Is there any civic duty here? (Full Version)

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aravain -> Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:04:55 AM)

So... I'm in my room. I'm minding my own business... (this happened about 30 minutes ago)

I heard 4 gun shots (definitely not automatic or semi-auto, both of which I've heard before, but these sounded very different), and then a resulting scream with some words (mostly swearing). Less than 20 seconds later there were (police) sirens, and a few minutes later there were ambulance sirens. I live very close to a police station, so their fast response was not unexpected.

Thinking about it I'm not sure if there's any sort of civic duty. I'm not an 'eyewitness' (in that I didn't *SEE* anything, only heard it, and I'm all the way on the 9th floor of a building) but I'm not sure if I'm still obligated to tell the police that I heard something, or even how helpful it would be (other than proving that shots happened).

So is there a duty to disclose to the police, here, or do I just let it rest?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:12:44 AM)

No you don't have any responsibility.  What you heard wouldn't help the police's investigation at all.  If you heard it, I'm sure a lot of people heard it.  I would have called the cops upon hearing that to report it, and I have done so before.  But, they've never asked me for a follow-up interview, as I didn't see anything. 



susie -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:21:19 AM)

If you are sure of the timing then it might help the police set a time line.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:29:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

If you are sure of the timing then it might help the police set a time line.


Yes. She's right. It wouldn't hurt to call them up on Monday and let 'em known what you heard. They can decide whether it's of any importance or not. Probably won't be, but you never know. I used to live in one of those neighborhoods too, and there were a couple of times when the police did find that sort of information helpful.



aravain -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:32:43 AM)

Hmm, ok.

I'll give them a call, but the police station is (literally) across the street. Thanks for the input :) I'm still kinda freaked out. I mean, when I was in Israel and heard gunfire, I expected it so it was ok... I never expected to hear any while I was in a place I considered 'home,' y'know?



Vendaval -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 5:13:06 AM)

aravain, do call the non-emergency number and file a report or walk across the street to the station, even better.  You can also ask for crime statistics in your city and county. 



Crush -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:11:23 AM)

Not being involved is what causes, or exacerbates,  many problems. 

That's why we have "Neighborhood Watches" these days.  (Though in the past, that was the default!)  Helps the bad guys to know to go somewhere else.

Make the report or phone call.  Encourage your neighbors to do the same, if they heard it, since I'm guessing you have no "Watch" per se.

Good luck.  You may want to at least stay in "Condition Yellow" whenever you are out and about.  Be relaxed, but aware of your surroundings...
(See http://www.frontsight.com/newsletter/html/08-color-code.html  for a good description of  just white and yellow mental awareness states.   For Wikipedia version of the "Cooper Code" click  here  )





CatdeMedici -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:17:22 AM)

Speaking as an ex cop--unless you can validate the exact times of the shots, you are clutter---we get far too many "eye witnesses" that couldn'd find their way out of a paperbag with a roadmap--we really prefer that those most acurately and intimately involved be the ones with the story--however, you don't need to go see them at the scene--you can ring them up, tell them what you know and if there is an interest, they will ask for a statement.



aravain -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 10:01:15 AM)

I know the exact times. I wrote them down.

I gave them a call and got a thank you for the information, and that they'd contact me if they needed to talk to me :) The guy didn't sound like he was really paying attention, but *eh* what're you gonna do?

Since it's a dorm and the closest residences that AREN'T dorms are apartment buildings there's not a watch (that I know of). Someone *DID* get arrested in the afternoon down the hall from me, though [:D] that was interesting.



YoursMistress -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 11:05:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Speaking as an ex cop--unless you can validate the exact times of the shots, you are clutter---we get far too many "eye witnesses" that couldn'd find their way out of a paperbag with a roadmap--we really prefer that those most acurately and intimately involved be the ones with the story--however, you don't need to go see them at the scene--you can ring them up, tell them what you know and if there is an interest, they will ask for a statement.


Oooh!  I didn't know Miss Cat is an ex-cop. Did you keep your uniform when you left?  :D



MistresseLotus -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 12:29:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

So... I'm in my room. I'm minding my own business... (this happened about 30 minutes ago)

I heard 4 gun shots (definitely not automatic or semi-auto, both of which I've heard before, but these sounded very different), and then a resulting scream with some words (mostly swearing). Less than 20 seconds later there were (police) sirens, and a few minutes later there were ambulance sirens. I live very close to a police station, so their fast response was not unexpected.

Thinking about it I'm not sure if there's any sort of civic duty. I'm not an 'eyewitness' (in that I didn't *SEE* anything, only heard it, and I'm all the way on the 9th floor of a building) but I'm not sure if I'm still obligated to tell the police that I heard something, or even how helpful it would be (other than proving that shots happened).

So is there a duty to disclose to the police, here, or do I just let it rest?



If you were the victim..wouldn't YOU want all avilable information given tothe authorities to find the culprits?  What's it gonna cost you? A simple phone call.



aravain -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 2:39:10 PM)

I was more trying to make sure I wouldn't be a hindrance to the police...



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 4:25:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Speaking as an ex cop--unless you can validate the exact times of the shots, you are clutter---we get far too many "eye witnesses" that couldn'd find their way out of a paperbag with a roadmap--we really prefer that those most acurately and intimately involved be the ones with the story--however, you don't need to go see them at the scene--you can ring them up, tell them what you know and if there is an interest, they will ask for a statement.


Oooh!  I didn't know Miss Cat is an ex-cop. Did you keep your uniform when you left?  :D



Screw the uniform, I want to know if she kept the handcuffs.

Knew there was something I really liked about her...



Vendaval -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 5:48:53 PM)

And the key!



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:08:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

And the key!


Let's not burden the poor woman with too many details. One of the most memorable nights of my life started with a lost handcuff key.



SummerWind -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:12:00 PM)

Sounds like it's your civic duty to move to the other side of town.



aravain -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:16:48 PM)

Hah, I live on campus. Unless I uproot the entirety of the school with me (I don't get financial aid for housing if I live off campus), this is where I'm staying till summer, and again next year.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 6:43:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

So... I'm in my room. I'm minding my own business... (this happened about 30 minutes ago)

I heard 4 gun shots (definitely not automatic or semi-auto, both of which I've heard before, but these sounded very different), and then a resulting scream with some words (mostly swearing). Less than 20 seconds later there were (police) sirens, and a few minutes later there were ambulance sirens. I live very close to a police station, so their fast response was not unexpected.

Thinking about it I'm not sure if there's any sort of civic duty. I'm not an 'eyewitness' (in that I didn't *SEE* anything, only heard it, and I'm all the way on the 9th floor of a building) but I'm not sure if I'm still obligated to tell the police that I heard something, or even how helpful it would be (other than proving that shots happened).

So is there a duty to disclose to the police, here, or do I just let it rest?



Of course you're obligated!

I was in Vegas about 5 years ago, walking around on the strip with a woman I'd met only months before, invited her to Vegas for a nice relaxing weekend...we're walking towards another venue...

As we're walking towards the show, up the sidewalk, young couple (clearly on their honeymoon...guy is drunk...she's a total hottie, clearly drawing some attention he didn't appreciate....obviously a Marines type guy....I'm not...at all) and he's got her pressed against a wall, screaming his lungs out at her for being a slut, clearly getting ready to slap the shit out of her....

If I've been in 3 fights in my entire life...I'd be exaggerating by about 7 fights....here I am with this chic I'd like to do anything other than be in a fight near....just so she doesn't have to find out I don't know how to fight....all I want is to go see the show we paid for....and I find myself with the whole fight or flight issue.

"Flight" sounded really good to me at the time...as did any sidewalk OTHER than the one we were on.  The one he was on.

This guy could have kicked my ass 6 ways from Sunday, but he was about to (at least I thought) kick hers.  He'd already watched (as had everyone else) about 5 couples just gingerly escape and bypass him...someone else's business...and his section of the sidewalk.

As she and I walked up, I was praying he was going to say anything even remotely sounding like "I'm sorry baby....I apologize...."....but he didn't.

So I placed myself between him and her, as we got to his spot on the sidewalk, and he did the inevitable chest bounce...telling me he was going to kick my ass and "what are you going to do about it????!!!!!"

As I looked around, shaking like a leaf, sure I was about to die...or at least be completely humiliated in front of my then new girlfriend, but refusing to move....I looked around and saw 5 extremely large men with guns who'd been watching the whole thing for the last 10 minutes, waiting for some kind of confrontation (which they had now gotten) coming my way and said...."actually...I don't have to do a damn thing...see those 5 men with guns coming this way?  They're going to take care of things....have a great time in Vegas", and stayed there until the cavalry showed up seconds later.

And then I spent the next 2 hours attempting to enjoy the show, hoping my girlfriend didn't notice the wet spot in the front of my jeans or hadn't thought I was a wimp for not punching the guy.

So...in answer to your question...what do you owe this scenario?  What's your civic duty?

Tell the cops what you saw.





aravain -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 7:39:57 PM)

... you didn't read my post all the way, did you?

I didn't see anything. I heard gun shots and screaming, heard sirens immediately afterward, and had the presence of mind to record the time after I heard the sirens. That was it...

I mean, I called, but you're indicating that I saw stuff that I didn't. o.O

Nice anecdote, though. I would probably have just called the police and went into any local building to ask for help.

EDIT TO ADD: Plus, they weren't terribly interested in my information. I'd assume they were closer to the incident than I was, what with being so far up.



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Is there any civic duty here? (2/8/2009 8:55:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

aravain, do call the non-emergency number and file a report or walk across the street to the station, even better.  You can also ask for crime statistics in your city and county. 
if you walk across the street TAKE DONUTS ! they love donuts!
but honestly thats a tough q, I would ask if they need any more info like the timing of the shots and the like , if they say nope then you did your civic duty.



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