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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 4:51:25 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Obama could say that, but it wouldn't make it legal.  Marijuana is outlawed by Federal law, and it's outlawed by every state.  I would like to see all legislation on drugs to be the sole domain of state law.  Our founders were very clear that those types of decisions belonged to the states.  Abortion, drugs, education, healthcare, and numerous other issues should all remain state issues. 


You're right, the federal government shouldn't be trumping the will of the people (i.e. State law) -- but that question is rendered moot when you have an extra-national entity like the WTO trumping our state laws.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 8:08:03 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie
They can't legalize pot because it would cut into Big Pharmacy's profit.



        Nonsense.  It would open up very lucrative new possibilities for them.  Lots of interesting chemistry to legally play with.  Sick people who don't already indulge aren't going to want to spark a joint to ease nausea, but an inhaler can be prescribed.  Especially if they can isolate the compounds that work, without the psychoactive effects.

     What has to be overcome is 80 odd years of a failed social policy.  The war on drugs has done more harm to our society than stoners ever could have.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 8:16:50 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Especially if they can isolate the compounds that work, without the psychoactive effects.

apologies for the hijack. THC is sold in pill form in some states..used for treatment of glaucoma, appetite stimulation, and pain control


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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 8:30:12 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

They can't legalize pot. There are international treaties in the way, among other things. There are also unwritten laws for them. They must maintain the clean look, that they fight drug use because it is the right thing to do.


They can't legalize pot because it would cut into Big Pharmacy's profit.



Didn't know the "Big Pharmaceuticals"..assume you mean companies like Merck, Pfizer, JNJ, Bristol Myers..et al.. Your are right, of course, if these companies make a profit on pot that will go up in smoke if it's made legal.  I think there are also a few people down in Mexico that might suffer some financial hardship as well.
However, screw em.. I'm also in favor of making it legal.  If a person wants to get a little happy time in his life, why not.  I would just hate to be on the road if he/she drives home from the paaateeeee!!  I think law enforcement could spend their time better than arrest 800,000 people for possession last year, according to a news documentary..and that was just for possession..not pushing.
I actually have done a 180 with respect to drugs in general...if people want to fuck up their minds...be my guest. Maybe this new stimulus package put take care of camps for these people.???

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 8:37:38 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I would just hate to be on the road if he/she drives home from the paaateeeee!! 



        Do you know the difference between a stoned driver and a drunk one? 

       A drunk will blow right through a stop sign he didn't see, a stoned one will sit there for five minutes, waiting for it to turn green.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 6:04:12 PM   
TheUtopian


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quote:

Your are right, of course, if these companies make a profit on pot that will go up in smoke if it's made legal.  I think there are also a few people down in Mexico that might suffer some financial hardship as well.


Heh... I haven't smoked pot since I was a junior in high school---it makes me hella lazy---but I'd like to see it and many other drugs become legal just for the sole purpose of putting more cops, court staff, judges and prosecutors out of work.


I think it would refresh this country's soul, if we had less order and little more anarchy.






- R



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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 9:04:30 PM   
Coldwarrior57


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    The boost to the economy from the recreational aspect would be pretty good.  New retail outlets opening up and paying rent in strip malls, the display cases and distribution vehicles being ordered.  Taxes on hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of dollars being paid.  Then we have the equipment for home growing, hydroponic systems, lighting, irrigation. 

   The real boost though, would be the whole new commercial industries that would develop.  The sheer amount of biomass that is produced from commercial hemp is astounding.  There would be a boom in the construction of local facilities to process that material where it is grown, instead of shipping it off as a raw material.  Building materials, paper, textiles, seed oil.  Since it is not a food product (yeah, whatever. those brownies taste like dirt), it can be grown using non-potable/recycled water.

      I'd like to see him say we are going to do that.  I don't have any expectation of it. 
taxes being paid on pot!
OK, you are aware of boot legging right?
you have heard that people are stealing smokes and selling them on the black market.
and thats just what we need another legal substance that will make people not want to work.
Perhaps I am just a neigh sayer on this issue.


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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 9:44:01 PM   
TheHeretic


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      Right now, Cold, it is ALL a black market.  The closest we come to making anything off it is in the sales tax on the glassware (see the recent Michael Phelps pic).

     I see your posts on world affairs.  What do you think might happen to the Mexican Cartels if they suddenly lost the marijuana money?  How about the gangs on the north side of the border?   We are talking about big money, suddenly flowing in a whole new direction.

     I think we would very quickly see the high end growers forming completely legal co-ops, and distribution networks.  Brand names and marketing campaigns.  Orders for delivery vans, and custom display cases.  That would be the conservative approach to economic stimulus, right?  Clear aside some nonsensical regulation and the let the market fill the opportunities?

    Besides, didn't you hear what Nancy Pelosi said?  We are losing 500 million jobs a month!  At least let them smoke a damn joint and mellow out when they get the pink slip.

     

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/8/2009 11:46:52 PM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


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When Obama speaks.....and my dog hears him, my dog starts to compulsively lick his balls.

I don't know what it means but I find it disturbing.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/9/2009 1:13:19 AM   
scifi1133


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I would just hate to be on the road if he/she drives home from the paaateeeee!! 



       Do you know the difference between a stoned driver and a drunk one? 

      A drunk will blow right through a stop sign he didn't see, a stoned one will sit there for five minutes, waiting for it to turn green.
snort

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/9/2009 3:44:38 AM   
StrangerThan


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I didn't vote in this election for several reasons - the biggest probably being that I moved and didn't pay attention to my new state's registration laws. At the point I went to register, I was a day late. I could have went back to my old residence and voted as I still have a house there, but neither candidate produced any desire to make the hour and a half trip.

However, this post highlights one of the things I don't want to see. The dangers of a single party controlling both the White house and the Congress was something that became painfully obvious during the Bush years in that, essentially, one person gains control of two branches of government. There are plenty of issues one can look back on during the last 8 years and find some reason to not like the administration, but if there's a single thing I despised most it was the way Bush/Cheney held a stranglehold on Congress for a good part of it.

I don't vote for parties. I vote for people and I expect those people to exercise common sense, to protect the Constitution and in doing so, protect my rights as a citizen even if it means standing up to everyone else in Congress or the standing up to the President. I expect them to do what is right, not follow along like they have a ring in their nose and are part of a herd. In the Bush years, votes weren't decided by debate nor by right and wrong. They were decided by Bush, Cheney, Frist and a few other chosen. Now I'm looking at the same thing happening from the opposite side, and I don't like it. Neither party has The answer for this country. If it did, we wouldn't swing back and forth between them every few years in electing govenors, presidents, congress folk.

Obama has the same outlook on many things that I do. We differ on many other issues. What worries me and what has bothered me for most of the last 10 years is that the system of government we cherish where there are 3 branches of power is basically lost when one party controlls 2 of them. Given the absolute hatred and dislike between the party-faithful of the other side these days, it seems do little more than widen the gap  in the country rather than heal anything.

So yes, I'll listen. What I'm fairly sure of however is that when I hear things I don't like, I won't have people with common sense up there defending a way of life, but rather will have members of a herd following along - albeit a different herd.


< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 2/9/2009 3:52:54 AM >

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 10:41:20 AM   
TheHeretic


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          Tonight is the night.  Any last minute predictions on what he will have to say?

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 11:49:19 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

         Tonight is the night.  Any last minute predictions on what he will have to say?


"My fellow Americans, republicans and libertarians, "change" has come to our country. 


Today marks my first State of the Union address to you, a constitutional duty as old as our Republic itself.
President Washington began this tradition in 1790 after reminding the nation that the destiny of self-government and the "preservation of the sacred fire of liberty" is "finally staked on the experiment entrusted in the hands of the American people."

From this podium, Winston Churchill asked the free world to stand together against the onslaught of aggression. Franklin D. Roosevelt spoke of a day of infamy and summoned a nation to arms. Douglas MacArthur made an unforgettable farewell to a country he had loved and served so well. Dwight Eisenhower reminded us that peace was purchased only at the price of strength and John F. Kennedy spoke of the burden and glory that is freedom, and Bill Clinton pronounced, "I did not have sex with that woman Ms. Lewisnki".

When I visited this chamber last year as a relative newcomer to Washington, critical of past policies which I believe had failed, I proposed a new spirit of partnership between this Congress and this Administration and between Washington and our state and local governments.
In forging this new partnership for America we could achieve the oldest hopes of our Republic--- prosperity for our nation, peace for the world, and the blessings of individual liberty for our children and, someday, all of humanity, and chimpanzees.

It is my duty to report to you tonight on the progress we have made in our relations with other nations, on the foundations we have carefully laid for our economic recovery and, finally, on a bold and spirited intiative that I believe can change the face of American government and make it again the servant of the people.

Seldom have the stakes been higher for America. What we do and say here will make all the difference to auto workers in Detroit, lumberjacks in the Northwest, and steelworkers in Steubenville who are in the unemployment lines, to black teen-agers in Newark and Chicago; to hard-pressed farmers and small businessmen and to millions of everyday Americans who harbor the simple wish of a safe and financially secure future for their children.

To understand the State of the Union, we must look not only at where we are and where we are going but at where we've been. The situation at this time last year was truly ominous.

The last decade has seen a series of recessions. Government's response to these recessions was to pump up the money supply and increase spending.

This time, however, things are different. We have an economic program in place completely different from the artificial quick-fixes of the past.

If we had not acted as we did, things would be far worse for all Americans than they are today. Inflation, taxes and interest rates would all be higher.
A year ago, Americans' faith in their governmental process was steadily declining. Six out of 10 Americans were saying they were pessimistic about their future.
A new kind of defeatism was heard. Some said our domestic problems were uncontrollable-- that we had to learn to live with the seemingly endless cycles of high inflation and high unemployment.
There were also pessimistic predictions about the relationship between our administration and this Congress. It was said we could never work together. Well, those predictions were wrong.

The record is clear, and I believe history will remember this as an era of American renewal, remember this administration as an administration of change and remember this Congress as a Congress of destiny.

Together, after 50 years of taking power away from the hands of the people in their states and local communities, we have started returning power and resources to them.

Axelrod to the boss...talk louder and with more passion, Sir

Together, we have made a new beginning, but we have only begun.
No one pretends that the way ahead will be easy. I warned that the "ills we suffer have come upon us over several decades. They will not go away in days, weeks or months, but they will go away ... because we Americans have the capacity now, as we've had in the past, to do whatever needs to be done to preserve this last and greatest bastion of freedom."
 
The economy will face difficult moments in the months ahead. But, the program for economic recovery that is in place will pull the economy out of its slump and put us on the road to prosperity and stable growth by the latter-half of this year.

That is why I can report to you tonight that in the near future the State of the Union and the economy will be better-- much better-- if we summon the strength to continue on the course we have charted.
 
And so the question: If the fundamentals are in place, what now?
Two things. First, we must understand what is happening at the moment to the economy. Our current problems are not the product of the recovery program that is only just now getting under way, as some would have you believe. They are the inheritance of decades of tax and tax, spend and spend.
Second, because our economic problems are deeply rooted and will not respond to quick political fixes, we must stick to our carefully integrated plan for recovery.

The only alternative being offered to this economic program is a return to the policies that gave us  trillions of dollars of debt, and unemployment.

So I will not ask you to try to balance the budget on the backs of the American taxpayers. I will seek no tax increases this year and I have no intention of retreating from our basic program of tax relief. I promised the American people to bring their tax rates down and keep them down-- to provide them incentives to rebuild our economy, to save, to invest in America's future. I will stand by my word.

Tonight I am urging the American people: seize these new opportunities to produce, save and invest, and together we will make this economy a mighty engine fo freedom, hope and prosperity again.
The budget deficit this year will exceed our earlier expectations. The recession did that. It lowered revenues and increased costs. To some extent, we are also victims of our own success.

We will continue to redirect our resources to our two highest budget priorities--a strong national defense to keep America free and at peace and a reliable safety net of social programs for those who have contributed and those who are in need.
Contrary to some of the wild charges you may have heard, this administration has not and will not turn its back on America's elderly or America's poor. Under the new budget, funding for social insurance programs will be more than double the amount spent only six years ago.
But it would foolish to pretend that these or any programs cannot be made more efficient and economical.
The entitlement programs that make up our safety net for the truly needy have worthy goals and many deserving recipients. We will protect them. But there is only one way to see to it that these programs really help those whom they were designed to help, and that is to bring their spiraling costs under control.
Today we face the absurd situation of a federal budget with three-quarters of its expenditures routinely referred to as "uncontrollable", and a large part of this goes to entitlement programs.
Committee after committee of this Congress has heard witness after witness describe many of these programs as poorly administered and rife with waste and fraud. Virtually every American who shops in a local supermarket is aware of the daily abuses that take place in the food stamp program-- which has grown by 16,000% in the last 15 years. Another example is Medicare and Medicaid--programs with worthy goals but whose costs have increased from $11.2 billion to almost $60 billion, more than five times as much, in just 10 years.
Waste and fraud are serious problems. One official said many of the people who are chearing the system were "very confident that nothing was going to happen to them."
Well, something is going to happen. Not only the taxpayers are defrauded-- the people with real dependency on these programs are deprived of what they need because available resources are going not to the needy but to the greedy.
The time has come to control the uncontrollable.

I am confident the economic program we have put into operation will protect the needy while it triggers a recovery that will benefit all Americans. It will stimulate the economy, result in increased savings, and thus provide capital for expansion, mortgages for home building and jobs for the unemployed.

Now that the essentials of that program are in place, our next major undertaking must be a program-- just as bold, just as innovative--

Our faith in the American people is reflected in another major endeavor. Our private-sector initiatives task force is seeking out successful community models of school, church, business, union, foundation and civic programs that help community needs. Such groups are almost invariably far more efficient than government in running social programs.
We are not asking them to replace discarded and often discredited government programs dollar for dollar, service for service. We just want to help them perform the good works they choose, and help others to profit by their example. Three-hundred Eighty Five Thousand corporations and private foundations are already working on social programs ranging from drug rehabilitation to job training, and thousands more Americans have written us asking how they can help. The volunteer spirit is still alive and well in America.

Our nation's long journey towards civil rights for all our citizens--once a source of discord, now a source of pride--must continue with no backsliding or slowing down. We must and shall see that those basic laws that guarantee equal rights are preserved and, when necessary, strengthened. Our concern for equal rights for women is firm and unshakable.

Our foreign policy is a policy of strength, fairness, and balance. By restoring America's military credibility, by pursuing peace at the negotiating table wherever both sides are willing to sit down in good faith, and by regaining the respect of America's allies and adversaries alike, we have strengthened our country's position as a force for peace and progress in the world.
When action is called for, we are taking it.
Meanwhile, we are working for reduction of arms and military activities.

Building a more peaceful world requires sound strategy and the national resolve to back it up. When radical forces threaten our friends, when economic misfortune creates conditions of instability, our response can make the difference between peaceful change or disorder and violence. That is why we have laid such stress not only on our own defense, but on our vital foreign assistance program. . Our foreign policy must be rooted in realism, not naivete or self-delusion.

We intend to keep the peace--we will also keep our freedom.

We have made pledges of a new frankness in our public statements and worldwide broadcasts. In the face of a climate of falsehood and misinformation, we have promised the world a season of truth--the truth of great civilized ideas: individual liberty, representative government, the rule of law under God.
We have never needed walls, mine fields and barbwire to keep our people in. Nor to declare martial law to prevent our people from voting for the kind of govenment they want.
Yes, we have our problems. Yes, we are in a time of recession. And it's true, there is no quick fix to instantly end the tragic pain of unemployment. But we will end it--the process has already begun and we'll see its effect as this year goes on.
We speak with pride and admiration of the little band of Americans who overcame insuperable odds to set this nation on course 200 years ago. But our glory didn't end with them --- Americans ever since have emulated their deeds.

And then there are countless quiet, everyday heroes of American life--parents who sacrifice long and hard so their children will know a better life than they have known; church and civic volunteers who help to feed, clothe, nurse and teach the needy; millions who have made our nation, and our nation's destiny, so very special---unsung heroes who may not have realized their dreams themselves but who then reinvest those dreams in their children.

Don't let anyone tell you that America's best days are behind her--that the American spirit has been vanquished. We've seen it triumph too often in our lives to stop believing in it now.
 
One hundred and twenty years ago, the greatest of all our Presidents delivered his second State of the Union message in this chamber: "We cannot escape history," Abraham Lincoln warned. "We of this Congress and this administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves." The "trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation."
That president and that Congress did not fail the American people. Together, they weathered the storm and preserved the union.
Let it be said of us that we, too, did not fail. That we, too, worked together to bring America through difficult times. Let us so conduct ourselves that two centuries from now, another Congress and another President, meeting in this Chamber as we are meeting, will speak of us with pride, saying that we met the test and preserved for them in their day the sacred flame of liberty--this last, best hope of man on Eart

However, it ain't gonna be easy.  It may get a lot worse before it gets better because of the past eight years of George Bush. We will come back from the economic cliff in time, we Americans are a resilient people.


Ok..so I didn't write this...It was "stolen" from Ronald Reagans 1st State of the Union   :)
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan's_First_State_of_the_Union_Speech

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 12:03:04 PM   
calamitysandra


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I would like to hear that he will very well be doing his fucking best in the job he got. And I want him to say it as if he means it.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 12:04:08 PM   
domiguy


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I would hope that the majority realize that Obama writes much of what he says. That doesn't make it good or bad, just makes it a little more authentic than what we have been used to of late.

It would be wonderful if he legalized weed and some lesser drugs.  Fuck it, legalize'm all.

He will discuss on ways to cut the deficit.  It will include raising taxes on those making 250k and over.  He will discuss not spending on unnecessary things today that we will have to pay for tomorrow.  Wars and such.

What a cash crop weed would be.  Solve many of the financial problems we face today.  We would actually be growing and manufacturing a product that could be exported. 

"Dude, have you tried that Wisconsin Wacky?...Whoa! it's way better than that shit from Hawaii and it comes along with a tub of some righteous portwine cheese and crackers...Bonus!!!"

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 12:11:40 PM   
BoiJen


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Hippie and hookers...I'm telling you hippies and hookers and our economy would skyrocket.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 2:02:23 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

That he's taking Bush, Cheany and the rest of the pack of malignant weasels to court to try them for war crimes. That hebeas corpus is restored, and that the government has no business in tapping everyone's phones. PATRIOT II is going to be struck down, and America will be getting back to being America again shortly, instead of being the U.S.S.A. (United Soviet States of America)


You realize this would include everyone in Congress who gave W the ok to invade Iraq, right?

Oh thats right, they get a pass cause W lied to them, even though they all saw the same intelligence W & co. saw.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 2:57:33 PM   
MzMia


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Of course I will be listening Rich, I can't wait.
I am not sure what I "want" him to say.
I am not sure about the marijuna Rich, hasn't that already been outsourced?

I would love to hear about 1% interest rates on home loans,
along with some great tax incentives for home buyers.
 
I would love for President Obama to give many incentives to companies that
want to create jobs.....
the list of what I "want" and what I will hear, will never be close enough.
I will have to settle on listening tonight.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 2/24/2009 2:58:27 PM >


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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 4:09:12 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

That he's taking Bush, Cheany and the rest of the pack of malignant weasels to court to try them for war crimes. That hebeas corpus is restored, and that the government has no business in tapping everyone's phones. PATRIOT II is going to be struck down, and America will be getting back to being America again shortly, instead of being the U.S.S.A. (United Soviet States of America)


Hello John Birch.

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RE: When Obama Speaks ... - 2/24/2009 4:14:14 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Obama could say that, but it wouldn't make it legal.  Marijuana is outlawed by Federal law, and it's outlawed by every state.  I would like to see all legislation on drugs to be the sole domain of state law.  Our founders were very clear that those types of decisions belonged to the states.  Abortion, drugs, education, healthcare, and numerous other issues should all remain state issues. 


You're right, the federal government shouldn't be trumping the will of the people (i.e. State law) -- but that question is rendered moot when you have an extra-national entity like the WTO trumping our state laws.



shannie, very good point.

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