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RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 5:31:30 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I am going to start a fetish called "being forced straight".
any takers?

Its up there with my Forced Masculinization training with the sissy boys from my vampireslair profile.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 41

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 5:53:11 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Let's go back a bit. First of all, I would say the comment in bold was completely uncalled for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixpack

i never wanted to get an erection today...it was an accident! Thats all ive known for the past monthes...my only way for release so when i saw it or many of them in person ..it just happened!

Yes, exactly. Your Domme has conditioned you to have this response. Therefore your body is being obedient to her will, when this happens. So then why are you so upset about it? You do not wish to be obedient to her?

Ummmm... he is not a dog. Don't fuck with his head like that. If he is not into it he isn't. If he is bi-curious, but not ready to go there yet, it is not for her to decide on something that big by trying to force him. The out and out cruelty and lack of caring of some Dommes never ceases to astonish me. Yes I know, the image is that you are the worst bitch ever. Even that has boundaries. He should tell her to go to hell - and you too.

Perhaps I was reading something other than what brought that response. If I recall correctly, the OP never stated this was a hard limit. I believe the initial comment to the Domme bringing up this subject for play is that he would rather not. I'm not saying that's not all well and good for the OP, but would rather not isn't exactly a clearly defined limit. It may be an area that the Domme in question heard as an area for growth that could be worked with.

As for not fucking with someone's head, somebody had better call the kink police. The last I understood, mind fucking is a very common practice among some of those of us who engage in wiitwd. It may very well be that the mind play is being used as a tool to further the experience for the sub, even if the actual play is never introduced.

Telling someone to go to hell because they relate something that they find is a turn on leads to people shutting down and not being able to openly express what excites them. This happens to be a subject that I tell My sub turns Me on quite often. Even if it's not something the sub is willing to do, why should the Dominant not tell the submissive that the mental imagery is hot for her?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 42

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 11:41:47 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixpack

I just came home from the gym and had a humiliating experience! A Domme I had recently been playing with had asked me if i would ever be willing to do a bi scene, and i replied that i would rather not. She was very persistant in telling me how much that would turn her on. i still denied, however she started using various schemes as a form of punishment for me. They included watching gay porn and bringing myself to orgasm while watching or looking at various magazines. If I didnt do as she said I was severly punished. Well to make a long story short I got done working out and was in the shower and i became erect looking at other men and was humiliated! Do you believe that people can be brainwashed ? Just curious

sixpack, yes they can but you were not!

CP

(in reply to sixpack)

Post #: 43

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 11:48:19 AM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

I could care less about the mindfuck, I'm talking about the potential danger - this shit can get you arrested, beat up or even killed, so if you're not that hardcore, I'd do some operant counter conditioning on myself at the bare minimum.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 44

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 11:59:36 AM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

i.e., operant conditioning is a two edged sword, and the law of unintended consequences applies in some serious non trivial ways: if the conditions are not specific enough, the response can be unpredictable, as it is in this case - the conditioner wither doesn't know what she's doing, or public humiliation was the goal, since the condition trigger is specific to a very general stimulus: the sight of another naked male.

i.e., if I trained a sub to drop to her knees and give me a blowjob every time I snapped my fingers, there is a risk that if she is nodding off in public and sombody snaps their fingers to wake her up, she'll drop to her knees and give them a blowjob - this may not be exactly what I had intended - what if the snapper happens to be a child? There is no way of predicting what will happen, the normal rules of common sense may be suspended.

i.e., Pavlov's dogs likely ended up responding to any bell.

If you're going to do this, it's better to use a combination stimulus that is highly specific and contextual, i.e., additional mediating stimuli unlikely to occur randomly, much like a safeword, otherwise there is a significant risk of an uncontrolled response to a random, accidental stimulus.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 2/13/2009 12:02:12 PM >

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 45

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 12:18:34 PM

msselenesweewee

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/12/2009
Status: offline

YES!! What a brilliant job your Domme has done, and what IS wrong with being turned on by other guys? Be proud to show it and make sure that people see it. The whole point is that sex is a pleasure, not a shame!! Hope you get happy.
Msselenesweewee xx

(in reply to sixpack)

Post #: 46

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 3:24:11 PM

QuixoticErrant

Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Let's go back a bit. First of all, I would say the comment in bold was completely uncalled for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixpack

i never wanted to get an erection today...it was an accident! Thats all ive known for the past monthes...my only way for release so when i saw it or many of them in person ..it just happened!

Yes, exactly. Your Domme has conditioned you to have this response. Therefore your body is being obedient to her will, when this happens. So then why are you so upset about it? You do not wish to be obedient to her?

Ummmm... he is not a dog. Don't fuck with his head like that. If he is not into it he isn't. If he is bi-curious, but not ready to go there yet, it is not for her to decide on something that big by trying to force him. The out and out cruelty and lack of caring of some Dommes never ceases to astonish me. Yes I know, the image is that you are the worst bitch ever. Even that has boundaries. He should tell her to go to hell - and you too.

Perhaps I was reading something other than what brought that response. If I recall correctly, the OP never stated this was a hard limit. I believe the initial comment to the Domme bringing up this subject for play is that he would rather not. I'm not saying that's not all well and good for the OP, but would rather not isn't exactly a clearly defined limit. It may be an area that the Domme in question heard as an area for growth that could be worked with.

As for not fucking with someone's head, somebody had better call the kink police. The last I understood, mind fucking is a very common practice among some of those of us who engage in wiitwd. It may very well be that the mind play is being used as a tool to further the experience for the sub, even if the actual play is never introduced.

Telling someone to go to hell because they relate something that they find is a turn on leads to people shutting down and not being able to openly express what excites them. This happens to be a subject that I tell My sub turns Me on quite often. Even if it's not something the sub is willing to do, why should the Dominant not tell the submissive that the mental imagery is hot for her?

First off, there is nothing wrong with telling your submissive what you think is exciting - obviously. However, just as obviously, this guy has some issues with this, or he would not have posted in the first place. I hope that's clear enough to not require a diagram.

What should also be clear is that this is not some little thing. This is not like adding some new little extra element to play like a new flogger or something that looks a little scary. This is a question of his sexual identity. For one who is very interested in not telling others what to do, you seem to have very little problem with the idea that she is imposing something so personal on him. You further seem to miss the point that it is truly not her choice to make and that this is a complete disregard for the boy as a person by his utterly self absorbed Domme.

As to the mind fuck, let's be really clear what the mind fuck is that I am objecting to. Along comes a confused and weak individual who is not interested in, or at best conflicted about doing something that he clearly sees as major. Yet, he is also conflicted about pleasing a Domme who is demanding something that she has no right to demand. Rather than tell the fellow to focus on the real question, which is "Is that something you would really want to do?" Along comes another person essentially telling him that he is a bad submissive for not wanting to be bisexual if it would please the whims of his domme. It is not as if either of you care about him is it? It is not as if either of you are trying to be helpful to him is it?

At which point, the proper response for him, is to tell her and you to go to hell.

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/13/2009 4:17:36 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 47

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 8:36:03 PM

MissSepphora1

Posts: 669
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline

I'm sorry, but the definition of bi is if you are a male, even if you are a Sir, and you enjoy having a man suck your cock.
Dom males can be bi too. Why not admit it?

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 48

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 9:24:36 PM

QuixoticErrant

Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I'm sorry, but the definition of bi is if you are a male, even if you are a Sir, and you enjoy having a man suck your cock.
Dom males can be bi too. Why not admit it?

If the intent of your post was to hint that I am somehow threatened by homosexual activities, I promise that I am not. Simply because I don't swing that way means nothing in the context of the discussion. I have met lots of Bi Doms also. So what?

What is in context is though, is that how you swing must be solely your own choice and that no one has the right to try to make it for you or push you in any one direction. Now, if you can agree with that basic notion, then we have no argument.

The title of the thread is forced bi help. The OP uses words like humiliating. Does this sound like a happy camper to you? He has to choose for himself what his orientation is. She has no right to try to force him. If he were interested in experimenting in this direction, then more power to him. However, he certainly sounds less than thrilled. If he had any self respect, he would tell her to go to hell for insisting.

What I see are some Dommes getting cranky because they are being reminded that even they have to respect certain boundaries. Too bad sister. I am honestly appalled at many of the commenters here.

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/13/2009 10:06:39 PM >

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 49

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 10:26:59 PM

MissSepphora1

Posts: 669
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline

Okay, woah. That was not meant to you, I just scrolled down to the bottom of the page and entered my response in the box. The response was toward the sub on page 2 who said she and her Sir get turned on by male subs sucking his cock, but he's not bi. Well, he is bi. I didn't say YOU were bi.
And I already said the Domme was cruel. But hey, some subs like humiliated.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 50

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/13/2009 10:29:33 PM

QuixoticErrant

Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Okay, woah. That was not meant to you, I just scrolled down to the bottom of the page and entered my response in the box. The response was toward the sub on page 2 who said she and her Sir get turned on by male subs sucking his cock, but he's not bi. Well, he is bi. I didn't say YOU were bi.
And I already said the Domme was cruel. But hey, some subs like humiliated.

Then please accept my apology for the misunderstanding. All is good :)

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 51

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/15/2009 5:06:28 PM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote]ORIGINAL: msselenesweewee

YES!! What a brilliant job your Domme has done, and what IS wrong with being turned on by other guys? Be proud to show it and make sure that people see it. The whole point is that sex is a pleasure, not a shame!! Hope you get happy.
Msselenesweewee xx
[/quote]

What this "brilliant" Domme didn't seem to take into consideration is the repercussions, aftermath and possible mental stress her fetish would cause. This is my biggest complaint about wiitwd. Doms need to take responsibility for their actions after the session is done.

Like they say; "it's all fun and games until someone puts an eye out".

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 2/15/2009 5:52:38 PM >

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to msselenesweewee)

Post #: 52

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/15/2009 9:48:56 PM

QuixoticErrant

Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

quote]ORIGINAL: msselenesweewee

YES!! What a brilliant job your Domme has done, and what IS wrong with being turned on by other guys? Be proud to show it and make sure that people see it. The whole point is that sex is a pleasure, not a shame!! Hope you get happy.
Msselenesweewee xx

What this "brilliant" Domme didn't seem to take into consideration is the repercussions, aftermath and possible mental stress her fetish would cause. This is my biggest complaint about wiitwd. Doms need to take responsibility for their actions after the session is done.

Like they say; "it's all fun and games until someone puts an eye out".

Thank you for saying that! I was getting tired of trying to ring the clue phone and having people fail to pick up.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 53

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 6:31:31 AM

LadyAnnabelleLee

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/21/2007
Status: offline

I've had a similiar occurence as your situation. A Miss I've been speaking with is into watersports, and up until I spoke with her I had no interest in it. Now the fetish is arousing. It's conditioning, and I don't quite know who told a user who explained it was conditioning that they were being... less than polite.

Anyone can be conditioned, whether they admit it or not.

(personal note: first post in years I believe)

_____________________________

It is the loud few that speak for the quiet many. ~Me

And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee.
~An excerpt from "Annabel Lee" by Edgar A

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 54

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 6:44:22 AM

TwoNYCDommes

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

If this is something that you actually crave, but can't admit, and she senses that, it is one thing. If it is not, hard limits are hard limits. To hell with her and tell her to go to hell and find another Domme.

There's a lot of daylight between something one craves (whether admitted or not) and a hard limit. I'd get bored rather quickly if my dominance was limited to encouraging people to do as they desire.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 55

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 6:56:58 AM

TwoNYCDommes

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1
the definition of bi is if you are a male, even if you are a Sir, and you enjoy having a man suck your cock.

I'm curious where you found that odd definition of bi.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 56

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 7:14:24 AM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

QE:

I've been thinking about your situation and came up with an "un-conditioning" solution. (and I'm serious here)
Place a rubber band around your cock and watch the said porn (or not).. snap it when you begin to get hard in situations you don't wish to be. Just a thought.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)

Post #: 57

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 7:31:39 AM

MistressMMM

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/19/2008
Status: offline

I don't know about other Dommes but I know that I personally tell all of the slaves that I consider that forced bi is part of My obedience training and if they don't like that then I'm not the right Domme for them. All of My boys know about it up front so I feel like they have no business complaining.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 58

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 10:39:49 AM

WiseCracknSadist

Posts: 163
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline

Why get twisted up because you were turned on by a guy? To it seems its all about your mindset. Perhaps this Domme saw something in you and unlocked it for you.

I know everyone is different, but let's look at this for a minute. You enjoy being punished and pushed around by a woman, which is fine, so why get hung up on a hard on for a dude at your gym?

Search yourself if you think it could be enjoyable under the right circumstances go for it. Keep it a secret if you have to. Pleasure is a good thing.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 59

RE: forced bi help??? - 2/16/2009 10:47:51 AM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMMM

I don't know about other Dommes but I know that I personally tell all of the slaves that I consider that forced bi is part of My obedience training and if they don't like that then I'm not the right Domme for them. All of My boys know about it up front so I feel like they have no business complaining.

Your key phrase here is "know UP FRONT".. maybe he wasn't affore informed and his domme just got wild hair to do this without the carry through thought as to repercussions. This is a good example to show the difference between someone who IS domme and those that just "play domme". And to wisecracksadist up there.. you may be comfortable sucking cock.. but it isn't for everyone.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to MistressMMM)

Post #: 60

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