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Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 10:35:06 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I was reading in another thread and was going to ask this there, but didn't want no one saying a thread was being highjacked... LOL

So decided to start another. In this other thread I read a post that stated submission as a birthright. A birthright? I'm not quite sure submission or even Dominace is a birthright. But then again that's my own personal opinion.

But it would appear to others that there's such a thing as birthright to BDSM. So I'm ging to ask this question. If BDSM is a birthright, how does one know it? When does one learn this to be a birthright?

If unable to figure out your birthright. When did one come to terms with what they decided to be. Dominant, Master, submissive or slave? The choices we make in our lives on everyday basis are ones that can change our lives forever. But this one of those life choices we make that effect our lives on a daily basis.

No matter what side of the coin we sit on. Are we there by choice, need, desire, or birthright?

I'm for one do not think of it as a birthright. I found myself being a submissive out of my own choice and needs. My desires have always been to see who I am with happy. I can go back in mind and remember when and where I was, and doing when I was entered into this lifestyle I have chosen to live. I went willing. I've grown inside of myself and continue to grow within myself daily. And now I grow with another that has taken and seen me for me and wishes to see me grow further with him. Does he think it's a birthright? I don't know, I'll have to ask him when I talk to him next. I'm sure he'll have his own comments on this later.

So do others think of this as a birthright? Or a calling? A need, or a desire?

I know some will think this is a stupid question to ask. But I've seen it so many times in other threads, of people speaking of birthrights in BDSM. I'm curious as to what others think of this.
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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 10:49:19 AM   
Nuke718


Posts: 240
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		If I see the word birthright, I think of something that is true of you as an infant onward. So no I don't think any aspect of BDSM can be a birthright. Prince Charles has a Roytal Birthright by his family, but Nuke most of us do NOT socially or genetically inherit a predisposition to BDSM.

That's like the striaghts thinking that gay parents pass on a birthright of gayness to their kids LoL. BUT there is a similarity to gender orientation and BDSM. For some people either is a consious choice and for some people it is who they are. But again I don't feel even those "lifelong" kinksters got it from their family in the way that the word birthright suggests.

N }:-

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 10:55:21 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So do others think of this as a birthright? Or a calling? A need, or a desire?


Being owned is a need. A primary driving need in me. Being under the absolute authority of another drives me. There is no question of that for me.

Serving is not a need for me. I should say serving outside an ownership dynamic holds no appeal.

Sometimes being owned and serving are used to mean the same thing and they are not the same in my book.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 1/14/2006 10:56:29 AM >

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:01:07 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		Well said. I feel very similarly.

I =like= to be useful and helpful and of service to other people. I have a very strong "mommy" drive. But outside of an ownership dynamic it isn't -fufilling- in the same way.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:03:56 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		birthright

n 1: a right or privilege that you are entitled to at birth; "free public education is the birthright of every American child" 2: an inheritance coming by right of birth (especially by primogeniture) [syn: patrimony] 3: personal characteristics that are inherited at birth

I suppose that some who take Female or Male Supremacy to the extreme could argue that all F/M's depending on your particular brand have a "birthright" to dominance or submission, going by the 1st and 2nd definition supplied.

However, using the tertiary definition, I personally can make a strong case for my own female unmentionable, who has certainly inherited my Dominant personality and exhibits many traits of a Fem-Dom even at her very young age. And can even go one farther to seeing another male unmentionable that's indeed inherited and exhibits very submissive behaviors and thought patterns.

Are they learned behaviors or DNA? Any sociologist worth their salt has delved deeply into the "nature vs. nurture" arguement and will continue the debate for centuries to come.



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:22:27 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

birthright

n 1: a right or privilege that you are entitled to at birth; "free public education is the birthright of every American child" 2: an inheritance coming by right of birth (especially by primogeniture) [syn: patrimony] 3: personal characteristics that are inherited at birth

I suppose that some who take Female or Male Supremacy to the extreme could argue that all F/M's depending on your particular brand have a "birthright" to dominance or submission, going by the 1st and 2nd definition supplied.

However, using the tertiary definition, I personally can make a strong case for my own female unmentionable, who has certainly inherited my Dominant personality and exhibits many traits of a Fem-Dom even at her very young age. And can even go one farther to seeing another male unmentionable that's indeed inherited and exhibits very submissive behaviors and thought patterns.

Are they learned behaviors or DNA? Any sociologist worth their salt has delved deeply into the "nature vs. nurture" arguement and will continue the debate for centuries to come.




Oopps... didn't want to get into the Dictionary, technical terms. I was trying to get peoples personal thoughts on this. Those that are living the lifestyles they have chosen to live as far as BDSM. Some unmentionables (I have really grown to dislike this word on here.. LOL) grow up watching things and feel that it's all good and the way things are SUPPOSE to be. I don't see it like this. I grew up in a house where hey.. hell.. MOM was in charge. Very rarely did dad step in and take over. But had been known too. I was raised to be the one in charge as well. And for being a single mother, I guess I am the one in charge. But it's not where or what I want to be. I'm not here by choice. Mine was a forced action. Called DIVORCED... and uncollaring.

But I was in the lifestyle before that. So before we get any further into the technical side of this, I was looking more for others personal feelings and thoughts. No some socialogist or shrink that doesn't live the life, but thinks they know more than we do on it.

Though I did like the response too. You gave your personal thoughts as well as far as I can see.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:25:56 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		What about my itty bitty female person who didnt inherit my submissive nature but an extreme dominant one?

Now i have study abit on nature vs nuture. And its abit of both. Its not neither one. i might have nutured it as all i ever wanted was for her to be happy but then i saw that personality at 2 weeks old. Sleeping in my arms, but keeping an eye out to make sure she was still beind held. So i've SEEN the personality before it was nutured.. yet i know i nutured it to let it fly.

BDSM a birthright? Dominant/submission is a personality trait. Part DNA and part nutured. Birthright, is being born into royalty or something else. If we classify BDSM as a birthright, then we will also have to classify other personality traits as a birthright.

i was born to a mother that smokes. So is it my birthright to smoke?
i was born to a father that plays rugby. So is it my birthright to play rugby?

i was born with the flair to the dramatic. So does that mean its my birthright to be dramatic?

heh

(in reply to yourMissTress)
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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:33:37 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		yes, that was me. Sorry about that, bad choice of wording.

What I had meant in that post as far as anything being "birthright" is that the patterns for dominance and submission, mix or neither, seem to be integral parts of a person's personality. It is a part of who they are, be it that the pattern of behavior is inborn (as some believe) or based on personal experiences that build patterns of behaviour. I didnt mean to come off as saying that people were born into BDSM.

Sorry for the mix up.

Some people seem to have a need or calling, but I would hesitate to think that they were born with that need or calling. I've been trying to figure out what has drawn me to it, when and where the distinction took place and have yet to find a satisfactory answer. Just that it has.

But being of a switch type personality, that has always been there. Always will be.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:35:42 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

I grew up in a house where hey.. hell.. MOM was in charge. Very rarely did dad step in and take over. But had been known too. I was raised to be the one in charge as well. And for being a single mother, I guess I am the one in charge.


And i was raised with a mother in charge a stepfather who bowed down. Though interestingly enough i spent 7 years in a power struggle with my stepfather, but not with my mother. i was raised in charge of myself for the most part. Yet, across the country my father was head of the household and a very dominant man. Not even his parents would say squat to him.

i was also raised that men are pigs and never to rely on one. i was told story after story of the hazards of what happens when you rely on a man.

Sooooooo whats my birthright? Its not birthright. Its nature and nurture. i have the nature to be submissive, but i was nutured Dominant.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:35:56 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u


Oopps... didn't want to get into the Dictionary, technical terms. I was trying to get peoples personal thoughts on this. Those that are living the lifestyles they have chosen to live as far as BDSM. Some unmentionables (I have really grown to dislike this word on here.. LOL) grow up watching things and feel that it's all good and the way things are SUPPOSE to be. I don't see it like this. I grew up in a house where hey.. hell.. MOM was in charge. Very rarely did dad step in and take over. But had been known too. I was raised to be the one in charge as well. And for being a single mother, I guess I am the one in charge. But it's not where or what I want to be. I'm not here by choice. Mine was a forced action. Called DIVORCED... and uncollaring.

But I was in the lifestyle before that. So before we get any further into the technical side of this, I was looking more for others personal feelings and thoughts. No some socialogist or shrink that doesn't live the life, but thinks they know more than we do on it.

Though I did like the response too. You gave your personal thoughts as well as far as I can see.


Sorry for being precise, but I was attempting to illlustrate the possible differences of the application of the word.

I do think that a Dominant was born with a dominant personality, a submissive was born with a submissive personality just as I believe that we are born to our respective sexual orientations.

And a very good topic as well.



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 11:50:27 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Sorry for being precise, but I was attempting to illlustrate the possible differences of the application of the word.


Please don't appologize for being yourself. I've read your responses, and see what you are saying. And find it very interresting as well. Not only that, I was looking for others thoughts, personal thoughts and feelings. Your responses are your thoughts... and feelings.. thanks again

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 1/14/2006 12:44:49 PM >

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/14/2006 2:05:32 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Birthright >>>>>>> Something which is your right by birth. Some people by birth will inherit large fortunes, family estates and possibly titles etc. Others will not, however all, by birth have the right to breathe and to be the best they can be under the circumstances in which they find themselves. Some people are born dominant and others are born submissive but all need to develop these traits.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/15/2006 8:35:14 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I consider it an orientation, like being born homosexual.

What we choose to do with that orientation, express it or grow into something else is up to us.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/15/2006 10:48:17 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
Are they learned behaviors or DNA? Any sociologist worth their salt has delved deeply into the "nature vs. nurture" arguement and will continue the debate for centuries to come.



Sociologists may be debating this for centuries to come, but, fortunately, genetists should have it all wrapped up within 50 years. I'm betting on DNA.....for submissives. Bottoms can be stress release alone. Slaves? Beats me. I haven't met one yet that has "no limits"....bing.....for me that tosses them back to the submissive category.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 2:57:13 AM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		i don't believe its a birthright , but i do believe we have tendancies early on which mature as we get older into choices, and the way we live.

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 6:30:06 AM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I consider it an orientation, like being born homosexual.

What we choose to do with that orientation, express it or grow into something else is up to us.


I agree with the analogy to homosexuality, although I am not sure that we have as much choice to change as LuckyA suggests. We can act however we want, but mostly, the underlying orientation doesn't change. Think Rock Hudson :)

I was born kinky, I truly believe. Cinderella being forced to serve her horrible step-sisters used to turn me on. Anyone care to start a thread on kinky fairy tales??

Smythe


_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 7:50:40 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

I was reading in another thread and was going to ask this there, but didn't want no one saying a thread was being highjacked... LOL

So decided to start another. In this other thread I read a post that stated submission as a birthright. A birthright? I'm not quite sure submission or even Dominace is a birthright. But then again that's my own personal opinion.

But it would appear to others that there's such a thing as birthright to BDSM. So I'm ging to ask this question. If BDSM is a birthright, how does one know it? When does one learn this to be a birthright?

Sounds like more internet bullshit to me, to be blunt. What is it about people who feel the need to dress what they do up in fancy frippery in order to justify it. I suppose insecurity... same as in the middle ages when some nobles began obsessing over bloodlines and proving their nobility by such because the were terrified someone was going to question their right to be a noble at all... they needed justification. I can hear it now... "oh I'm Mr Domly Dom because its my birthright and you all must recognize that because of my fine pedigree going back six generations in the lifestyle", said in my best snobbish accent. Someone hand me a ball bat, somebody needs their reality check.

quote:

No matter what side of the coin we sit on. Are we there by choice, need, desire, or birthright?

We're all here by choice. Unless of course you want to make a case for someone being dragged into it by force... but since this lifestyle is supposed to be consensual can we really consider someone forced into it as actually being part of it (if it isn't consensual are they really doing the same thing as us?)? For the rest of us, the vast majority of us, for whom it is consensual... it is a choice. We might feel a desire or a need as well... but we choose to fulfill it.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 8:56:57 AM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Padriag, you have an inimitable style all your own! I much appreciate the way you share your feelings.

I echo your sentiments, that those who try hardest to establish their "pedigree" are perhaps those least secure in their own skins.

Our journeys from birth to grave are a combination of influences - Genetics, teaching, circumstances, and choices. From adulthood onward, no one owes you anything because of who you popped out of, or circumstances of your family. You take your genetics, your education (both formal and through experience), and your circumstances and you start making choices, doing things, and you become who and what you are.

Accept that responsibility, and you can grow and change and shape who you are. Attempt to avoid that responsibility, blame others, seek excuses, that will shape who you are also. But it will virtually guarantee that who, what and where you are in your life will remain stagnant. Birthright, schmirthright. You are who you are. That means if you are an old, fat, balding, ugly, tattoed, pierced, evil, sadistic, hung-like-a-stud-field-mouse male... You're me. If not, you are someone else.

YIK,
- Geoff

< Message edited by EvilGeoff -- 1/16/2006 8:57:42 AM >

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 9:05:12 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You are who you are. That means if you are an old, fat, balding, ugly, tattoed, pierced, evil, sadistic, hung-like-a-stud-field-mouse male... You're me. If not, you are someone else.


LOL....and I am sooo thankful that I am someone else. I would not fit into that description very well!!! I just love it though....thanks for the laugh!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Birthright to BDSM - 1/16/2006 9:32:18 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created unequal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of BDSM. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Doms, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the Submissives, --

I am leary anytime a person says that certain traits are "natural" to a person. That style of arguement has been and still is used to justify oppression. Slavery is not natural, it is a system of social contol. Women were not let into medical school, not because they were naturally inferior, but to maintain a power imbalance.

Societal conditioning and its impact on us is vastly underestimated.

I realize that I am going to get flamed by a bunch of people chiming in with "I was born this way." and going on and on about their "natual submission." So before that happens, I would just like to point out how self-absorbed babies and children are - and the fact that they HAVE to be.

Have a great day, I am going to go get my tinfoil hat.

LaMalinche

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ceterum censeo Fastlane esse delendam

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