Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (Full Version)

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slaveontheshore -> Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 3:29:26 PM)

Greetings
I wanted to take an opportunity to post my opinion on a few aspects of the modern BDSM community that tend to bother me. I hope nobody takes anything personal and understands that this is just my opinion…I could be wrong.

Once upon a time, before the advent of the web, if you wanted to meet a like minded D/S oriented person you had to attend an event or answer a personal ad that went to a blind mailbox or something similar. With a few exceptions those were pretty much your options. It took more time and effort, but it also seemed to filter out some of the people that were not for real. The internet has made it very easy to be something your not. We have all dealt with those that are not sincere and only want to play games or get a cheap thrill.

One of the ways that some Dommes have adopted to filter some of these game payers is to require a tribute before any attention is given. I understand the desire to filter these people out but I feel that the concept of the monetary tribute is getting out of hand.

The problem, in my opinion, is that it assumes that the Domme /Dom is not also a game player and is sincere in their search for a partner. Unfortunately, in addition to the insincere subs, there is no shortage of Dommes/Doms that have no problem taking advantage of other people. Someone who has found the courage to accept who they are can be very vulnerable to someone willing to prey on their desire to find someone. The internet has created a whole industry of people that claim to be one thing, but in truth are interested only in taking advantage of someone.

It’s an interesting problem, being submissive and craving that soul that understands you, that knows why you want to kneel at the feet of a dominant that you adore, someone that understands that the humiliation that you’re willing to endure is not a sign of weakness, but a demonstration of your devotion, and your love. As a submissive I understand that we should be willing to endure and provide for our Mistress, Master, owner…

But what protects US from the frauds.

I understand that if you are a professional you may require tribute or a financial demonstration to gain access. I have no bones about that. Though I personally do not use professionals, I find no fault with those that do. However, if you are purporting to be a single person interested in finding a lifestyle partner….can we find other ways to allow a sub to show their good intent?

How about meeting for the first time at a “munch” or similar social event? A good D/S relationship needs to build over time like any other vanilla relationship. D/s is about trust and finding someone that is your other half. Who can allow you to get, as Plato put it… “lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy”

Now I don’t mean to sound like I am trying to Top form the bottom or anything. Nor do I think that the BDSM community was perfect before the Internet. I hope that some of you will comment on your experiences and perhaps provide some other suggestions on how we can, as a group, learn to avoid becoming cynics and victims of the world wide weird.

After all were all in this together.

[image]local://upfiles/25756/1EA8EBB594C64361A8708D75F3105C30.jpg[/image]



Leonidas -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 3:42:33 PM)

There is a whole thread on "money slaves" that proudsub could probably find for you. I said before that Dom/mes demanding money is so fraught with the potential for fraud and exploitation that it should be just about as frowned upon by the community as a man demanding a woman meet him at a hotel room, alone, without even knowing his name. That opinion was greeted with a chorus of "but that's my kink", and I'm sure it will be again here. In short, I agree with you, it's a bad practice that needs to die.



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 4:35:24 PM)

Leonidas,
psst proudsub is on a cruise. Here is a link called "question about Tribute"

http://www.collarme.com/forum/m_4542/mpage_1/key_financial/tm.htm



SherriA -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 4:50:52 PM)

It seems pretty straightforward to me....but then, I'm not a slave and I'm not looking for partners.

That said, it seems like if you contact someone and she's interested in tribute, but that's something that you're NOT interested in, then it's a bad match, and off you go. No harm. No foul. *shrug* Doesn't seem any different from any other interest, to me.

If you're not comfortable giving someone money, you shouldn't do it.



Leonidas -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 5:03:59 PM)

Hmmm... well, given the current mood of the board..... lets see.....

In situations similar to this when I have known women similar to you, I would have been inclined to say "good girl". Not that I would say "good girl" to you, mind you, but I have been known to say similar things in the past.



LadyBeckett -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 5:22:18 PM)

Thank you, jill! Good girl!! [;)]

On the tribute thing...yeah, what Sherri said.



LadyBeckett -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 5:24:50 PM)

quote:

Not that I would say "good girl" to you, mind you, but I have been known to say similar things in the past.


Hmmmmm.....



afmvdp -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 5:29:07 PM)

I think more males are dumb enough to fall prey to this than females. Then again more females tend to fall into 24/7 all expenses provided as well. Either way they luck out.



LadyBeckett -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 5:57:58 PM)

That is one aspect of the lifestyle that is "supply and demand". I could have a diagram of the perfect email in my profile, and I would still get the "i am at your feet mistress, i will do anything, please consider me for your slave." emails every single day. I had one guy send me credit card information. I don't know if it was legitimate or not. I deleted the email. For every Domme that wants cash, there is going to be the males that are going to give it to her. Fact of life. If you aren't one of them, like Sherri said, walk away. That easy. [;)]



gitta -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:03:29 PM)

Looks at Lady Beckett, cancels credit card and smiles.........



Leonidas -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:03:29 PM)

I agree. As I said in my first post, it's like the man who says "meet me at room 309, no you don't need my name, phone number? here's a beeper number. just call me MasterBob". Some women will go for that, some won't. I guess you could say "if that's not your thing, no harm, no foul" but I think that the general attitude of the community, though, is that it's wrong for MasterBob to do that, and stupid of subbyJane to fall for it. I wish the general attitude about "tribute" was similar.



slaveontheshore -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:06:30 PM)

I know there are lots of sites for BDSM education, but i dont think the community does enough to educate on the safety issues of meeting people.

The fact that someone would email a credit card number is an attest to that.

Pretty stupid move, i know it should be obvious but there are a lot of people who just dont get it



LadyBeckett -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveontheshore

I know there are lots of sites for BDSM education, but i dont think the community does enough to educate on the safety issues of meeting people.


The horse has to be thirsty.



slaveontheshore -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:39:10 PM)

But does that mean they should be taken advantage of, ....

Or taken aside and educated



gitta -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 6:44:44 PM)

as long as you hand out the credit card you do not grow....as long as you lay down people will walk on you...the choice is clearly yours...



LadyShoshin -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 7:03:39 PM)

While I prefer to meet potential subs at a munch and provide the links to some local ones if they have never been, I also meet them at local restaurants. My solid rule is we meet, we talk, we have a meal or beverage which he pays for. Then we go to our own vehicles and there is a two day "cooling off" period, after which they may contact me to tell me if they feel there are compatibilities. During the two days I also think about the sub and what was said. A sub who arrives with a flower or small token of esteem is definately ahead of the subs who show up empty handed. I have one client because he wants sessions in which he dictates what will take place. My rule, I am in control & the sub serves me in the way I choose (within negotiated limits), then he is not a client, we have an exchange of service for domination. When the sub is in control and I provide a service, that man is a client and will not get any sort of sex. I tell him my hourly fee & we have an exchange of money for Domination. I am not trolling for clients, I prefer service subs and have two at the moment.
Of course there are the no shows & subs with asshole attitudes, I just shrug & say "Next"



SherriA -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 7:06:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I agree. As I said in my first post, it's like the man who says "meet me at room 309, no you don't need my name, phone number? here's a beeper number. just call me MasterBob". Some women will go for that, some won't. I guess you could say "if that's not your thing, no harm, no foul" but I think that the general attitude of the community, though, is that it's wrong for MasterBob to do that, and stupid of subbyJane to fall for it. I wish the general attitude about "tribute" was similar.


I don't see anything wrong with tribute, personally. And I don't see it to be at all the same as the example you gave.

Some men *like* to give women money, to buy them things, to make their life easier, etc. How is that unsafe?

If you look at it from the perspective of some men, sometimes it's what they have to give. They can't be there to change her oil, or clean her house, or mow her lawn, but they can provide the funds to see that it gets done, so that she doesn't have to do it, to make her life easier/nicer/whatever. It's a service to her, just as much as if he'd done it himself. He can afford $1K for a new flat panel monitor, or $600 for a new PDA, or to pay her cell phone bill, or her car lease, or whatever, and if he feels good doing these things for her, to make her life a little more pleasant, where's the harm in that?

For some men, that's what they think they have to bring to the table. How is it predatory for a woman to allow a man to do things for her, if that's what he wants to do, or how he's able to serve her? Why is it ok for him to come over and clean her house (likely naked, or in a cockring and panties to feed his fetish), but it's not ok for him to provide the funds for a professional service to do the cleaning if he's unable to (or because they'd do a much better job of it than he would)?

How is it ok for a man to have his slave cook his meals for him, but it's not ok for a woman to have her slave pay for her meals?

Double standards make me see red.



slaveontheshore -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 7:15:22 PM)

I dont think were completely talking aobut the same thing. I agree that what you describe may be right for an individual.

However, There is a difference between being in a consentual relationship where the sub provides for his Mistress and demanding money before you even meet.

All im saying is that we should all take the time to get to know each other before we delve into the practice of providing financial support.



Laura -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 7:47:10 PM)

My very first day on this site I had a sub male offer me access to his credit card via EBay. He said he was a money slave or something like that. Well, I've never asked for tributes but having one offered was tempting. I tried it. I wondered what I was getting myself into, if it was some kind of fraud or whatever. But, I had to explore and discover. lol Anyway, turns out that I could order up to $500 worth of stuff but there was some glitch that kept the order from going through. Did he know that or was it a sincere offer? I'll never know for sure. But it was an interesting experience.



SherriA -> RE: Tributes and Fakers – Have we all become cynics? (8/12/2004 7:47:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveontheshore
However, There is a difference between being in a consentual relationship where the sub provides for his Mistress and demanding money before you even meet.


If you don't want to provide it, then don't do it. It's a computer. Block the user. Close the window. No one's making you do anything, regardless of what they "demand".

I get emails from dominant men demanding things from me too. I'm not obligated to comply. Nor are you.

Those guys (and occasional women) who email me might not be a good match for me, but they *could* be the perfect match for someone else. In the same fashion, women who want tribute might not be a good match for you, but that's not cause to villify them; they're exactly what someone else is looking for. Equating them to predators (as Leonidas did) is simply going too far, imnsho.



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