get over it when we're older, then our abusers have won. It is almost as if we are letting them reach out from our past and re-injure us with each new day, if we do not take proper steps to overcome the effects of our past abuse.

I think you thought you were doing that, and you backslid when you let yourself get in deeper than you were really ready for, with this "dom".

You are strong. So don't act weak. Stop second guessing your own best judgement. (except about your profile text, lol!) Portray yourself as the strong, capable woman you are.

Do the things you know that you need to do to gain confidence and self esteem. For example: go to school, get a better job, take up a new hobby or sport, join a club, learn a new skill or improve on one you have. Set goals for yourself, and measure your progress until you achieve them. Then set new goals.

...And/or whatever else you think would do the trick but above all: continue to be true to yourself.

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 25

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 1:20:17 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

G’day needngreed. I’m going to agree with what dreamerdreaming said (Highlighted text) said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

If I may, needngreed:

Your profile text- all that stuff about lacking confidence, and holes in your heart, caverns in your soul.... That's going to attract sharks, like blood in the water.
If you do not change your profile text and your approach, you are apt to get the same result, over and over. Bullies and cowards look for weak people, to hurt. If this is the profile text your "mentor" saw, that attracted him to you, then its no mystery how you got hurt. You let yourself. You might as well have waved a big sign at him that said "your next victim, right here!"

You need to stop with the victim mentality, for your own good. Antipode is right about that. I think his main points are solid, which seem to me to be: stuff that happened to you when you were a kid, you couldn't help. But now you're grown. Now you must take responsibility for your own actions, and your own healing. Therapy would be a good place to start, and I also agree with him that you won't be ready for a (lover, mentor, dom, whatever) until you make some more significant progress on your own. You need to gain self-esteem, and confidence IMHO.

Whatever happened to us when we were young, if we don't take charge of our life and get over it when we're older, then our abusers have won. It is almost as if we are letting them reach out from our past and re-injure us with each new day, if we do not take proper steps to overcome the effects of our past abuse.

I think you thought you were doing that, and you backslid when you let yourself get in deeper than you were really ready for, with this "dom".

You are strong. So don't act weak. Stop second guessing your own best judgement. (except about your profile text, lol!) Portray yourself as the strong, capable woman you are.

Do the things you know that you need to do to gain confidence and self esteem. For example: go to school, get a better job, take up a new hobby or sport, join a club, learn a new skill or improve on one you have. Set goals for yourself, and measure your progress until you achieve them. Then set new goals.

...And/or whatever else you think would do the trick but above all: continue to be true to yourself.

You need to tear out the highlighted comments from your profile:

quote:

I guess it is time for me to write something here, but nearly quite as confident about what to write other than I am only looking to find a friend, mentor or teacher now. Someone who is there for conversation, support and fun (outside the bedroom) before the conversation turns to pressuring beyond. I come with walls, holes in my heart and caverns in my soul, but my brain is totally in tact. Up for a challenge... I am probably the biggest you will find. Open to conversation for now...

Antipode commented that anyone who still has problems dating from childhood is in need of therapy. This is not always the case and indeed my first action when I have a client/patient is to look at a counseling solution. A good counselor will listen to what you have to say and then with your assistance design a game plan for you to deal with these issues (providing you want to put those daemons to rest and not hide behind them), and coach you with the flexibility to help make changes to it as and when the situation changes. In reality a counselor will teach you coping techniques to deal with you specific problem as similar ones which may crop up in the future. What a lot of people fail to recognize in those who have suffered severe or long term abuse, is that the person has post traumatic stress disorder. Most folks think this is the province of victims of major natural or man made disasters or similar incidents as gone through by military vets, police and to a lesser degree firemen and paramedics. Not so we often see people suffering from this from personal incidents oft within a family. I know the feeling of worthlessness, hopelessness, not being able to trust and I also know what it is to, every morning place the barrel of a .44 magnum loaded and cocked in my mouth and have to make a hard decision if I want to see the day and at night the same thing asking myself if I can go through another nightmare filled night. Been there, done that and got through it with the help of a jolly good Vet turned counselor. Once you can get through the stage of having a victim mentality or being a professional victim, you are on the road to recovery.Be brave and the best of Aussie luck to you....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 26

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 1:51:05 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

Why thank you, IronBear....

*blushes*

I've always admired you from afar... And that's probably a good thing...

*giggles*

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 27

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 2:09:41 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Removes his hat and bows "Your most welcome M'Lady"

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 28

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 2:17:28 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for speaking up about PTSD in those with long term childhood trauma and abuse. The helplessness and nightmares are enough to make you doubt your worth, your sanity, and your strength. Years can go by and suddenly something comes up; a series of nightmares that keep you from getting quality sleep making your edgy/angry/depressed/dangerous (due to fatigue) or withdraw. Something on the new or in a movie throws you back into your memories and you physically and emotionally relive that moment.

But then you go months or days or years without a problem. With you on the gun, I just has to decide if it went in my mouth or pointed at a parent's head until I realized they lost. I wasn't bad or broken and i would never harm others the way they harmed me. I put down the gun and called child protective services myself.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 29

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 3:28:46 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I can't understand the apparent problem and shocked response that people have when a professed sadist is sadistic or a dominant isn't into being a sensation facilitator, and wants to dominate under their own terms and not those 'permitted' by the sensation seeking submissive. There are more than enough facilitators to go around; confident dominants are another matter.

I would say that a confident dominant should then be honest. If he/she wants one hundred percent submission, then he/she needs to tell those who do have limits that they are not a compatible match. I can respect that.
But from what I can glean from the OP, the dominant in question compromised himself by accepting a submissive who clearly had limits.
Confidence, in my mind, entails going without until you find the one that works. Isn’t that what you did?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 6:01:45 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

I can't understand the apparent problem and shocked response that people have when a professed sadist is sadistic or a dominant isn't into being a sensation facilitator, and wants to dominate under their own terms and not those 'permitted' by the sensation seeking submissive. There are more than enough facilitators to go around; confident dominants are another matter.

I would say that a confident dominant should then be honest. If he/she wants one hundred percent submission, then he/she needs to tell those who do have limits that they are not a compatible match. I can respect that.
But from what I can glean from the OP, the dominant in question compromised himself by accepting a submissive who clearly had limits.
Confidence, in my mind, entails going without until you find the one that works. Isn’t that what you did?

Well, this wouldn't indicate there was a long time of 'getting to know you'; "...have been working periodically with a Dom to build some trust." "Periodically" may mean this is his first opportunity to be "honest". As I said, a 'cross-road'.

It did take a long time to find beth, but it wasn't a lonely time. Being honest doesn't mean you don't enjoy people along the way, and I think its safe to say at least some - enjoyed being with me too. But there were times where one of us wanted more than the other was willing to give, and that was it.

It could be as simple as that in the case of the OP. However, I wouldn't put all the onus on him changing. He may have been pointing to this all along. That's the difficult part about commenting to someones relationship. There is no way possible all the pertinent details from both sides are provided. I thought a fair amount of the 'poor sub' was given. I wanted to be sure, the 'poor dom' side got some coverage too.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 31

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 6:50:04 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Yep, the submissive has responsibilities as well. If one has long standing limits, “hard limits that have been that way forever” as the OP put it, then it was on her to be realistic.
Perhaps it was a case of over-confidence on her part, arrogance on his.
Unfortunately it happens much too often!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 9:05:41 PM

scottishdove

Posts: 113
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline

needngreed, i think you have slanted the information you provide to get the answers you want.

You didn't say exactly what he asked you to do that provoked your hysterical reaction ('I left in a very bad head space, said some extremely bad things ').

I can only assume that is because if you did say what it was you were given a choice of, we would be saying things like "well, why get hysterical over that?'

for example, perhaps the choice was to have a sexual session put on video, with the express condition that the recording would remain in your possession, and you would view it together for both your pleasure.

in that case, i personally would think you were overreacting and his reaction would be totally understandable.

but if he wanted to record you without any such assurances, i would consider your reaction understandable, even if over the top.

you can say 'no, i don't think so' and just leave with dignity.

your overblown reaction was actually denial, not wanting to take responsiblity for making that decision to protect yourself, and refuse him.

you are allowed to do that, just face the consequences, which are obviously to accept the relationship may end or change.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 33

RE: Pushing limits - 2/5/2009 11:41:39 PM

bound4more

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: needngreed

I have, after a very long hiatus, have been working periodically with a Dom to build some trust. My problem, I have hard limits that have been that way forever and he wants me to lower them and give him that element. Now, it's not like I have them (Dom's) beating down my door or that in 5 years I have found anyone that I have trusted nearly as much as he, but I left his home hysterical after being GIVEN THE CHOICE of whether or not I was ready to do what he asked. I was crushed, not because of him, but because of what was going on. My problem is a serious hang up over documentation of any sort that can be linked back to me. Now granted, when I am not even in a compromising position, I hate this activity. So much so that this dates back to childhood and turning over a new leaf doesn't happen overnight, especially with a phobia this strong. I do love him, but our styles are very different, but his guidance has been strong and he has NEVER given me a reason to doubt his word, AND I knew what I was going into when I went.

I need advice on how to deal with how I feel, how I have found myself (extremely depressed) and possibly with the idea that I may never be able to return to him because of where he took me, even though I walked into it knowing what he wanted. Is this the end of my journey?

In desperate need of guidance and thoughts...

I have to agree with those here who wrote indicating that this dominant wants to do it his way. You know, one of the hardest lessons I've ever learned in life is "what is, is what is". It doesn't matter how emotional we get over something, how justified we may feel about a situation. It doesn't even really matter if we're completely right. It doesn't change what is. So from my perspective, if this dominant was interested in accepting and/or respecting your limits, then he'd have done that already - period.

Actually he's made himself very clear. Any relationship with him will be on his terms only. So the real choice here is can you accept that or not. Welcome to submission, baby.

Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not discompassionate. But something I had to come to terms with and I believe each of us do, is - is this a game or a way of life? And either one is fine. But we have to know what we're really doing. Once that question is answered honestly, we can proceed. Until fantasy and reality haven't separated in our mind and desires, then we will find ourselves in all kinds of crazy situations that create pain and hard feelings. So, with this man, you must give up wanting him to be what you want him to be and accept who he is. If your limits truly are important to you, then you, not he, need to respect that and seek someone else who will also respect them.

_____________________________

You can tell who someone really is by how they act

(in reply to needngreed)

Post #: 34

RE: Pushing limits - 2/6/2009 8:46:12 AM

NCNutCase

Posts: 129
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline

If we are right in that his desire to "document" her means taking pics or videos... there are many ways this can be done with absolutely minimal vulnerability... Such as deleting them before she leaves his place...

The OP has also said that even non-compromising 'documentation' has been something she does not like. Which, as mentioned earlier, is a pretty shallow and self-centered dislike. I also don't like getting my picture taken and rarely like the results, but I don't hide when a camera comes out.

Someone who hates the way a single tail stings, and makes that a hard limit... is a hard limit worth never pushing. It's something she doesn't like and she doesn't like it for a good reason... but having a hard limit of not willing to have your picture taken in any way is not a hard limit with a good reason behind it... unless there is a good reason she has failed to mention and I'm not creative enough to come up with (and look at my bondage, I'm a pretty creative guy ;-).

The OP described this Dom as someone she has been "working with periodically" but also states "Now, it's not like… that in 5 years I have found anyone that I have trusted nearly as much as he" and "I do love him". She also said she was "GIVEN THE CHOICE" to do what he asked and that she "knew what I was going into when I went" as well as "his guidance has been strong and he has NEVER given me a reason to doubt his word"….

All of these are exact quotes from the Original Post…

I honestly feel we do not have enough information to point fingers at anyone and say they own the responsibility of the mistake, and I honestly doubt any one person holds the full responsibility of any mistake. But I do feel there are some responses in this thread that are from people who are simply out to hang a Dom. Responses that completely overlook many details given in the original post and make even more assumptions of details not given. I do not blame the OP for fishing for specific responses, I blame the responders for not considering the details provided rationally…

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 35

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Pushing limits

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109