RE: References

RE: References (Full Version)

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MarcEsadrian -> RE: References (2/11/2009 2:22:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I am 46almost47 years old and have NEVER been asked for, or asked another person for, a reference before beginning a personal relationship with someone. The very idea hasn't even crossed my mind. I'm in the same camp. I actually prefer the complete opposite of the reference idea, for those who have had past personal experiences with an individual are biased, and that bias will be shaped by their own values. I would never want the perceptions of others making decisions for who I associate with and why. I've said this numerous times on these boards, but the idea is worth repeating: think for yourself.

persephonee -> RE: References (2/11/2009 2:30:43 PM)
i have asked for and received references before playing with someone new, but what i think you experienced was more of a networking kind of reference if there is such a thing in WIITWD...where making a good impression on long standing members of the public community could benefit you in one way or another if you get your subs via the public circuit, such as it might be in Iowa... im from Nebraska originally, and know some folks in the community out that way...which is why i say, "such as it is"....Midwest play groups in general are a bit differently constructed than out here...just regional diversity. i dont know how the whole subculture thing works out and am anxiously awaiting Fey to continue her thought...i even cmailed her....hehe.

Mercnbeth -> RE: References (2/11/2009 2:37:49 PM)
*~ Fast Reply ~* References are very important and good for one thing. They provide a very good source of blame down the road for whatever happens as a result of the reference. They are a way to take the pressure off yourself when making decisions. Anyone who gives me a 'good' reference obviously doesn't know me as well as they think they do. I don't, and wouldn't recommend, hanging around anyone who would provide such a reference because they are a terrible judge of people and their character. I know, and don't try to change myself. I am a sadistic, sarcastic ass-hole; and it amuses me [sm=rofl.gif] to no end to 'fuck' [sm=stickineye.gif] with people. I don't put on airs or try to be anything else. In fact, I try to live up to my 'sadist sarcastic ass-hole' reputation, and only hang out with those who know, and appreciate, that endearing quality about me. For an 'sarcastic ass-hole' confirming reference - just ask 'Simply Michael' or 'SteelofUtah' or even 'WyldHrt'. What about beth????[sm=flash.gif] Well remember, beth is a masochist![sm=bowdown.gif] Being with me 24/7 requires that masochistic mental and emotional processing of living with a sadistic, sarcastic ass-hole as 'pleasurable'. [sm=shake.gif][sm=whip.gif] [sm=evil.gif]

MidMichCowboy -> RE: References (2/11/2009 2:51:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee You are a barbarian...that is documented and drooled over by many many on here at least. Is this a real reference? [:)]

CreativeDominant -> RE: References (2/11/2009 2:51:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I was reading a thread Michael created regarding monogamy when I read a post regarding references. So, instead of hijacking his thread, I decided to create a new one. References is a subject I just do not understand when it comes to all of this. I think of references in the context of a job or perhaps renting a house. I don't think of references when it comes to relationships. Yet, I often read/hear about it. Two friends of mine, female dominant and female slave, were horrified when I turned down an invitation to go with them to the "house" they met at. It is a house, in upstate New York, that is female dominant led, with approximately 6 or 8 females in service, in a very formal and ranked manner. They felt that to go, and spend time there, would be beneficial in that I would gain status and have references. I looked at my bank account and available vacation time and said, "thank you but no thanks". Apparently that was a huge mistake on my part. I think I can live with it. This same couple, were having the slave's former mistress visit for a day. The dominant was a nervous wreck because she was worried about not making a good impression. When I asked why, what possible reason would she have for feeling so strongly about impressing a complete stranger? I got something like "So I have good references!" And the slave, she has always discussed that her history in service, gives her good references. Now I don't criticize, these people are my friends and have taught me a great deal. Even if much of it, is simply learning what I don't want. Yet, I really honestly do not understand the importance of references. We are not talking about a work history in correlation to applying for a job. We are talking about our personal relationships! I am 46almost47 years old and have NEVER been asked for, or asked another person for, a reference before beginning a personal relationship with someone. The very idea hasn't even crossed my mind. So I ask why. I don't want to debate whether it's right or wrong, or suggest my way is better than my friend's ways. I am just curious where it comes from and why, if it is important to anyone here and why. And perhaps understand the reasoning as it applies to this type of relationship. Why for this and yet never for any vanilla relationship I have ever seen or heard of in modern, western world, times. I agree with you, LaT. I am who and what I am. To some, that means a great friend. To others, it means a great doctor. To others, it means a dominant with creativity and intelligence and patience and a big heart. To others, who and what I am is a shithead. The fact that I approach people in the same manner no matter who they are makes no difference...what makes the difference is where each person I deal with is at in their life, where I am at in my life, and what our interactions are with each other. Knowing this, I might do as Michael notes and ask someone I know who knows the other person in order to get another impression but ultimately, I always give the person I am meeting the same benefit of making up my own mind rather than listen to what someone else has said as I hope they will give me.

feydeplume -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:00:13 PM)
Also when someone is giving a class or a demo, I want to know what makes they think that they have the necessary background to speak knowledgeably about the topic. I am with you on the safety call thing. I AM the safe call for a few friends. I'm an insomniac so pretty much no matter how late the date goes, I will be waiting for the call to make sure they are ok.

persephonee -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:15:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee You are a barbarian...that is documented and drooled over by many many on here at least. Is this a real reference? [:)] A weal and twuer reference you will never find, my sweet barbarian.

LaTigresse -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:17:37 PM)
I can understand the instructor, and even possibly the less personal play, specific. I was thinking more along the lines of, personal relationships, even friendships. Because what will make me a good partner, friend, mistress, lover......to some, will make me a horrible one to others. The friends I spoke of are exceedingly high protocol. Most of their aquaintances (and they) are fairly wealthy, some are european. And, as far as I know, all are women, now that I think about it. I think that perhaps there is a mindset that some have, that it is some elusive and very special, "club" for lack of a better word. That somehow their way/style, of living M/s is so perfect and requires so much training on both sides, that the references are their way of maintaining that exclusivity. Of somehow feeling superiour. It is very rigid but underneath it all I always feel such fear of failure. It just doesn't sound like very much fun.

RedMagic1 -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:19:32 PM)
I've actually sent the Positive Experiences wedding thread to two women, as an indirect way to provide references for myself. And - hijack - I am so sorry I didn't introduce myself to you, persephone. I didn't realize you were you until someone told me who Cecil was demo-ing with. And then, well, you were kinda busy.

LaTigresse -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:31:31 PM)
Okay Red, but for what purpose? To prove that they have met you? That you are a living breathing human being? That you are a likable kinda guy? I am not being bitchy, just wondering what the end goal of that might be.

LovingMistress45 -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:35:29 PM)
I don't require references from a sub and I don't offer references. However, if asked I can provide references that would vouch for the fact that I am a Sadistic Bitch, but that I am safe and sane (well as sane as a Sadist can be and safe as in everyone I have played with is still alive with all their limbs intact). On the other hand I don't understand the need to put down what others do in this lifestyle. I would suggest some reading on the origins of the BDSM Community and the Old Guard way which is where the reference thing originates from and at that it was needed for safety. The community was very underground for very good and real reasons. Even if some of us do not choose to follow the old protocals it doesn't hurt to understand the origins and purpose or for that matter to know our history. I would guess that your friends are part of or interested in becoming part of a group that keeps at least some of the Old Guard Protocal. Not for me, but I don't knock what others do as I don't want anyone knock what I do. We all have different kinks and desires - I say live and let live.

persephonee -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:37:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I've actually sent the Positive Experiences wedding thread to two women, as an indirect way to provide references for myself. And - hijack - I am so sorry I didn't introduce myself to you, persephone. I didn't realize you were you until someone told me who Cecil was demo-ing with. And then, well, you were kinda busy. i, too am sorry we didnt meet, Sir. i really was disappointed when red sent me a pic with you in it and i realized that we were at opposite ends of a table at the reception and i was remiss in introducing myself. You were at the Shed??....hehe, i was a touch involved. You have cmail, or you will in a minute.... perse end hijack.

LaTigresse -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:41:01 PM)
Perhaps you need to reread my initial post where I stress that I am in fact NOT putting down what my friend do. As for the old guard leather men, I also understand why that was secretive and needed to be more closely guarded. I was not discussing why they did what they did. I am discussing the present time and a different situation. Their history is not my history. But thank you for your contribution, misguided though it was.

RedMagic1 -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:41:43 PM)
Oh, hell, LaT. It's because a lady I met said I was a nice-looking package, and she slobbered and drooled about me. Both women thanked me for sending them the link, and said they enjoyed reading it, and it looked as though I had a great time. It wouldn't really matter much if I hadn't sent it. It's a few extra flirtation points, that's all. One lady (the dancer, if she's reading this) I'm actively interested in meeting. The other lives on a different continent, and we're just bantering. I had testimonials on my Alt profile when it was up, and I have a handful of links to the message boards here in my journal, to posts where people say nice things about me. It's no big deal, but why not make it available if you have it?

domiguy -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:50:29 PM)
I have always utilized references in all of my past relationships, even the vanilla ones. I remember demanding references before I was willing to take this filipino chick out to the movies. I spoke to her ex, Tyler, on the phone. He said, "Dude, Carly might be a small girl and everything but her pussy is huge!" Without getting references I would have inevitably lost half of my shit to a huge holed Fillipino chick named Carly. Thank you Tyler. You will forever be in my thoughts and prayers.

LovingMistress45 -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:51:19 PM)
LaTigresse, I understood your post. My comment about putting other's down was not in refering to your post. It was in response to some comment made on this thread as well as on some others. Not sure why you think my contribution was misguided - you were asking why someone would want them and my comment as to do with that origin. However, as you have no interest I won't bother with further comments.

feydeplume -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:52:47 PM)
the only concrete reason i can see for a "reference" for a personal relationships is puts on thinking cap ok... how about knowing that they are a drug addict and in denial about it? or that they actually are married? or other serious legal stuff having to do with being bad to UMs? I know i am really stretching there, but you asked so i tried to answer. Some conpeople (is that the PC term?) can talk a great line and we all hope that we can spot the lies and often we do. during first contacts people tend to be on their best behavior and not mention things like criminal records or spouses. Some do, and more power to them for being honest and up front. But some don't

Madame4a -> RE: References (2/11/2009 3:58:16 PM)
FR Didn't we just do this? yes, here is the most recent ... http://www.collarchat.com/m_2437834/mpage_1/tm.htm References are part of a tool box.. use them if you want.. or don't.. .don't put down those that do.. and don't look down your nose at those who don't.. they don't take away from anything.... and used correctly... obtained correctly, they can be helpful for me, my preference is someone in the community, someone who's out and about.. chances are there is someone I know that might know them... I'd prefer someone like that.. so checking around will be helpful I'm sure... I don't know why this gets people all riled up.. don't like 'em don't use 'em

persephonee -> RE: References (2/11/2009 4:03:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy I have always utilized references in all of my past relationships, even the vanilla ones. I remember demanding references before I was willing to take this filipino chick out to the movies. I spoke to her ex, Tyler, on the phone. He said, "Dude, Carly might be a small girl and everything but her pussy is huge!" Without getting references I would have inevitably lost half of my shit to a huge holed Fillipino chick named Carly. Thank you Tyler. You will forever be in my thoughts and prayers. snort...now youre just tryin to make me wet....damn you.

feydeplume -> RE: References (2/11/2009 4:08:11 PM)
And here i just thought i was having Deja vu or arguing with the voices on my mp3 player (my TWUE dom). Thank you Ma'am for bringing that thread back to this one.

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