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Why do they even bother? - 2/7/2009 10:03:38 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		I received word today that one of my relatives presently serving in Iraq had been wounded recently.  My cousin who wrote to inform me of this also pointed out that when he arrived home he found that some people actually were glad that he had been wounded.

We dont hear about the people protesting the war much on the news anymore, but there are still those who protest the war by celebrating the fact that men and women are being killed and wounded.

This 23 year old marine was also surprised to learn that while American casualties are reported, no one seems to care about how many innocent men, women and children die in the streets of Iraq every day.

He asked his mother why he even bothered to worry about the people back home, he went so far as to say that the troops were fighting the wrong war, to quote him, "we should be back here kicking in the teeth of every bitch and bastard that celebrates one of our troops dieing."

I served in a combat unit, and saw action.  I agree with him on this. 

Too many Americans seem to have forgotten this country was born in the blood of men willing to die for freedom, we fought  two wars to show the King of England we were going to stay that way, the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812.

We fought a civil war, not to end slavery, but to establish that the Republic had more power than the states.  The civil war was a war over state's rights, until President Lincoln in an effort to gain support for the war made it a war over slavery.

I had ancestors fight for our independence from England, serve on both sides of the civil war, in the Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, the first gulf war, and now they are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There has been a Franklin, Shelton, Ramsey and Baughman in every major battle this country fought.  I had ancestors thrown off their land and forced to walk the trail of tears, and yet they still volunteered to serve this country.

56 graves in Arlington are related to me, as well as two men entombed on the Arizona, another buried on Iwo Jima, three buried in the American Cemetery in Normandy, there is even a relative buried on Last Stand hill in Montana, a poor unfortunate soul who served with Custer and the 7th.

Only now are members of my family asking, "Why bother?"

The United States that we had served seems to be no more.  It is one thing to protest the war, it is something else entirely to celebrate when one of ours fall.

It may be a minority that is doing this, but that minority is speaking louder than most others.

How many of the readers here have walked up to a man or women in uniform and said, 'thank you?'

If you haven't, you are part of the silent ones that dont let our troops know that you are proud of them, or you dont care.


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/7/2009 10:11:04 PM   
PanthersMom


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Joined: 11/26/2007
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Status: offline 		i have and will continue to do so.  i am married to a vet, i appreciate his service and that of all vets, they helped make this country what it was, it's morons like that who are making it is what it is now.  shallow, self centered and unappreciative jerks who wouldn't know the first thing about sacrifice.  thank your relative for me, please.
PM

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/7/2009 10:16:52 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		jlf1961,
 
It is a very sad day when anyone is glad that our troops are being wounded and killed.  Please thank your cousin and other relatives for me.  One of the main reasons I do not support these wars is because of how the troops have been treated both while serving and upon returning home.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/7/2009 10:32:28 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		My dad was a 2nd Lieutenant in 1966 when he went to Vietnam with the 1st Calvary Division (5th of the 7th).  He did 2 and half tours.  He was a Captain when he left.  He was a Silver Star, Bronze Star recipient. 

My maternal grandfather was in the 82nd Airborne.  He was at Normandy in 1944.  I have a Luger that he took off of a German officer he killed.  My paternal grandfather couldn't serve, he was declared unfit because of scarring on his lungs due to scarlet fever as a child. 

My great grandfather was in the first World War.  He fought in the Battle of the Argonne Forest.  He used to tell my grandmother a story about that battle.  He was extremely scared.  Mortars were falling all around them, and bullets were flying.  He knelt down to pray, and a mortar landed a few feet away and knocked him off of his knees.  He figured that was God's way of telling him to get up and get moving. 

I have ancestors that fought for the Confederacy and the Union, and I have ancestors that fought in the Mexican War, War of 1812, and the Revolutionary War. 

I never served, I took ROTC my first two years of college and decided it wasn't for me.  But I am proud of everyone that does, and I thank any veteran that I meet.  I will gladly buy a round for anyone coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan, and I have. 

I have no use for fucktards that take glee in a soldier getting hurt or killed.  They are selfish, disgusting pricks and they deserve not one ear to listen to their vile rants. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/7/2009 10:38:43 PM >

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 3:42:32 AM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		I hope that your cousin is ok. Its just terrible that anyone would wish it on anyone no matter how against the war that they are. I am sorry that he had to deal with people saying that to him. Its simply horrific.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 3:49:39 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

How many of the readers here have walked up to a man or women in uniform and said, 'thank you?'

Every chance i have, and not just to the ones in uniform, but to those who wear a sign of their service in the form of physical and mental scars.

Thank you, Jeff


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 4:08:47 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		It is very sad that people should resort to revelling in a country person's misfortune, especially a country person who is fighting in foreign lands in the name of freedom, the very thing that enables the foul mouths to say what they do.

Now it is one thing to protest against something but wishing harm, that to me is nothing but plain sick in the head. I am against our countrymen fighting abroad, and have served and know the people out there risking their lives largely don't want to be there, but they are bound by duty, a sense that they in their prescence might just be doing that little bit to keep the freedom their families enjoy. I don't want any of our people out there, I want them home, defending our shores or engaged in humanitarian aid and logistics, something useful as I don't believe the agressors in Afghanistan will quit, it is not in their history, besides this, which is worrying. The only way forward as I see it is peace, come to some understanding, but stop the killing, it is pointless and fruitless.

Freedom of speech in a society based upon freedom is one thing but should it not be that those that take glee is the deaths and maiming of countrymen fighting abroad should be slapped down publically, I don't quite understand why these people are being heard, surely they could be accused of inciting something.


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 4:10:08 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Every Americn should honor those men and women warriors who serve the country.  I was in the service also and there are no republican or democrats when your unit is in the field...just one buddy watching another's back. Anyone who "takes glee" as someone mentioned here in the death or wounding of a serviceman should be hung from the lampost but in this country that would get you executed.  We can debate the pro/con of  war, give our opinion as to should we have or should we not have gone into a war; the need to go etc.  However, while debate should not end when the firing starts there should not be attacks on the troops in the media or by politicans.

Most of us here have families who have served during times of war and peace.  My family history in that regard is not as long as the OP and began with WW2and continued with.Korea..Nam...and Iraq1 and Iraq2. While quite a few were involved in horrible battles not all of them were in combat positions due to where they served and events during their service but that doesn't matter...they all proudly wore the uniform and deserve respect.

I can't imagine any American taking glee when one of our warriors falls.  I share your anger.  I also strongly believe that politicians who demean our troops. calling them baby killers or killers of innocent people in the dark of night as we have heard too many times in recent years deserve the same anger. Attack the politics but not the troops. 

I grew up at a time when most Americans believed "my country right or wrong" when the bullets were flying.  VietNam changed that and it's been downhill for the troops getting less and less respect among our leaders.  The idiot in the street dishonoring the troops and the flag they serve is only a bit worse in my view than the politician on the airways demeaning the mission that most of the troops believe in that hurts morale.  Media that covers every gruesome detail of war and jump on anything they feel shows our troops in a bad light should also be called out. I also believe those who cry out for at least a modicum of coverage of all the great things our troops are doing in Iraq at the moment for the people.  A handful of dumb troops abused and humiliated prisoners and while that brought dishonor to all the troops and they were punished The media made it sound as if all of those in service should be painted with the same brush and they and politicians put the blame..on Bush.  These comments and TV shows understandably mke people come back like your cousin feeling bitter about his job well done. I am sure the men in his unit feel as if a brother was wounded.  Your cousin.. and.men and women like him ..deserve our gratitude, thanks and total support. I hope he received the best medical care and is well on his way to recovery.

< Message edited by corysub -- 2/8/2009 4:12:39 AM >

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 5:27:16 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		I don't know of anyone who celebrates someone dying or being wounded while fighting, even if they strongly believe we should never have started this war. I'm sorry to hear of this.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 6:30:17 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Jeff, I cannot wrap my brain around what you're saying and I'm glad for that.  I was brought up to not rejoice in others' misfortunes, let alone death or wounding.

The soldiers are simply doing a very nasty duty as best they can.  It so happens that I strongly disagree with them being there.  That said, I want them safe and pray that they will return soon and that Iraq and Afghanistan get stabilized through their efforts.


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 8:20:10 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		jlf, and others who have served I say to you this right now :

THANK YOU.

It matters not if you were lead into battle for unjust reasons by leaders who actually belong in jail. You took an oath, and within that oath is the fact that you must obey orders. If the chain of command breaks down, this country effectively has no military, and that would not be a good thing.

That means you baby killers and school bombers and whatever else. You took an oath and I doubt it was easy to keep. You held to your word, that is honorable. In the aftermath we see the mistakes, the misjudgement and all that, but that is on the part of our "leaders". You did what you had to do and I will die respecting that.

So to all you baby killers, school, hospital and apartment attackers, whatever you did, thank you. You were not asked to reason out the reason for these actions, simply to carry them out. If there is any blame it is not on your shoulders. You had to do it, you swore to do it, and you held to your word. How can anyone have a problem with that ?

I am unexpectedly reminded of a saying, by John Lennon I believe "What if they gave a war and nobody came ?". Well if that happened, and you could be assured that nobody on either side would be willing to fight, I would be all for the abstention of the soldiers, and let the suits either send their own sons to fight and die, or find another way. But that is not reality.

I have not been in real war, close maybe on the streets but there is still a big difference. I have been told to do things at work I knew were wrong, and I did them. Whatever fallout happens is the bosse's problem. I can't just say I did it and leave him thinking it was done. The morality is not in my hands. Most, not all, but most of the blood is not on my hands.

Time is a good barrier. If I had my AK back when MFs were calling the Nam vets baby killers I would be tempted to test it out. At 4400 FPS with a copper alloy clad bullet I could probably shoot at least five of them with one round. Geez, these people have enough on their mind, you think they LIKE what they did ? What kind of fucking idiot does it take to think that ?

Now to say it, at the max. I am so against the war in Iraq, and the Israeli/Palestinian situation I wish Iran would turn Israel into a glass parking lot, to get it the fuck over with. Stop all this shit. In fact I don't care who wins, I am just getting tired of it. The waste of lives and money every fucking day. Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, kill to save lives and get the fucking job done.

But that in no way diminishes the respect we owe to those who go over there and dodge lead (at best) and put their lives on the line. No matter how misled they might be, no matter how unjust the war, they are sticking to their word and doing what they believe to be right. If you can't respect that, you can't respect anything.

T

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 8:40:32 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I received word today that one of my relatives presently serving in Iraq had been wounded recently.  My cousin who wrote to inform me of this also pointed out that when he arrived home he found that some people actually were glad that he had been wounded.

We dont hear about the people protesting the war much on the news anymore, but there are still those who protest the war by celebrating the fact that men and women are being killed and wounded.

This 23 year old marine was also surprised to learn that while American casualties are reported, no one seems to care about how many innocent men, women and children die in the streets of Iraq every day.

He asked his mother why he even bothered to worry about the people back home, he went so far as to say that the troops were fighting the wrong war, to quote him, "we should be back here kicking in the teeth of every bitch and bastard that celebrates one of our troops dieing."



Tell me, who were these people that were glad he was wounded and what exactly did they say?

Who has been celebrating our troops dying?  When and where have you seen this?



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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 8:44:49 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


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Status: offline 		Prayers for your loved one.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 8:51:58 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		rulem, thankfuly alot of people haven't seen them, but they are out there. They are of the same ilk that slurred the Nam vets some thirty odd years ago. They are not smart enough to know not to kill the messenger, in other words, blame the troops, not the powers that sent them there to kill or be killed.

The mentality exists, do you really need to see it ?

T

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 9:32:58 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

rulem, thankfuly alot of people haven't seen them, but they are out there. They are of the same ilk that slurred the Nam vets some thirty odd years ago. They are not smart enough to know not to kill the messenger, in other words, blame the troops, not the powers that sent them there to kill or be killed.

The mentality exists, do you really need to see it ?

T


Yes, because I haven't seen it.

And I think what is being referred to here are the lunatics from Westboro Baptist Church, and that has been addressed here before.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 9:43:32 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

rulem, thankfuly alot of people haven't seen them, but they are out there. They are of the same ilk that slurred the Nam vets some thirty odd years ago. They are not smart enough to know not to kill the messenger, in other words, blame the troops, not the powers that sent them there to kill or be killed.

The mentality exists, do you really need to see it ?

T


Yes, because I haven't seen it.

And I think what is being referred to here are the lunatics from Westboro Baptist Church, and that has been addressed here before.



God forbid, but if you were to lose a loved one in military service, you would see it. It is not exclusive to the Westboro Church....hatred has no religious preference. It is also a total disregard for those who are grieving. There were to be protesters at my late husbands funeral but, thank God, there were enough police to keep them at bay.


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 9:43:53 AM   
BigSi2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How many of the readers here have walked up to a man or women in uniform and said, 'thank you?'

If you haven't, you are part of the silent ones that dont let our troops know that you are proud of them,

[/quote

I hold my hand up and confirm, that I am guilty of that.  I do support the troops, however, I am now making a mental note to thank them when I next see them.


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 10:12:47 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly


God forbid, but if you were to lose a loved one in military service, you would see it. It is not exclusive to the Westboro Church....hatred has no religious preference. It is also a total disregard for those who are grieving. There were to be protesters at my late husbands funeral but, thank God, there were enough police to keep them at bay.



I may be mistaken, but I thought you had posted before they were from Westboro.

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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 10:21:45 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly


God forbid, but if you were to lose a loved one in military service, you would see it. It is not exclusive to the Westboro Church....hatred has no religious preference. It is also a total disregard for those who are grieving. There were to be protesters at my late husbands funeral but, thank God, there were enough police to keep them at bay.



I may be mistaken, but I thought you had posted before they were from Westboro.


i never posted that. I had no clue where they were from


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RE: Why do they even bother? - 2/8/2009 10:35:24 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

My dad was a 2nd Lieutenant in 1966 when he went to Vietnam with the 1st Calvary Division (5th of the 7th).  He did 2 and half tours.  He was a Captain when he left.  He was a Silver Star, Bronze Star recipient. 

My maternal grandfather was in the 82nd Airborne.  He was at Normandy in 1944.  I have a Luger that he took off of a German officer he killed.  My paternal grandfather couldn't serve, he was declared unfit because of scarring on his lungs due to scarlet fever as a child. 

My great grandfather was in the first World War.  He fought in the Battle of the Argonne Forest.  He used to tell my grandmother a story about that battle.  He was extremely scared.  Mortars were falling all around them, and bullets were flying.  He knelt down to pray, and a mortar landed a few feet away and knocked him off of his knees.  He figured that was God's way of telling him to get up and get moving. 

I have ancestors that fought for the Confederacy and the Union, and I have ancestors that fought in the Mexican War, War of 1812, and the Revolutionary War. 

I never served, I took ROTC my first two years of college and decided it wasn't for me.  But I am proud of everyone that does, and I thank any veteran that I meet.  I will gladly buy a round for anyone coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan, and I have. 

I have no use for fucktards that take glee in a soldier getting hurt or killed.  They are selfish, disgusting pricks and they deserve not one ear to listen to their vile rants. 


My thanks to your family.

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