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RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 3:50:46 PM   
UPSG


Posts: 331
Joined: 1/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I have a "firearms issue" that I'd appreciate some of the CM experts assistance. 

I was brought up a 'city' guy from the east coast. I never wanted a gun nor felt I needed a gun. Recently, my mind has been changed.

What do you recommend for personal/home protection. I'm thinking I need one of those unique noise making when loading shot guns, and a pistol. Do you think that's a good start?

My farm-girl beth is well trained in the use and safety. On the other hand, "I never touched a gun in my life. That and that alone forever doomed me to middle management"  Sure, I know the basics like; "you always use a '22' because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

Anybody what to 'aim' me in the right direction?

(Quote Source) 


Depends on what you're looking for. Personal protection to include traveling in a car, walking down a street, entering and existing congenially out of stores? Or solely for interior (backyard/garage included) protection in your home?

For the latter, with little firearms training, and bearing in mind tunnel vision during the heat of the moment, you can't go wrong with a shotgun loaded with shots and not slugs. Point (not necessarily aim) a shotgun with that load and fire.

A .22 is not bad for contact shooting such as putting the barrel to the back of someone's head or to the side of their ear and pressing the trigger. But That's not what you're looking for.

If you want to walk and carry, especially concealed, for light personal protection, I would recommend a .380. You can by a holster that allows you to carry the weapon inside your waist band. From my experience a 9mm is a little to heavy for this albeit it's easily done but with discomfort and the weight pulling on your pants. Same thing with a 357.

If you were traveling through Baghdad or involved in the narcotics trade in New Jersey or Queens I would probably say pack a nine-mil because you'll have more rounds than a .45 and can better engage at distance and through walls than with a .380

I'd go with the .380 though. Go with an inexpensive one too, unless you plan on doing a lot of shooting.

Just my 2 cents.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 4:01:43 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Crush, Panda, Peach, & Wheelz.

THANKS!

Lots to consider. No underage kids in the house, in fact the first use of the weapons may be to get the 'adult' kids to leave at gunpoint!

I know this is not a matter to be taken lightly. I chased the last intruder out of my home with a fireplace poker! When I cornered him behind a couch after a chase through the house, our eyes caught after we both glanced at the poker and gestured; "now what?!" I ended up just letting him go. But I must have put a good scare into him/her; I haven't seen that raccoon or its 3 cohorts that I trapped on the front balcony since.

Seriously, I just think a gun for self protection is necessary in these times.

Crush, thanks for all the links!

Peach, "Or if you're thinking more along the lines of old western movies - 12 guage pump action shotgun, loaded with alternating birdshot, buckshot, and rocksalt rounds will do the trick.  The 12 guage is a scatter gun with a wide spray, but there's no mistaking that "ClickCLACK" of a round being chambered!"  That is exactly what I was thinking. But as Crush points out 'fear factor' may only be a factor in the movies. If they get past the gate and into the house, I better be ready to use it as designed and not rely on the noise. 

I anticipate an issue with LA, CA and the carry license. I think its easier to get a gun illegally than legally; kinda like drugs. For instance, I keep asking people, if you only have a home handgun permit, how do you get it to the range to shoot it? Stupid question huh? First with many to follow I'm sure.

A few people have asked us to join them on the range. I will not even load one until I know what the hell I'm doing. beth says she has experience, but its been a long time since she's had a gun of any kind in her hands.

I hope you don't mind me taking you all up on your offer for some more information. You've all given me plenty for now - THANKS again!

(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 5:44:58 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Crush, Panda, Peach, & Wheelz.

THANKS!

Lots to consider. No underage kids in the house, in fact the first use of the weapons may be to get the 'adult' kids to leave at gunpoint!

I know this is not a matter to be taken lightly. I chased the last intruder out of my home with a fireplace poker! When I cornered him behind a couch after a chase through the house, our eyes caught after we both glanced at the poker and gestured; "now what?!" I ended up just letting him go. But I must have put a good scare into him/her; I haven't seen that raccoon or its 3 cohorts that I trapped on the front balcony since.

Seriously, I just think a gun for self protection is necessary in these times.

Crush, thanks for all the links!

Peach, "Or if you're thinking more along the lines of old western movies - 12 guage pump action shotgun, loaded with alternating birdshot, buckshot, and rocksalt rounds will do the trick.  The 12 guage is a scatter gun with a wide spray, but there's no mistaking that "ClickCLACK" of a round being chambered!"  That is exactly what I was thinking. But as Crush points out 'fear factor' may only be a factor in the movies. If they get past the gate and into the house, I better be ready to use it as designed and not rely on the noise. 

I anticipate an issue with LA, CA and the carry license. I think its easier to get a gun illegally than legally; kinda like drugs. For instance, I keep asking people, if you only have a home handgun permit, how do you get it to the range to shoot it? Stupid question huh? First with many to follow I'm sure.

A few people have asked us to join them on the range. I will not even load one until I know what the hell I'm doing. beth says she has experience, but its been a long time since she's had a gun of any kind in her hands.

I hope you don't mind me taking you all up on your offer for some more information. You've all given me plenty for now - THANKS again!


Merc, the only thing more butt puckering than the hot breath of Rott growl in your ear is the sound of a shotgun being chambered.

For home defense, you must take into account how close your neighbors homes are, where your pets are if any. You are accountable for every round you fire, so you really want to know who or what's behind the person you have to shoot.

I live in a rural setting, with no neighbors on 3 sides of me, and on the fourth side, our house sits fatrher back, so I'd have to shoot at a really odd angle to hit his home.

I have a Mossberg 12g loaded with #6 game shot, I also have a .40 Smith & Wesson semi auto, and Holly has a .380 Bersa semi auto.

IMO, Shotgun followed by a S&W or Ruger .357 Revolver is the best defensive firearm for a novice. The nice thing about a 357 is you can also shoot .38's with it, and it's really really hard to jam a revolver.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 6:24:40 PM   
ladynlord


Posts: 247
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Why oh why are these shot guns being left without "one in the chamber"?!

IF you really want a discouraging noise, then get an old style shot gun with an exposed "hammer" so that when you cock it, you get that sought after noise. A shot gun is without question the way to go for someone of limited shooting experience. But a pump or semi-automatic is designed with a "safety" (read: device which disallows firing and which must be manually engaged or disengaged) so that one shot, round, or shell can be kept safely in the chamber. Select something in a 12 guage caliber, with maybe a chamber to hold a 3" magnum shell. (They can be purchased with chambers to hold 2 3/4", 3", or 3 1/2" shells.)

Want to really up the ante, remove the "plug" which limits the number of shells it can hold to increase the capacity.

Total agreement with everyone who suggested "shot" rather than slugs for all the reasons listed. Home D calls for "00" double ought buck shot, "0" single ought, or mabye "BB".

merc, if you want them to hear a noise, it should be the sound of the safety being disengaged. Since there are not kids, and beth already knows the basics (I knew I liked her from the start), you need to learn and practice with your weapon. Then when you get really good with it, go by another one of a different type and keep on!

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 6:35:06 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Why oh why are these shot guns being left without "one in the chamber"?!


Unless I lost count, I think all 3 of us who advocated shotguns do leave a round chambered. I think Peach said something about how if Merc wanted to make some kind of warning noise, he could get a weapon with an old-style hammer and let the sound of the cock serve as a warning, but I don't think she was advocating leaving the chamber empty. I've read enough of her posts to assume she knows better than that.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to ladynlord)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 7:45:58 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Yeah, she definately knows better than that LOL.  I didn't word it very well - but I was in a bit of a hurry at the time.
 
I don't typically keep a round chambered in the 12 here at home - but then, the 12, the 410, the 30-30, and the 30-06 are all kept in a gun safe.  Depending on what room I'm in currently, I have one of two 9mms, a .40, one of two .44s, or a .45 within reach all the time - so they're what I reach for rather than taking the time to run for the gun safe.
 
(What was fun was when I got pulled over a couple of months back, while on my wayto the gun range, with ALL of the handguns in the car with me, as well as at least 4 boxes of ammo for each caliber.  I had my driver's licence, insurance verification, and concealed carry all in hand when the cop walked up to the window - and he had only stopped me to let me know that one of my break lights went out - while he watched!  He was behind me for 3 blocks, saw all the lights working at one stoplight, and then one of 'em Not working at the Next stop light - so he figured he'd let me know to stop and fix it asap.  So there I am, with 6 handguns in the car, all in cases, 2 of the cases in easy reach and the rest just outta reach on the back seat with box upon box of ammo - and this cop's eyebrows rose to his hairline until I smiled and said "On my way to the range for a bit of target practice."  His responce was to chuckle and tell me "As long as it's the range, and not an ex husband's house, we're in good shape.")

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/11/2009 9:09:35 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Uh oh...those are some wiley critters, with their little hands they can open almost anything.  And they will clean out the sweetest fruits and most tasty meats from your kitchen.  If you leave a door open and chase them towards it that is usually best.  The guy who lived in this place before me damn near shot himself with a shot gun when a possum got in the loft upstairs.  lol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I know this is not a matter to be taken lightly. I chased the last intruder out of my home with a fireplace poker! When I cornered him behind a couch after a chase through the house, our eyes caught after we both glanced at the poker and gestured; "now what?!" I ended up just letting him go. But I must have put a good scare into him/her; I haven't seen that raccoon or its 3 cohorts that I trapped on the front balcony since.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/12/2009 12:22:45 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Or, if you want to get something that will really rock n' roll, take a look at this little beauty that I ordered a few days after the election (just in case). Not the optimum home defense weapon, but it's a pure delight to take her out on the range and open her up. With the modifications I ordered, it's a little pricey, but it's worth every penny.

Better get your order in soon, though - there was a 5 to 6 month backlog when I ordered, which means I should have it in April or May. From what I hear, the factory is now over 8 months behind on their orders.

Panther Long Range 7.62

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 2/12/2009 12:24:05 AM >

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/12/2009 5:38:48 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		Of course, you could always get on the order list for the Palm Pistol  Single 9mm round and you fire it with your thumb, but you can add a cool laser!

** Yeah, I'm on the list, because it is just so different.  But then, I've got a Stinger PenGun too.  **

----------------
Given that most encounters are 3 rounds, 3 seconds and 3 yards, you don't have time to chamber a round...you NEED the gun ready to fire.  A bad guy will be on you in moments, even with a knife or a club, from 21 ft in next to no time.  

And another reason I recommend revolvers over pistols for self defense for "non gun enthusiasts"  since you just point and pull the trigger.  If nothing happens, you just pull that trigger again.   If you practice, you can clear misfeeds/misfires and won't limp wrist the weapon.

---------------------------------------

The three most important phrases when using a gun are "shot placement, shot placement, shot placement."  You can put a .22 in the eye/brain or a .45 in the chest.  Both can be deadly.  But a .22 in the chest will not really slow them down.

Remember, you are trying to stop the threat, not necessarily kill the bad guy.  So a bigger round means you have a higher probability of stopping the threat.   A .22 can kill someone...eventually.   A .45 can stop someone...now.   More shock with the larger round to the system.

Given a threat might be a Meth-head would be, then I want to stop them now, not kill them eventually. And stunguns or pepper spray just annoy 'em.

===========
Yeah, I go on and on...but this is a very important decision someone makes when they decide to use lethal force.


_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/12/2009 6:21:52 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I have a "firearms issue" that I'd appreciate some of the CM experts assistance. 

I was brought up a 'city' guy from the east coast. I never wanted a gun nor felt I needed a gun. Recently, my mind has been changed.

What do you recommend for personal/home protection. I'm thinking I need one of those unique noise making when loading shot guns, and a pistol. Do you think that's a good start?

My farm-girl beth is well trained in the use and safety. On the other hand, "I never touched a gun in my life. That and that alone forever doomed me to middle management"  Sure, I know the basics like; "you always use a '22' because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

Anybody want to 'aim' me in the right direction?

(Quote Source) 
Looks like you picked up plenty of suggestions so far, thus I won't add to that Merc. But just to inject a bit of humor into the intruder issue, I need to explain our household inventory. We do in fact have a decent arsenal in the gun cabinet, but on display on many of the walls and in nooks and crannies of our house, we also have swords of various sizes (sharp pointy objects in general, Jewel collects knives), a multitude of flails and of course a mace behind the bar (affectionately called the peacekeeper). We always jokingly comment that any intruder in our house would be begging that we shoot them, in lieu of using the many other devices at out disposal.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/12/2009 4:28:29 PM   
UPSG


Posts: 331
Joined: 1/22/2009
Status: offline 		According to ABC news, Phoenix last year, had more kidnappings than any other city in the world save for Mexico city. 

http://www.yahoo.com/s/1029644

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A Firearms Issue - 2/12/2009 6:07:49 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		Worried you can't get a gun?  Here ya go:   http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/

One book on building firearms...the other on homemade ammo....


_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 52
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