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RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 6:59:54 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

A fiat currency isn't necessarily a bad thing.



I disagree! When I was in college, my roomate had a Fiat 850 coupe that fell aprt before our very eyes! To my amazement, he turned around and bought a 130 Spyder, which was even worse.

They make currency too? I bet it looks neat, but doesn't start on rainy mornings.

Bob

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 7:07:04 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
Okay i read through the posts. i Agree DesertRat with the other options as far as the two options. Cheese Packages suck! LOL and i thought it was MY inability to follow directions too. LOL

And um suicide is much more instersting. i am artfully skilled in all the ways it DOESNT work. Sucide can actually be a very complicated thing. The body is amazingly resilient, the soul is amazingly resilient. Anyone EVER actually reach that point of truly being right next to the door of death? Most havent, that can actually live to tell about it. i will tell ya, sucide is NOT for the weak and ya need alot of courage. And if you've ever been next to that door, you'd know i speak the truth = ) i've been there twice, once on complete accident and other well er not. i tell ya, being next to that door is THE scariest thign i have ever gone through in my life. Once on an overdose of coke and my body was siezuring enough that i A) couldnt see and B) could barely get off the floor and if i COULD get off the floor it wasnt for long. Another time was an overdose of 72 pills and i could feel myself slipping away and even tho i was hallucinating and in and out of consciousness i knew (well i knew before i started slipping in and out)) that that door was opening up wide. Now granted once i started slipping in and out, all possible solutions for ME to remedy the situation were not going to be possible. Except that internal, unconscious desire to survive. Other then the hallucinations, i DO remember the absolute teror of being next to that door. And on the time it was accidental.. only adrenaline brought on by fear had me fighting for survival. Literally fighting to get up off that ground. Hell, i couldof just laid there and let the siezure take over, but noooooo i fought for control of my body. Repeatedly (LOL)

And nooooooooooo this isnt dramatic. Its actually quite fascinating to me. Its interesting. Informative to myself which i choose to share.

yeah Death is for the brave cos its a damned scary thing! (for abit of humour) and i THOUGHT that quitting was a weak thing, and sucide was quitting.. so it should be a piece of cake.

suicide is SOooooooo misunderstood (said in my best valley girl accent)

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 7:20:49 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
Dammit, RiotGirl, pay attention!! We're talking about fiat currency here. We've already mentioned the 850 coupe and the 130 Spyder, but no one has said a word about the Strada or the X1/9. Real crap. I guess driving those things could be considered suicidal so maybe there's a way these disparate subjects can be tied together.

Bob

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 9:44:19 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

my roomate had a Fiat 850 coupe that fell aprt before our very eyes


Bob,
1979 Fiat Spider convertable. Looked great, and was fun as long as you didn't drive it. Out of tune as soon as it left the garage and you turned it off, but that first trip was fun. Learned that FIAT stood for "Fix It Again Tony".

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 11:31:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

you surely do seem to feel everyone is out to sue someone. my munchkin had a desk hurled at her that barely missed and was also threatened by another child about bringing a gun and shooting her--again, no lawsuit. that was 1st grade. shall i go on?

so many people scream "tort reform" when it's not really as prevalent as some think. it's time to get off the "everyone is suing everyone" bandwagon as it's an echo you're hearing


I live in the same state. It's not my opinion it's a pragmatic observation based upon facts. Your decision regarding your daughter was yours. Unfortunately, based upon actual cost, you seem to be in the minority. A recent study sites that 65% of all litigation against California schools was a liability case. In California $13.18 per student is spent on civil liability cases. Los Angeles County spent $31.42/student.

The report makes interesting reading, citing actual cases. Cleanser used to clean up vomit caused a child to feel nauseated. The mother subsequently claimed the nausea turned into asthma. An attorney filed a claim for $30,000 in damages. In discovery it was determined that the child had a long history of asthma. This occurred in the same district in which a girl sued for sunburn, caused by 20 minute physical education class held on a sunny day.

In Illinois two band students protested receiving an "F" for inserting their own guitar solos into a concert. Their attorney argued that their civil rights were violated. The school district incurred costs of the litigation that extended all the way to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

In San Diego a school spent $22,000 defending a civil rights lawsuit an attorney brought on behalf of a 16 year old girl found carrying 3 knives.

$400,000 of your tax dollars were spent to settle a case brought by an attorney on behalf of a 16 year old truant student who was struck by a car off campus after a school employee asked the student and his friends to return to school.

Entire Report: http://www.cjac.org/research/schoolreport.pdf

The public didn't create the current low esteem held by many regarding the legal industry. The actions of the industry, perpetuated by the disproportionate number of attorneys elected to public office, generate the sentiment. Why do they seek public office? Unlike a business person who can't just let his business run itself, attorneys can still maintain their practice. Their time in elected office is an investment for future lobbying jobs. Meanwhile, they make sure their industry is protected and enhanced.

Prop 64 in California is a perfect example of the fight the legal industry puts on with even the slightest inclination that true tort reform is on the horizon. It's a "fixed game". If industry puts up any campaign they are represented as being oppressive of the general publics "right" to sue. Yet it's the same general public who must pay the cost, approximate 20% of each and every consumer item, which goes to liability insurance and payout of civil suits. It's the general public who's factories are closed because a company such as Piper Cub can't afford to build planes in the US because the liability insurance was determined to be 150% of the cost of the materials and man-hours it took to build the plane.

Other than the reason that it would end frivolous lawsuits, there is no logical reason why a "loser pays all legal costs" tort reform isn't law in the US. The injured would still prevail, the incompetent would still pay. Lawyers wouldn't be able to take the cavalier attitude to bring cases. They'd have to consider their validity. The "lottery", where it doesn't cost anything to play on the plaintiff side, would be over.

Currently, instead of "winning" a case and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in defense most defendants settle. Analysis isn't whether the case has merits or not. The decision is based on whether the cost of the defense will be more than what the plaintiff is asking. How is "justice" being served? Wonder why schools and companies in general settle versus go to jury trial. Here are the Top ten jury verdicts of 2005 as reported by the Lawyers Weekly.

quote:

TOP TEN JURY VERDICTS IN 2005
#1
Billionaire Investor Awarded $1.45 Billion In Fraud Suit Against Morgan Stanley
In 2005's largest verdict to an individual plaintiff, a Florida jury last May ordered Morgan Stanley to pay $1.45 billion to investor Ronald O. Perelman for defrauding him in the sale of his Coleman camping gear company.

#2
Overdose Of Chemotherapy Meds Leads To $606 Million Verdict
In what may be one of the last massive medical malpractice verdicts in Texas, a state jury awarded $606 million - including a remarkable $600 million in punitive damages - to the family of an 82-year-old cancer patient who died after receiving an overdose of chemotherapy drugs.

#3
Texas Jury Awards $253 Million In First Vioxx Trial
Plaintiffs scored a major victory in the ongoing Vioxx litigation last August when a Texas jury awarded $253.1 million in the first trial.

#4
High-Low Agreement Slashes $164 Million Verdict To $5 Million
Moments before a Florida jury returned with its $164 million verdict last July, plaintiffs' attorney Arthur Tifford agreed to a high-low agreement that capped the defendant's liability at $5 million.

#5
Giants Stadium Beer Vendor Held Liable In $135 Million Auto Accident Case
In the largest liquor liability verdict in the nation, a New Jersey jury last January found the beer concession at Giants Stadium in New York liable for a drunken football fan who caused a car crash that paralyzed a 2-year-old girl.

#6
Small Entertainment Promoter Wins $90 Million Verdict Against Industry Giant
In a David and Goliath type tale, an Illinois jury awarded an events promoter $90 million - most of it in punitive damages - against one of the nation's largest entertainment promoters, Clear Channel Communications of Chicago.

#7
Law Firm, Bank Must Pay $65.5M To Widow In Estate Planning Case
In February, a prominent Houston-based law firm and a Texas bank were slammed with a $65.5 million verdict in a complex estate planning case that involved major conflicts of interest.

#8
$65 Million For Sixth-Grader Electrocuted At Bus Stop
Three years after a jury acquitted a Florida company of criminal manslaughter charges, a civil jury hit the outdoor advertiser with a $65 million verdict for the electrocution of a sixth-grade boy.

#9
Private Jet Pilot Wins $64 Million For Age Discrimination
In early December, a Los Angeles jury found that PrivatAir - an aviation company specializing in private airline services - wrongfully terminated Captain Doyle D. Baker on the basis of his age, defaming him in the process and causing extreme emotional distress.

#10
Family Wins $61.2M In Ford Explorer Rollover
In the ninth loss for Ford in Explorer rollover cases, a Florida jury awarded $61.2 million to the parents of an 18-year-old boy who was killed in a 1997

http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/topten2005.cfm

(in reply to girl4you2)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 12:40:43 PM   
girl4you2


Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
i'd love to see your research of just how much money those people got after the appeal by the big companies. not awards, real dollars actually handed over. it's a minute fraction of any jury award.

you seem to present a very one sided argument without looking at the whole picture. i'm not in the minority. most people do not sue.

you talk of safety. how do you think safety equipment found its way to that car you drive? did the automobile manufacturers just fix cars that rolled over from too high of a center of gravity or a gas tank right next to sparks to be warm and fuzzy companies? how did you get seat belts, bumpers, better bumpers, air bags, etc.? might be worth finding out. how many people died while a human life was valued at $200,000 by corporations? what made them change this?

and do tell us about that little old lady with the coffee incident with mcdonald's. i'll listen to your version. then i'll tell mine and hope that you'll listen.

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 1:27:56 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

i'd love to see your research of just how much money those people got after the appeal by the big companies. not awards, real dollars actually handed over. it's a minute fraction of any jury award.


That is the point.

The people, whether the plaintiff or people in general, do NOT get the money. The legal industry does. That's one of the "secrets" the lawyer doesn't tell you when he sells you on suing - usually all his expenses come off the top. Sometimes juries add cost, but when a case is settled each side bears its own cost. The answer to the question of who is ultimately benefiting is obvious - the legal industry.

Reform would not change the consequences of bad engineering. If there is fault that party pays. All it would curtail would be legal fishing expeditions. The McDonald's lady got pennies on the initial award because the defense knew that on appeal it would be overturned. What was paid? 100% of the plaintiff's cost, the medical, and some change for the injured party. By memory, I think the coffee really was brewed at too hot a temperature, but that really wasn't the point was it?

There is no justice in the fact that the woman who planted a severed thumb in her Wendy's chili received prison time. Wendy's lost $2 Million in sales in the days following the allegation and untold more since. Her teary eyed plea for mercy where she cited that "Wendy's was her favorite fast food restaurant." will do nothing to recover the cost or the loss of reputation of the company. For her to bring a lawsuit, she had to have a lawyer. It is my position that there were two crimes. The litigants fraud, but the lack of consequence to the lawyer who only saw large legal fees and didn't ascertain the validity of the claim. In the current environment he gets off free and clear. Justice?

Mark me, soon someone's family will sue a cell phone company because they got killed in a traffic accident while talking on a phone. There isn't a label on cell phones yet, but these labels are the result of the fear of law suits. Either that, or companies think their customers are REALLY stupid.

Do you think these label warning are on products because people actually tried these things?

On a lawn-mower I had was a big label which read:
"WARNING WHEN MOTOR IS RUNNING- THE BLADE IS TURNING!"

Warning on a curling iron: Do Not Insert Curling Iron Into Any Bodily Orifice…

Some bathrooms have inadequate ventilation and therefore, develop mold spots in the lower corners. The directions on a cleaner specifically designed to remove bathroom mold deposits stated, "Only use in well ventilated areas."

Seen on the bottom of a Coca-Cola bottle: "Do not open here."

On a bottle of spray paint: "Do not spray in your face."

On a bottle of bathtub cleaner: For best results, start with clean bathtub before use.

On a container of lighter fluid: WARNING: Contents flammable!

On a bottle of hand lotion: Warning: Starts healing skin on contact.

On a box of household nails: CAUTION! - Do NOT swallow nails! May cause irritation!

Microwave popcorn is packaged so that the directions cannot be read unless you open the plastic and unfold it. Direction #1 is Remove plastic.

I have a full-face motorcycle helmet with a giant arrow pointing to the front. I can only guess that some idiot put the helmet on backwards, jumped on a bike and hurt himself. This is to protect to manufacturer from future lawsuits.

On my blow dryer the warning says "DO NOT BLOW DRY IN SLEEP"

Seen on the back of a drink bottle label: "Do not peel label off."

On a Band-Aid box: "For serious injuries, seek medical attention."

On a can of powdered infant formula: "Mix with water before serving." Like I'm going to spoon it to my baby dry!

On a can of Woolite carpet cleaner: "Safe for carpets, too!"

On the BOTTOM of a box of glass ornaments: "Do not turn upside down."

On a box of Frosted Cheerio's, the logo, "Tastes so good this box never closes," is located just underneath another announcement: "To close: place tab here."

On a plastic orange juice can: "100% pure all-natural fresh-squeezed orange juice from concentrate."

On an ad for some type of contest on a candy bar. The wrapper said "No purchase necessary - Details Inside."

Directions for eating Lunchables Nachos: Dip chips in cheese and salsa.

On golf carts, "Not for highway use."

On Clorox Fresh Care: (for cleaning out odors from fabric) "Safe to use in households with pets Warning: Fresh Care is NOT intended to be sprayed directly on pets."

While working at a large medical center in the Midwest, a construction worker was admitted with a large hammer sticking out of his head. Seems he was in an altercation with another gentleman. On the side of the hammer were the words, 'Use protective eyewear.'

On the back of the Pilots seat on NATO AWAC Aircraft (E-3A), is a sign that states: "Seat must be facing forward for take off and landing."

I came upon a bottle of children's cough medicine stating "Caution: May cause drowsiness; do not drive or operate heavy machinery"

On the label of Sterno is a warning that says, "Do not use near fire or flame."

Seen on a container of salt: Warning: High in sodium

On a hose nozzle there was a warning that said: "Do not spray into electrical outlet."

Seen on an industrial size washer in our local laundry establishment was the (large lettered) sign: "Warning: Do not put any person in this washer."

There is also a stroller on the market with the warning, "Remove child before folding."

I saw a car ad depicting cars driving in the water with fins like sharks. At the end of the ad in small letters it read: "Caution, do not drive underwater"

So at least you can't sue if you do any of these things. I'm sure there is someone out there someplace sticking a chair leg up their butt, because I just checked there is no label saying you shouldn't.

(in reply to girl4you2)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/19/2006 7:26:01 PM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

Well, I for one am going to do something to make the world better. I have two petitions here to sign. Let's see, this one is To End Women's Sufferage, and this other one is To Ban Di-hydrogen Monoxide.

Yeah! I have "made a difference".

Anyone else wanna join me in making the world a better place.

I am so bummed out that I missed the posts on paying for dinner. If one of you all could tell me where to find it, I would sooooooo appriciate it.
LOL
I'm going to help you out by going deep into archives and give you a good old thread on men who have no money resenting the women who think a man should pay, and the men who hate those women, hahaha. http://www.collarchat.com/m_55272/mpage_1/key_who%2Cpays/tm.htm
Enjoy, M



Thanks - very enlightening.

LaMalinche

------------------------------------------------------------

Sunt pueri pueri pueri puerilia tractant

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/20/2006 5:34:18 AM   
girl4you2


Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

i'd love to see your research of just how much money those people got after the appeal by the big companies. not awards, real dollars actually handed over. it's a minute fraction of any jury award.


That is the point.

The people, whether the plaintiff or people in general, do NOT get the money. The legal industry does. That's one of the "secrets" the lawyer doesn't tell you when he sells you on suing - usually all his expenses come off the top. Sometimes juries add cost, but when a case is settled each side bears its own cost. The answer to the question of who is ultimately benefiting is obvious - the legal industry.

Reform would not change the consequences of bad engineering. If there is fault that party pays. All it would curtail would be legal fishing expeditions. The McDonald's lady got pennies on the initial award because the defense knew that on appeal it would be overturned. What was paid? 100% of the plaintiff's cost, the medical, and some change for the injured party. By memory, I think the coffee really was brewed at too hot a temperature, but that really wasn't the point was it?

actually the real winners are the corporations. the mcd's woman was in her 80s, she was in the back seat of a car that was stopped in the parking lot, and she braced the cup to try to get the too tight top off and got 2nd and 3rd degree burns on her genitalia and thighs. trust me, burns hurt. so do skin grafts. mcd's had been sued before, as had other places that sold things that were unfit for human consumption, but mcd's just figured it into a cost analysis equation and kept serving it too hot to drink, so they'd be known as having hot coffee when you were down the road. the reason the woman got so little was that the jury award was appealed by mcd's and they "won" sufficiently on the appeal to get the value of the award down to not much.

that's what companies do. they figure the cost of a few lives lost (the last value i have that they use is $200,000 for a human life), and keep doing business as usual even though they know they have a faulty product. it's been done and keeps being done.

the reason tort reform is pushed so heavily is because corporate america doesn't want to have to lose money. they'd rather pay off a figured amount of deaths than change. and when all the people scream about the greedy attorneys, it just makes their lobbying a whole lot easier.

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why can't people see ? - 1/20/2006 2:31:09 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
i am having trouble understanding the Op and most of the posts; are we being invited to grouse about what we do not like about this world?

i do have one answer; before TV, parents blamed comic books and detective novels for corrupting the youth.

It is ridiculous to argue parents are 100% responsible for how the kid turns out; nor is it reasonable to say they have no responsibility. It is also true (as it has always been) that rich people have advantages the rest of us do not.

i took my kid down south and was agast at the education; so i hired tutors. That's what you do; adapt; be creative, and think of your kid before yourself. (Not generalising about the south; but not anxious to name the city either.)

i suppose i could rant and make fun of people who annoy me, but i have placed a value on peacefulness. So i let annoyances pass by me much more than i did before. i think it's called maturity.

candystripper


< Message edited by candystripper -- 1/20/2006 2:33:39 PM >

(in reply to girl4you2)
Profile   Post #: 50
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