RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (Full Version)

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sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 6:00:50 AM)

here's another pov

from my experience, i don't get the stares or looks if my pet (who is white) and i are out in public in a racially mixed neighborhood.  on the flipside, it's the reverse if we were in a Black neighborhood.

we still have a long way to go



Leonidas -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 7:09:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tslaveboy

I was at a BDSM function with some friends (of varied ethnic/racial backgrounds) and a caucasian Master walked by with his black female slave. Some of my black friends told me that seeing a white master and black slave disturbed them.

I've recently met a black woman who wants to be my slave and I was wondering how this would be handled in public situations. Are there different rules in black/white D/s situations that are different from D/s relations where both partners are of the same ethnic/racial background?


Step one:  Recognize that you are not in fact a white plantation owner in 1850, and she didn't just come off the boat from Africa.
Step two: Ask yourself whether you think she deserves to be a slave because she's black.
Step three:  Don't be a racist, i.e. treat her as you would any potential slave, regardless of skin color
Step four: Don't tolerate racisim, i.e. don't accept the judgments of outsiders about your choice of enslaving her based on skin color.

The African slave trade happened a long time ago, and other than a setting for fantasy role-play by some (yes, there are "race players" who like to pretend that they are in that time / hold those values), it doesn't really have much to do with consensual slavery.  The fact that a black girl might prefer a white master is no more relevant than the fact that she might prefer a tall one, or a bald one, or a young one, or an older one.  It's just a preference.

As with anything else, do what you do, and insist on being judged by the substance, rather than the appearance of what you do. 







marie2 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 7:33:55 AM)

I don't see what the problem is, or why people find it disturbing.  But I guess some do.  It shouldn't be any different than an interracial "vanilla" couple, but I guess that's because some people actually believe that bdsmer's really own slaves, and this brings it a little too close to home for them, and it disturbs their little fantasy.

I see this stuff as a chosen relationship dynamic rather than an actual ownership of a human being, therefore, I wouldn't look twice or think anything of it.  Seems odd though, that a bunch of people who identify as masters and slaves actually take offense to such a thing, regardless of skin color.  It's just more tight-assed judgement from a bunch of supposedly open-minded free thinkers.  I would imagine that vanilla interracial couples deal with a lot of the same shit.  I would just go about my business and let them chatter all they want.  I wouldn't do a damn thing differently or make any adjustments.  Be yourselves.  Teach them by example.  



Tslaveboy -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 8:35:09 AM)

It's not exactly that I care about what others think. It's more of an awareness. When I've had interracial vanilla relationships, I was aware of how my partner could be treated in certain situations.

It's not just the black/white thing either. Culturally and ethnically, I'm Croatian. I'm aware that if I should date a Slovenian or Serbian that there are certain cultural things I should be aware of. I never participated in ethnic cleansing (I was actually born in Pennsylvania, not Yugoslavia) but I know that the sins of the ethnic group sometimes get projected to those of us not actually involved. If I were Turkish and fell in love with an Armenian girl, I know I better be prepared for a rough time until I establish myself.

Some things just require having an awareness. So my original question dealt with the awareness I should have in interracial BDSM situations in public settings.

As for dating outside of the race; I actually was a bit excited when I was around the Slovenian girl because of the tension. I believe she also felt a bit of excitement about it. I know both groups are Yugoslav, but still the excitement was there. So I would think the excitement must be very intense for a blonde-haired white person when they connect with someone so different than themself.



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 9:08:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
there are several reasons why i never dated inside my race but i'll give you two (1) how i grew up and (2) the way i present myself as a woman.  i won't say all but many that i've become friends with don't want to date me because i grow up in around or in mix racial neighborhoods, i was taught to speak English (not Ebonics or slang) and groomed to be a lady (yep did the debutante thing and all that).
It's a good thing you said this yourself.   Must be a burden having to go through life constantly needing to prove that you are more like white folks and therefore not as uncouth as the rest of the people who look like you. 

quote:

most of my life i've lived in a white neighborhood, went to the best schools in that area, surrounded myself with white, hispanic, and asian friends (i had a few black ones) and plus most of my relatives are white or bi-racial
Congratulations on having a diverse upbringing.   Were you at that time equal in behavior to those neighbors, or were all of them proper acting, except the few black ones?   
quote:

so that's where "i'm too white for my own race" comes from.  many see me as a "white" woman and not as a Black woman. ironically, in the neighborhood i live now, i'm viewed as a "white" woman because i don't sit on the porch smoking, drinking or have loud parties all weekend long.  in my neigborhood, men avoid me like the plague ...women despise me.
I wonder if they view you as a white woman, or whether it is you viewing yourself as a white woman, because you think only black people do this.

quote:

finding a black man compatible to me is like finding a needle in the haystack. i've been on other dating sites ...yes they'll talk a good game but most just want/expect sex after the first date. many don't want a woman who's independent, speaks her mind, etc etc - some take that Bible verse to heart - "wives obey your husbands in all things" and skip the rest. they want to be in charge  "do as i say, woman, not as i do"
I've dated black and white, and I don't allow our differences to make me feel superior or inferior...   I'm just me, and I rather like sharing differences, in an honest, mutually respectful relationship.   I doubt it's your grasp of English that is keeping you from dating black men.   I think maybe it's that they sense that you look down at them as less than you (since you're only half black), and therefore not fit to own your only half black self.    As for the bible verse, wouldn't that make you extra compatible with black men, since you are submissive or slave to your man? [8|]

I've not been all over the US, but know that in those counties around DC, and any other city for that matter, where there are high net worth black families, you wouldn't feel too "cultured."   
And what makes you think that growing up around whites, and learning about that culture makes you more "cultured"  or relevant than any other group and their culture?    I'm also curious as to why you and your cultured self, live in such a poor neighborhood now with people doing nothing, except playing loud music and sitting outside smoking.     I'm not in a wealthy neighborhood, and the blacks and hispanics here don't live that way.     M

quote:

we still have a long way to go
The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.  -Robert M. Persig



rapist -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:02:24 AM)


If the two of you are happy then there is nothing wrong. I hope that people, all people, have moved on from the past and the colour of our skins.

A white master and black slave should be no different to any other mix. Some people find it taboo, others revel in it. But mostly none of that should matter - if the pair of you are happy that is sufficient.



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:03:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
there are several reasons why i never dated inside my race but i'll give you two (1) how i grew up and (2) the way i present myself as a woman.  i won't say all but many that i've become friends with don't want to date me because i grow up in around or in mix racial neighborhoods, i was taught to speak English (not Ebonics or slang) and groomed to be a lady (yep did the debutante thing and all that).
It's a good thing you said this yourself.   Must be a burden having to go through life constantly needing to prove that you are more like white folks and therefore not as uncouth as the rest of the people who look like you. 

who said i had the need to prove myself more like white folks? i would rather have my own identity like oldest has now when i was her age. however my parents joined the clubs and i got tagged along for the ride. i HATED living in the "bubble". to me it wasn't real but i had to play the role and act the part  because it was the "in" to do - join the right clubs, have the right friends and be as your parents hope you become.

quote:

most of my life i've lived in a white neighborhood, went to the best schools in that area, surrounded myself with white, hispanic, and asian friends (i had a few black ones) and plus most of my relatives are white or bi-racial
Congratulations on having a diverse upbringing.   Were you at that time equal in behavior to those neighbors, or were all of them proper acting, except the few black ones? 
neighbors liked me because i was a well-behaved (sometimes even better than own kids) child who didn't cause trouble or bring down the property values ...because my parents were both working and kept their property liveable and manicured. where i grew up - appearance was (and still is) everything.

quote:

so that's where "i'm too white for my own race" comes from.  many see me as a "white" woman and not as a Black woman. ironically, in the neighborhood i live now, i'm viewed as a "white" woman because i don't sit on the porch smoking, drinking or have loud parties all weekend long.  in my neigborhood, men avoid me like the plague ...women despise me.
I wonder if they view you as a white woman, or whether it is you viewing yourself as a white woman, because you think only black people do this.
you need to hang around my neighborhood sometimes. not a day goes by when i hear "hey white woman! where are you going today ...off to the library? hey can i date your white um?"  it's wrong for you to presume that i'm viewing myself as a white woman - actually i'm multi-racial. i'm raising my girls almost (sans the debutante / teas crap) the same way i was - to be educated and cultured young women.

quote:

finding a black man compatible to me is like finding a needle in the haystack. i've been on other dating sites ...yes they'll talk a good game but most just want/expect sex after the first date. many don't want a woman who's independent, speaks her mind, etc etc - some take that Bible verse to heart - "wives obey your husbands in all things" and skip the rest. they want to be in charge  "do as i say, woman, not as i do"
I've dated black and white, and I don't allow our differences to make me feel superior or inferior...   I'm just me, and I rather like sharing differences, in an honest, mutually respectful relationship.   I doubt it's your grasp of English that is keeping you from dating black men.   I think maybe it's that they sense that you look down at them as less than you (since you're only half black), and therefore not fit to own your only half black self.    As for the bible verse, wouldn't that make you extra compatible with black men, since you are submissive or slave to your man? [8|]
i've never looked down on my Black men - have never found one who is compatible to me and meets my standards.

as for the Bible verse, i'm marrying my pet - he'll obey me. and it wouldn't make me any compatible with a black man simply because i'm black and submissive. i don't mix religion with BDSM and vice versa.

quote:

I've not been all over the US, but know that in those counties around DC, and any other city for that matter, where there are high net worth black families, you wouldn't feel too "cultured."   
And what makes you think that growing up around whites, and learning about that culture makes you more "cultured"  or relevant than any other group and their culture?

cultured as in going to art museums, operas, plays, musicials - my parents devoted time to my upbringing ...giving me a well-round childhood. it has nothing to do with growing up in a white neighborhood - i just happened to attend the best schools where i was the noticeable minority amongst the student population. i never grew up where the majority was Black. i never attend schools (until college) were i was the majority. Black History wasn't taught in my schools ...that was an extra credit assignment. i learned about everyone else's culture and history except my own.

quote:

I'm also curious as to why you and your cultured self, live in such a poor neighborhood now with people doing nothing, except playing loud music and sitting outside smoking.     I'm not in a wealthy neighborhood, and the blacks and hispanics here don't live that way.     M

that's your city or neighborhood.

i live in Chicago and why i live in a "poor" neighborhood - well, really it's none of your business but i'll answer to satisfy your curious mind. the rents here are high - the 2 bedroom i live now would be 4 times high in a upscale neighborhood. affordable housing is an oxymoronic phrase around here. it might be a "poor" neighborhood but at least i'm walking distance my youngest charter school ...public transportation runs 24/7 and close to the hospital in case my oldest needs emergency care. at the present, i'm planning to move and since i don't have a car - looking for a place near public transportation.



domiguy -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:27:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordRiga

Absolutely nothing wrong with a White Man owning several black slaves, not like they will be picking cotton anytime soon any longer.. All the black men want is token white girls because they do everything when the black women dont. But nothing wrong with their slavery.


So refreshing to see an intelligent post. 

I am confused with "Absolutely nothing wrong with a White Man owning several black slaves, not like they will be picking cotton anytime soon any longer"

But  I don't think you needed to add "any longer" as it seems to be rather redundant to you main thought.

Why would a token white girl do everything when the black women don't????

Makes little sense.  Can you clear this mattter up. 

Why can't the black slaves pick cotton?  What exactly do those token white girls do?   I am concerned that I might not be taking full advantage of my white ho's.  Any further knowledge on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

I like you.  You are a breath of fresh air.
 
 



RacialPlay -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:28:07 AM)

I have to say that I'm only interested in the freedom and diversity of an interracial relationship.

I certainly recognise that it might make people uncomfortable, but at the same time I love it. It does push all my buttons.

(Though I hasten to add outside the roleplay I'm in no way racist. I suspect that people who disapprove of such relationships do so largely because they suspect racism as the core. In much the same way that some people see age-play and actual interest in children as synonyms despite that clearly not being the case.)

S



Jack45 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:33:45 AM)

A few years ago in Oregon a white guy was on leave from Iraq and took his black wife out to dance. Several Oregon College basketball players saw that and beat him almost to death on the dance floor. They were suspended from school for a while, so I think they learned their lesson but still.



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 10:34:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordRiga

All the black men want is token white girls because they do everything when the black women dont.


i've heard this in vice versa (from a white man) as to why white men want a token black woman because she'll do things white women won't.



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 11:01:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
there are several reasons why i never dated inside my race but i'll give you two (1) how i grew up and (2) the way i present myself as a woman.  i won't say all but many that i've become friends with don't want to date me because i grow up in around or in mix racial neighborhoods, i was taught to speak English (not Ebonics or slang) and groomed to be a lady (yep did the debutante thing and all that).
It's a good thing you said this yourself.   Must be a burden having to go through life constantly needing to prove that you are more like white folks and therefore not as uncouth as the rest of the people who look like you. 
who said i had the need to prove myself more like white folks? i would rather have my own identity like oldest has now when i was her age. however my parents joined the clubs and i got tagged along for the ride. i HATED living in the "bubble". to me it wasn't real but i had to play the role and act the part  because it was the "in" to do - join the right clubs, have the right friends and be as your parents hope you become
I don't think you lived in a bubble.   You lived in an upper middle class neighborhood, and it's good that you had access to so many different things.   The issue I took was with your characterization of yourself as being ladylike, and not into ebonics, therefore being unable to relate to black men because you perceive them all to be that way.     What I was trying to tell you that cultural differences exist, and being street smart because one didn't have access to wealth and good schools is valid.

quote:

you need to hang around my neighborhood sometimes. not a day goes by when i hear "hey white woman! where are you going today ...off to the library? hey can i date your white um?"  it's wrong for you to presume that i'm viewing myself as a white woman - actually i'm multi-racial. i'm raising my girls almost (sans the debutante / teas crap) the same way i was - to be educated and cultured young women.
People are perceptive    Your words on this thread gave me a certain impression; that you prefer white, and you feel black men are unfit.    I'm telling you, that even though compatibility and desire are complicated things to come by in a mate, they are influenced by our minds/hearts, even more than our access to compatible people IMO.

quote:

i've never looked down on my Black men - have never found one who is compatible to me and meets my standards.

as for the Bible verse, i'm marrying my pet - he'll obey me. and it wouldn't make me any compatible with a black man simply because i'm black and submissive. i don't mix religion with BDSM and vice versa.
I know you say you are marrying your pet, but you previously said you are submissive to or owned by a white man, which would suggest to me, that you do follow and obey, etc...

quote:

cultured as in going to art museums, operas, plays, musicials - my parents devoted time to my upbringing ...giving me a well-round childhood. it has nothing to do with growing up in a white neighborhood - i just happened to attend the best schools where i was the noticeable minority amongst the student population. i never grew up where the majority was Black. i never attend schools (until college) were i was the majority
I know what you are saying.    My point was that when you are among people who have the money and are into that, they go regardless of how much melanin.    When I lived in Alexandria, and went to the Kennedy center, or Ford theatre, etc, at least half of the people there were black.

I've done more learning since leaving college than I did while I was there.    I never endeavored to understand people, and race matters before I was stopped for driving while black in a car that was apparently too nice for me.    There is a certain amount of time you waste being angry.    Than you have to decide whether it's productive to go around hating yourself, or other people for treating you ignorantly, or to dispose of the bullshit you've learned at home or on the streets that are no longer useful...   Than you meet wonderful people inside and outside of your family, who show humanity beyond what you ever imagined a human capable, and you realize that people simply are, and it's each person's choice to live in a way that honors all, or only separates self from others.

quote:

i live in Chicago and why i live in a "poor" neighborhood - well, really it's none of your business but i'll answer to satisfy your curious mind. the rents here are high - the 2 bedroom i live now would be 4 times high in a upscale neighborhood. affordable housing is an oxymoronic phrase around here. it might be a "poor" neighborhood but at least i'm walking distance my youngest charter school ...public transportation runs 24/7 and close to the hospital in case my oldest needs emergency care. at the present, i'm planning to move and since i don't have a car - looking for a place near public transportation.
When I asked the rhetorical question about where you live, it was more to make you think about the fact that when you lived in the nice neighborhood, those people, including black, behaved differently...    M



lronitulstahp -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 3:22:25 PM)

quote:

There is a certain amount of time you waste being angry.    Than you have to decide whether it's productive to go around hating yourself, or other people for treating you ignorantly, or to dispose of the bullshit you've learned at home or on the streets that are no longer useful...   Than you meet wonderful people inside and outside of your family, who show humanity beyond what you ever imagined a human capable, and you realize that people simply are, and it's each person's choice to live in a way that honors all, or only separates self from others.
i so want to hug you for saying that....


Let me add....i have had white Doms, and i now serve a Black Dom.  Men are men...it's the brain and soul of a person that determines their worth. 

i've had the whole "you don't semm/act/think(whatever) like a Black woman."  i personally find that offensive.  i am a woman of mixed race.  It's obvious when you see me, but i consider myself a Black woman. Period.

i have been with brilliant men, at the top of ther respective careers.  The TDHO is one of the most educated, cultured, intellegent, articulate well-spoken men i have ever met.  i choose to follow Him for those reasons...not His Caramel sexiness.  Were He a white guy, with all the same attributes...i'd have done the same.  That being said, there is a certain level of understanding, and explaining i don't have to do because we do share a common culture. 



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 3:26:35 PM)

Thank you lronitulstahp.   I'd hug you right back.   [:)]   M



Tslaveboy -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 6:48:42 PM)

It's very nice if people look past the exterior into the depths of each person's soul. But many of us are visual creatures.

I've heard women say they only date men between 5'11" and 6'2" tall. Nothing shorter or taller. That eliminates a whole range of people. Hugh Hefner can have his pick of any woman he wants, yet he consistently goes for the same types Same hair color, same weight range, same height, same age range.

I date all types of women. The tallest 6'3", shortest 4'8" Weight ranges from 350 to 92 lbs. I date all ethnic groups, but for some reason the most beautiful tend to be mediterranean or black. If you want to know who I think is one of the most beautiful women in the world, take a look at Persis Khambatta, or Goddess Glory. Eva Longoria also does it for me.

But am I eliminating Paris Hilton becauae she doesn't look like these women. Well, Paris Hilton doesn't do anything for me at all. Maybe if I met her I'd like her personality, but visually she does not appeal to me. But is that a rejection of my race because I don't find Paris Hilton attractive? I don't think so.



Sinimint -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/16/2009 6:51:07 PM)

You know, in Australia this wouldn't ever be an issue, nobody would even bat an eyelid. 

I just dont understand this being a problem, but then again I haven't lived in the USA and dont understand what it's like over there.  Here in Australia, as I said, it wouldn't matter if the person was green, blue, black, orange, white, caramel, purple as we're all the same - right?

Sorry, I'm so confused by this and always have been.............. what has a persons skin colour got to do with anything????  We're all human - this is so very strange to me that I cant even put it properly into words.



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/17/2009 1:20:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tslaveboy
It's very nice if people look past the exterior into the depths of each person's soul. But many of us are visual creatures.
Is this in reply to something I said?   There's nothing wrong with anyone being attracted to any type, as long as it doesn't cross some severe moral/ethical/legal boundaries, but don't recall ever saying different.    M



NuevaVida -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/17/2009 8:19:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

i have been with brilliant men, at the top of ther respective careers.  The TDHO is one of the most educated, cultured, intellegent, articulate well-spoken men i have ever met.  i choose to follow Him for those reasons...not His Caramel sexiness.  Were He a white guy, with all the same attributes...i'd have done the same.  That being said, there is a certain level of understanding, and explaining i don't have to do because we do share a common culture. 



I highlighted the above because having spent all day yesterday watching movies in my living room and talking with the (black) man I'm recently seeing, I came to realize I feel like such a foreigner to his culture, and it intimidated me.  This man is gorgeous, sexy, intelligent and very kind.  And yet there seem to be so many areas I don't relate to him with and I wonder if that will eventually become a barrier to us developing anything further.  Now I realize we create our own barriers, but I have honestly never felt this disconnected from someone else's upbringing and way of life.  I would very much appreciate anything anyone can advise me about this.  I've never cared what pigmentation someone was born with, but I also never considered how different our cultures may be.



MasterOfGSIS -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/17/2009 10:58:05 AM)

I would say that if it makes you happy to pursue it, and for friends of yours, if they saw the connection between the two of you, they could get over it.  As far as everyone else, it pretty much doesn't matter as long as your happy.



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Interracial Master/sub relationships (2/17/2009 7:43:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I highlighted the above because having spent all day yesterday watching movies in my living room and talking with the (black) man I'm recently seeing, I came to realize I feel like such a foreigner to his culture, and it intimidated me.  This man is gorgeous, sexy, intelligent and very kind.  And yet there seem to be so many areas I don't relate to him with and I wonder if that will eventually become a barrier to us developing anything further.  Now I realize we create our own barriers, but I have honestly never felt this disconnected from someone else's upbringing and way of life.  I would very much appreciate anything anyone can advise me about this.  I've never cared what pigmentation someone was born with, but I also never considered how different our cultures may be.
Hi NuevaVida, I'm going to share my experiences, and hopefully they will be helpful to you, but YMMV.    For one reason or another, I've dated men who are culturally different for the last several years.    I'm single now, but cultural differences has never been the reason for the breakdown/dissolution of the relationship (unless you consider cheating on vanilla girlfriend, afraid of commitment-so let's just casually date forever, and, too bratty/hostile for me, cultural differences [;)]).   There was the "my family may not understand" issue, but ultimately that was the smaller part of the issues this particular boy carried.

In my opinion, if you share similar morals and ethics, are both capable of decent communication skills, share chemistry, goodwill/respect toward one another, than you have as reasonable a chance at success as any 2 people in a relationship.    You will have to rely more on verbal accounts for some experiences, rather than one person mentioning and the other excitedly saying "yes I know what you mean, I saw/did the same."  

Most of the people I've dated, listen when I speak, ask for clarification or examples, and I do the same in terms of listening and asking questions.   We keep sarcasm to a minimum, and if a phrase comes out sounding inapropriate, we discuss and move on.     Extra sensitivity is necessary for a little while, as you get to know one another, and develop the trust that you're not out to hurt, or otherwise diminish each other.   A major necessity is healthy, but not enormous egos; because a normal ego, can withstand getting and giving information, without taking facts/details too personally, or becoming offended at every little thing.   You have to trust that if he says something that seems inappropriate, it is due to not knowing any better, before you instruct him differently, and vice versa.

I hope things work out for you, if there is enough healthy communication and attraction,   M



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