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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:42:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
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Status: offline 		Is that what has been taking place for the last 8 years .Government was getting out of the way.


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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:44:42 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I think we've found an area of complete agreement, mike. President Bush was a very Liberal spender.



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Is that what has been taking place for the last 8 years .Government was getting out of the way.



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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:44:59 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the post and link, Mz. Mia.  I do agree that at this point only the Fed Gov has the resources to start dealing with this problem.  Increased unemployment insurance and a longer time frame for COBRA and medical insurance are very much needed.  Also the tax credits will help people a bit.  Repairing the infrastructure and stimulating the private sector are all good.

(edited to add a comment on taxes)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 2/9/2009 8:46:30 PM >

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:48:31 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It still pisses me off that wallstreet is getting away with sanitizing and selling  these mortgages as A+ investments.  Heads should fucking roll.  White collar crime is really where it's at.  Bilk the public out of millions, cause nations to collapse and walk the fuck away clean as a newborn baby...

Momentary Rant!!!!!



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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:50:46 PM   
MsDonnaMia


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


We are fucked, there is no getting around that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

The congressional budget office says that this "stimulus" will hurt the gdp more than the recession. nice. 




PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING

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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:51:51 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		please someone explain this to me

when they say they are gonna create 4 million new jobs or save some in the 4 million

and they want to take credit for the new jobs

would these be jobs that no one has ever had before be their justification

how in the hell can they justify that when there have been 3.6 million jobs lost

this would mean they would have to have the 4 million plus the 3.6 million jobs which are no longer to have an increase of 4 million

their math does not compute

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:55:23 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I totally agree with you on this one.  The long term damage to private persons, foundations, businesses and society in general is heinous.  There should be criminal prosecutions and hard time for the ones responsible. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
It still pisses me off that wallstreet is getting away with sanitizing and selling  these mortgages as A+ investments.  Heads should fucking roll.  White collar crime is really where it's at.  Bilk the public out of millions, cause nations to collapse and walk the fuck away clean as a newborn baby...

Momentary Rant!!!!!




_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:56:49 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

As reporters started giggling, Obama came close to conceding that Biden was indeed a joke. "You know, I don't remember exactly what Joe was referring to, not surprisingly."

The President went on to say that "I think what Joe may have been suggesting, although I wouldn't ascribe any numerical percentage to any of this, is that given the magnitude of the challenges that we have, any single thing that we do is going to be part of the solution, not all of the solution."

Of course, Biden wasn't saying anything of the sort - Obama knew that and all the rest of us did too.


Biden's exact quote, read out by Fox's Major Garrett at the presser was: "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, if we stand up there and we really make the tough decisions, there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong." Clearly, Obama and his aides were unhappy about Biden's loose lips. On Friday, top Obama adviser David Axelrod said on CNN: "I don't know exactly about what that math was."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/02/10/barack_obama_throws_joe_biden_under_the_bus


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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 8:59:09 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: snappykappy

please someone explain this to me

when they say they are gonna create 4 million new jobs or save some in the 4 million

and they want to take credit for the new jobs

would these be jobs that no one has ever had before be their justification

how in the hell can they justify that when there have been 3.6 million jobs lost

this would mean they would have to have the 4 million plus the 3.6 million jobs which are no longer to have an increase of 4 million

their math does not compute



If you lose a dollar you are going to have to earn or  "create" a new one.  You simply can't have your "old" dollar back.

Follow?  A job is similar. If I lose my job I will have to find a new one unless I get my old job back.  Many companies have gone under or are making, at least for the foreseeable  future, permanent job cuts. These displaced people will have to find "new" jobs in order to be employed.

Now, what you might be asking is whether people that are already employed will be simply given more work?  that is a good question.

Who is going to determine who does all the work repairing the infrastructure?  Is it the unions? Or are we going to train some displaced people to fill these positions.

I would like to know.


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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:00:24 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia
PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING


quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama, pressuring lawmakers to urgently approve a massive economic recovery bill, turned his first prime-time news conference Monday night into a determined defense of his emergency plan and an offensive against Republicans who try to "play the usual political games."

He said the recession has left the nation so weak that only the federal government can "jolt our economy back to life." And he declared that failure to act swiftly and boldly "could turn a crisis into a catastrophe."


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090210/D968ER280.html



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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:05:26 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		i really do not think that a lot of firms will be hiring a lot of new individuals but will keep what they have and if only necessary bring others in to help and then get rid of them after the rush of work to get done and try to keep overhead to a minimum

so it is only a use of semantics when saying there will be 4 million jobs created instead it is just filling the jobs which have been lost

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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:06:22 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


We are fucked, there is no getting around that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

The congressional budget office says that this "stimulus" will hurt the gdp more than the recession. nice. 




PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/09/the-800-billion-gamble-ec_n_165146.html



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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:11:26 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Unless it's changed in conference, as I understand it, all federally funded constrution has to be done with union labor. 

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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:14:48 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: snappykappy

i really do not think that a lot of firms will be hiring a lot of new individuals but will keep what they have and if only necessary bring others in to help and then get rid of them after the rush of work to get done and try to keep overhead to a minimum

so it is only a use of semantics when saying there will be 4 million jobs created instead it is just filling the jobs which have been lost

If you are suggesting 7+ million jobs...get serious. To create 4 million puts us at a higher employement than when this whole thing started.

I am not hopeful anytime soon but that would be a very good place to start.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 9:45:57 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		then that would be a plus of 400,000 new jobs

yes i am suggesting that and if that were to happen the 3.6 million jobs lost and the individuals got them back that would put it at break even and the 4 million would be a plus

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/fact_check_obama

< Message edited by snappykappy -- 2/9/2009 9:47:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 10:35:54 PM   
MasterShake69


Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/print/

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


We are fucked, there is no getting around that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

The congressional budget office says that this "stimulus" will hurt the gdp more than the recession. nice. 




PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING

(in reply to MsDonnaMia)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/9/2009 10:48:12 PM   
MasterShake69


Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline 		how do you measure a saved job?  Make a projection at what you think unemployment would be with no actions.  Then if unemployment stays steady after the bill passes then you are saving jobs based on those previous projections?


quote:

ORIGINAL: snappykappy

please someone explain this to me

when they say they are gonna create 4 million new jobs or save some in the 4 million

and they want to take credit for the new jobs

would these be jobs that no one has ever had before be their justification

how in the hell can they justify that when there have been 3.6 million jobs lost

this would mean they would have to have the 4 million plus the 3.6 million jobs which are no longer to have an increase of 4 million

their math does not compute


(in reply to snappykappy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/10/2009 4:03:37 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    I didn't mean his oratorical skills, Mia.  I mean the doom and gloom and "never" pulling out of the recession unless we pass his package.



well, lol
A healthy dose of gloom and doom is okay!

He should have said we are in a DEPRESSION and it will be worse and last 20 years,
without the stimulus package!


Unfortunately, I think the stimulus package is gonna land us in an Depression that will dwarf the Great Depression.

We're in this mess due to decades of spending money we don't have....and now they're trying to fix it by spending more money that we don't have.

Look at the world even...they in many ways copied our failed economic policies of the last 80 years, and now the world is going bankrupt.  Spending money we don't have when we're insolvent as a nation is not the answer.

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RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/10/2009 4:13:44 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		On a side note. WTF! Why did'nt they escort that dumb assed asshole who asked the baseball question out the door. What did that have to do with the economy?  Why is it so hard for the goverment to say that we are in a recession period. I don't care what Obama does. We are in for a bad year period. We have had huge cuts already and will see more of them.  The fallout has begun and no stimilus plan is going to stop it. We are going nowhere until there is no place for the fallout to go anymore. Stop the bailout and let everything fail on their own and then start building over.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? - 2/10/2009 4:24:45 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think we've found an area of complete agreement, mike. President Bush was a very Liberal spender.



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Is that what has been taking place for the last 8 years .Government was getting out of the way.


It is unfortunate too in that the neo-cons completely abandoned the core conservative principal of small govt. and fiscal responsibility. It has always amazed me how from Reagan on, as far as I have kept track...the repubs added 50,000/year to the federal payroll every year they were in office.

It was during Bush I that we finally had for the first time in this country's history...more people working in govt. than in manufacturing. (19 million to 17 million)

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Profile   Post #: 40
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