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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 2:35:29 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Is this true ? If so, how did the New Orleans police manage to confiscate guns from (legal) gun owners so efficiently in the hours before Katrina hit ? Was it a different mechanism ?


Because the NOPD didn't go around confiscating guns from people prior to Katrina.  It's a false story stirred up by conspiracy theory loving loonies.  It never happened.  The NOPD and other law enforcement agencies did confiscate weapons from people that had them out in public after Katrina had hit.  But they never did house to house seizures of weapons. 

(in reply to ArizonaSunSwitch)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 5:27:02 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Probably half the firearms around here have never been "registered" because they were purchased prior to registration being a legal requirement to purchase small arms.  I don't intend that they ever Be registered, either.  Whether something of this nature passes or not - they remain as and where they are.  It's bad enough that I have to get "licenced" by the state in order to carry, or to purchase a new one for the collection at this point - less than a snowball's chance in Hades that I'm gonna file along like a good lil sheeple so that there's some sort of official list of what I happen to keep around.  Fortunately for me - with my CCL, the background check is already done and on record, which means I don't have to wait for a new one to be run these days every time I want to go purchase another firearm.  I suspect that will eventually change, but in the meantime, I'm going to continue to enjoy that fact.  (Which reminds me - I seriously need to replace the reloader, since dad got rid of it while I was living in Georgia - in the long run, with prices for ammo going up constantly, it'll be cheaper to replace the reloader and save my brass when I go to the range for target practice.)

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 5:41:56 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		No kidding GaPeach...I've seriously considered reloading too.  It is getting pricey for even practice rounds, and those are factory reloads!  Too many calibers in the house...maybe time to just pick a couple calibers for reloading..hmmm...you got me wanting toys again....

If I could just figure out how to reload .22LR......




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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 6:11:38 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
If I could just figure out how to reload .22LR......


.22LR are still inexpensive enough that it's not cost effective to do yer own reloading - and will likely remain that way unless (until) the government starts a serious push at confiscation.  Thing is, I have practically no .22 (long Or short) in the house.  What I have a lot of are large calibre - .44, .45, .357, 30-30, 410, 30-06, 9mm, .40 - all of which are becoming unghodly expensive.  Some of the rifle rounds have always been on the expensive side - but I do a Lot of target shooting with the .40, 9mm, and .45 - and those are now becoming expensive as well.

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 9:02:57 AM   
Coldwarrior57


Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Depends on the wording of the bill. As far as I knew, when a firearm is purchased the Feds already get a copy of the purchaser information. Anything beyond that may not make it by the Supreme Court. If it actually infringes on the rights, then he should veto it and save the taxpayers some money and the US Supreme Court some time.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vaughner

Or just in general what do you think he should do if it makes it to him?

EDIT: any law that controls any firearm is an infringement




1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.2. Obsolete To defeat; invalidate.



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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 9:49:46 AM   
Termyn8or


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Help me I think I'm falling,
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You don't have any idea where your corpse will land.

Done to the music of Joni Mitchell's "Help Me".

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 12:42:46 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		SBFY

Don't start bringing actual facts into this tread, you will confuse everyone.

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 3:23:18 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
If I could just figure out how to reload .22LR......


.22LR are still inexpensive enough that it's not cost effective to do yer own reloading - and will likely remain that way unless (until) the government starts a serious push at confiscation.  Thing is, I have practically no .22 (long Or short) in the house.  What I have a lot of are large calibre - .44, .45, .357, 30-30, 410, 30-06, 9mm, .40 - all of which are becoming unghodly expensive.  Some of the rifle rounds have always been on the expensive side - but I do a Lot of target shooting with the .40, 9mm, and .45 - and those are now becoming expensive as well.


Was just kidding about the .22LR reloading....have quite a few bricks laying around of the stuff.  I just love shooting my .22 pistol at the range.  Great for form, for bringing people in to learn the basics of shooting*.

As for the calibers, yeah...it is getting very expensive, even for the range reloads.   I've .38+P, 9MM, .32ACP, and 7.62x25 (for my "zombie killer" CZ-52 .)  Trying to keep it simple, though I'm really thinking time for a .45/.410 Judge or similar.   Just more ammo to store...*sigh*  Gotta start reloading Real Soon Now...

And then there is my "evil black rifle" AK 47 and 12ga pump.  Lots of reloading for the AK...it tends to go through some ammo, even though it is semi-auto...those 30 rnd banana magazines.....

Yeah...ya making me want to get those dies, powder and presses. And a tumbler.  And some molds.


* I was HIT IN THE CHEST from 20 yards by a .45 round at the range a while back.  Bounced right off my "manly chest."
Yeah, it was a ricochet off the roof and the wall by a newbie shooter who was taken to the range by her macho boyfriend and had her shoot his .45 as a first.   So she squeezed it off, and up.   Bounced off the deflector by the light, then the wall, then my chest.   Was still hot when I picked it up from the shelf in front of me.  Gave it to her and told her "OK, sweetheart..you just shot a man.  How do you feel?"   Then I had her come over and shoot the .22 for a bit so she could learn NOT to flinch.




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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 3:59:07 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

SBFY

Don't start bringing actual facts into this tread, you will confuse everyone.


Housesub, you've been here long enough to know I don't abide bullshit.  I don't give a damn what side of the spectrum it comes from. 

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 4:16:11 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		May I point out that every firearm purchased legally is registered to the new owner, so this bill is nothing new.

HOWEVER, it does cover firearms that are purchased at gun shows, which are not necessarily registered at the time of transaction.

IN OTHER WORDS, wtf are you complaining about.  All that paperwork you fill out when you buy a firearm is to register the sale, a copy goes to the state ATF, Federal ATF, and other law enforcement databases.

What I personally feel should be done is to have each fire arm fired once at the factory, and setting up a ballistic record of each weapon.  From the barrel marks on the bullet to the pin and extractor marks on the casing.  All filed with the weapon's serial number.

Think about it, if you know that the weapon has a ballistic record that will identify every legally purchased firearm, you wont be so stupid as to use a gun in a criminal act, the weapon's record leads to the registered owner.

Second part of this little system is that every owner is required to keep records if the weapon is sold, report it immediately if the weapon is stolen, lost or destroyed.


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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 4:31:51 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Aw.... ya say the sweetest things, Termy...... *eg* just remember - I have PMS and a loaded handgun. Any other stupid questions?

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 4:41:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Jlf, those are easy enough to alter.
You simply take a file to the extractor and pin and make scratches on the inside of the barrel with a bent piece of steel.

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/10/2009 4:51:27 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

May I point out that every firearm purchased legally is registered to the new owner, so this bill is nothing new.

HOWEVER, it does cover firearms that are purchased at gun shows, which are not necessarily registered at the time of transaction.

IN OTHER WORDS, wtf are you complaining about.  All that paperwork you fill out when you buy a firearm is to register the sale, a copy goes to the state ATF, Federal ATF, and other law enforcement databases.

What I personally feel should be done is to have each fire arm fired once at the factory, and setting up a ballistic record of each weapon.  From the barrel marks on the bullet to the pin and extractor marks on the casing.  All filed with the weapon's serial number.

Think about it, if you know that the weapon has a ballistic record that will identify every legally purchased firearm, you wont be so stupid as to use a gun in a criminal act, the weapon's record leads to the registered owner.

Second part of this little system is that every owner is required to keep records if the weapon is sold, report it immediately if the weapon is stolen, lost or destroyed.



Actually, this has been beaten to death on another board I participate in...and it is simple to alter the barrel, the pin, whatever, so that that record database is useless.  And is useless in the extreme.    See  http://www.alphecca.com/?p=1217 for a discussion of the problem.


Criminals aren't stupid...just lazy.    Scratch the bullet as you load it.  Change the barrels between two different guns.  file the firing pin a hair.  Now it won't match.  Or it will match a bunch of other false positives.

Again, the number of guns involved in a crime is less than  0.02% of all the guns in the US.    Guns aren't tracked for person to person sales. 

And actually, I did some more research and there ISN'T a national database of firearm sales.

From the FBI:  http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nics_overview.htm
Privacy and Security Data is the NICS is not used to establish a federal firearm registry. Information pertaining to an inquiry which resulted in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with the provisions as stated in Title 5, U.S.C., Part 25 as published in the Federal Register, Vol. 63, No. 210.It just determines if an individual is allowed to purchase a gun because that person is NOT on a list of excluded persons.  (Same link)

Even New York State is considering repealing their Ballistics Database because it is just a waste:  
“During the current State budget crisis, now more than ever, we must look to cut unnecessary programs that are costing New York’s taxpayers without providing any tangible benefit,” said Senator Nozzolio. “The CoBIS system has proven to be a colossal failure in preventing crime and remains a massive waste of taxpayer money. Since being established nearly ten years ago, the CoBIS system has failed to link a gun to any unsolved crime.”

Like so many "good ideas" it doesn't implement.  And is subject to the Law of Unintended Consequences.



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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 2:34:52 PM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline 		He is a liar, most politicians are witness the Demo Senator woman from New York state replacing Hyena Rodthem Clinton. One day she is anti-immigration, anti-gay marriage, pro-2nd Amendment. The day she gets the nod from Patterson she reverses on all of those. What the trouble is that American pols are psychopaths.
http://www.nraila.org/obama/

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 2:58:03 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		I have a "firearms issue" that I'd appreciate some of the CM experts assistance. 

I was brought up a 'city' guy from the east coast. I never wanted a gun nor felt I needed a gun. Recently, my mind has been changed.

What do you recommend for personal/home protection. I'm thinking I need one of those unique noise making when loading shot guns, and a pistol. Do you think that's a good start?

My farm-girl beth is well trained in the use and safety. On the other hand, "I never touched a gun in my life. That and that alone forever doomed me to middle management"  Sure, I know the basics like; "you always use a '22' because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

Anybody want to 'aim' me in the right direction?

(Quote Source) 

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/11/2009 3:30:54 PM >

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:12:03 PM   
HotWheelz


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Going back to the original question, Obama would outlaw muzzleloaders if he had the chance.  In his brief political career, both in Illinois and at the federal level he's never opposed and has voted for every anti-gun rights bill that's come in front of his nose.  If you value the right to own a firearm and the 2nd Amendment in its original meaning then you've found the wrong guy.

MercnBeth, I'll send you an e-mail about your question regarding what gun to get for home defense.  It's not a short answer and a bit off topic.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:20:08 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		LMAO Merc - I'm personally not a fan of .22 - they simply aren't big enough to comply with one of my "rules" of handgun use.  That rule being "One shot, one kill."
 
If you're in a situation where a handgun is your last resort - and Most of us are not Quite psychotic enough to resort to firing a weapon At someone until it IS the last resort - you want something in your hand with sufficient Omph to actually STOP the person you're firing at, rather than simply pissing them off.  A .22 is great for varmits like rabbits, oppossums, squirrels, rats (at least normal rats - you'd probably want at Least a .38 for NYC sewer rats) gophers, armadillos, etc.  IE: anything small and easily turned into roadkill.
 
Personally, I'm partial to the 9mm.  At various points, I've owned Browning, Colt, Sig, and some obscure German manufactured one that I never Could pronounce the name of the maker.  (And if I can't Pronounce it, forget me even making a feble attempt at trying to Spell it LoL.)  As a first time weapon, it's got sufficient power to stop someone with either 1 or 2 shots (depending on your accuracy of aim) without having a lot of kick to throw your aim off for a second or subsequent shot.  Another good choice for a first time owner would be a .38.  This is another that has sufficient firepower to stop someone, without throwing your arm out with the kick, or being so powerful that it's likely to go through the next door neighbor's wall After blowing the back of someone's head off.
 
Once you've gotten used to firing a weapon on a regular basis, the .40, .44, and .45 are all great weapons with a variety of models available from several manufacturers, depending on what sort of price range you're looking at.  They have much more kick than a 9mm or .38, and are more likely to go through someone and then into and through the wall behind them.
 
If you're seriously considering a "this makes noise to 'warn' a would be perp while I'm loading" type weapon - anything semi-auto that isn't kept with a round in the chamber, so that you have to actually work the slide prior to firing will pretty much cover that.  Or if you're thinking more along the lines of old western movies - 12 guage pump action shotgun, loaded with alternating birdshot, buckshot, and rocksalt rounds will do the trick.  The 12 guage is a scatter gun with a wide spray, but there's no mistaking that "ClickCLACK" of a round being chambered!

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:38:32 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I have a "firearms issue" that I'd appreciate some of the CM experts assistance.

I was brought up a 'city' guy from the east coast. I never wanted a gun nor felt I needed a gun. Recently, my mind has been changed.

What do you recommend for personal/home protection. I'm thinking I need one of those unique noise making when loading shot guns, and a pistol. Do you think that's a good start?


That question will probably generate a lot of strongly held opinions, and a lot of dick swinging, unfortunately. There's no simple, one-size-fits-all answer. You say you never felt a need for a gun; but have you any experience handling and firing them? It would be helpful to know where you're starting from, what your familiarity and comfort level are at the outset.

I can tell you that for home defense, I use a little bit of both. I've got 9 firearms - 3 shotguns (1 an antique), 3 handguns, and 3 rifles. The rifles are not used for home defense. The two functioning shotguns, both 12-gauge pumps (the "noise making when loading" kind), are both fully loaded and chambered in the gun cabinet in my bedroom at all times - not because I think I might get invaded by so many burglars 1 shotgun won't be enough, but rather because if I ever do wake up in the middle of the night and grab a shotgun, all bleary-eyed and half-awake, i want to be sure the one I grab is loaded. The shotgun is my first choice should I need a weapon in the middle of the night, because the only way to approach my bedroom is down a long, narrow hallway. IMO, a shotgun fired point-blank down a hallway is about as effective a home-defense weapon as you can legally purchase.

I also keep my Colt .45 fully loaded and locked and cocked next to the bed, in case for some reason I'm unable to get to the gun cabinet. If I need a handgun, it's because the burglar is already in the bedroom and has taken me by surprise, so he's close enough that I'm confident i can probably score hits with the pistol no matter how dark it is or whether I have my glasses on - which I probably wouldn't be if i had to aim the pistol down a dark hallway without my glasses. I chose the .45 over the Dan Wesson .357 for the simple reason that with 7 in the clip and 1 in the pipe, I have 2 more rounds to work with than I would with the .357 revolver. Not likely I'd need that many, but why take chances? I'm the type who likes to overprepare.

That's the way I do it, but I grew up around guns, and am comfortable with all types of commonly used weapons. Have you got any friends here in LA who own guns and can take you out to the range to try out a variety of weapons? If you like, next time i come through I can bring a couple of my handguns and you and Beth can do side-by-side comparisons to see how they feel to you.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 2/11/2009 3:39:36 PM >

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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:38:44 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I have a "firearms issue" that I'd appreciate some of the CM experts assistance. 

I was brought up a 'city' guy from the east coast. I never wanted a gun nor felt I needed a gun. Recently, my mind has been changed.

What do you recommend for personal/home protection. I'm thinking I need one of those unique noise making when loading shot guns, and a pistol. Do you think that's a good start?

My farm-girl beth is well trained in the use and safety. On the other hand, "I never touched a gun in my life. That and that alone forever doomed me to middle management"  Sure, I know the basics like; "you always use a '22' because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

Anybody what to 'aim' me in the right direction?

(Quote Source) 


Actually, a revolver is good because it is simple.   .38+P at a minimum.  Nothing to maintain.  If a round doesn't fire, you just pull the trigger again.  Laser sight, while a good thing, optional.

For shotguns, the ca-chunk is overrated.   At my place, the bad guy will never hear that sound...he'll be deaf from the first shot that put a bunch of lead in his chest.  Buckshot, 12 gauge.   

Do you have kids?  Then you need a "quick open" safe.  Some have fingerprint readers so you stick your hand on it, push a button and then your handgun is available.

You have to practice.  Regularly.  Take a lesson or two.  You have to be able to assess the situation and decide what to do in a few seconds.

You must accept that if you take the gun out in a self defense situation that you may have use it and someone will be seriously injured or dead.  A heavy responsibility. 

I just noticed...you live in California.   You are so screwed in so many ways before you get a weapon.   I'd probably stick with a shotgun.

A couple good links to start you are:  http://www.handgunlaw.us  Just click on the state of California in the map for some good info.

Another link is http://www.stategunlaws.org/ run by the Brady Campaign.  It gives a "report card" for each state, based on their perceptions about handguns.  California gets their highest score...it is their #1 ranked state!   What you can get from here is what restrictions and processes are involved for you to have a weapon to actually save your ass if it came down to it.

Plenty of other information out there, but these two will get you started.   Just send me a note via Collarme if you want further info.

Bottom line:  ALWAYS consider a gun loaded.  Never point it at something or someone you don't want to destroy.  Every bullet comes with a lawyer attached. 
And, contrary to so many movies, keep your finger OFF the trigger until you are sure of your target and the things around your target that you might hit as well. (Variant of the Four Laws of Gun Safety )

REAL bottom line:  It is good that you are considering taking the safety and security of yourself and yours, since, as my signature quotes...when seconds matter the police are only minutes away.  Congratulations on thinking it through, since it WILL alter your life and outlook.  It might or might not be right for you, but at least you can make an informed decision.

REAL REAL Bottom line: 
Shotgun, with one in the pipe.   No "ca-chunk" ... just boom. Double barrel.  Pump.  Semi-auto.
Handgun -- Revolver, at least .38+P nice and simple.  (Unless you plan to practice and learn about a semi-automatic pistol (clearing misfires, etc.)
Practice using whichever one you purchase.  It is another tool, but like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly to keep it from hurting you or someone else.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:43:38 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Practice together both at indoor and outdoor ranges on a regular basis and learn how to clean and disassemble and re-assemble your firearms quickly and efficiently.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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