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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/14/2009 12:06:00 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

Thanks for all your help. I do whip, paddle, spank, flog etc but I try to not leave the huge RAISED welts and permanent scars that some like. That's more what I was asking about.


I can understand having some initial squeamishness and concerns about marks or scars.  Even today, after over 20 years in D/S relationships, I still sometimes need some reassurance from a partner before I feel comfortable leaving a mark that will last more than a few minutes.

The thing that has gotten me "over it", over the years, is the joy that those marks can give to the right masochist.  In some cases, it is very true, a masochist wants the exchange of pain/pleasure/power to be a fleeting thing, and the meaning of the experience is contained within the moments that it is occuring, and perhaps the aftercare that comes after.  But in other cases, the welt, bruise, or wound greatly enhances the experience, and gives the power and pleasure of the exchange a very lingering presence.  The mark is worn as a token of love, of desire, of being possessed and taken--it is erotic, sentimental, perhaps even spiritual for some.

In any case, whether these things are vile and repugnant is very much in the eye of the beholder.  BDSM is extremely, extremely subjective for those participating in it.  That's why it is a good thing to get very deeply inside your partner's head, if you can--and when you can't get into someone else's head, it's best to reserve judgment as much as possible. 

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(in reply to LunaVenus)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/14/2009 7:49:56 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		On the first question - I refuse to label acts done by consenting adults as vile or repugnant. If what you wanted was hard limits perhaps leaving out those judgemental words would have been better.  I do things that others wouldn't do and there are things I have no desire to do. My kink doesn't have to be yours, but it doesn't require your judging it either.

You are right D/s does not require and BDSM activities. I would also point out there is nothing that requires you to use any physical punishment on your submissives and there are quite a few in D/s relationships that don't.  And as matter of fact despite being a Sadist I often don't use physical punishment for real transgressions my disappointment/displeasure is usually all that is needed.

Now as to what it is about being Sadist - it is a complete and total rush, a high beyond anything else, it is like a fire burning in my blood when it loosed. When I am looking into my partners eyes as he or she receives the pain I am inflicting there is a connection so deep it transends the rest of the world and nothing other than the 2 of exist in that moment..  There are so many things that take place - the vulnerbility, the trust, the moans, the shivers, the laying bare of ones soul, the ability to say fuck the norms and take total pleasure from what many don't understand, the animal like lust, the feel of the hot skin, the welts, or other marks as I run my fingers over them. The looking into eyes that are shimmering with tears and hear him whisper I love you at the same time, the taste of the tears as I kiss them away after after the scene, the feel of his/her body trembling against mine as sooth after a scene. It is everything all the sensations, emotions, and endorphins that are released during my play that bring me pleasure as a Sadist.

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 2:46:43 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDDom

(scat, guns, blood, needles, kids, animals)...



Of the above I only see 5 things related to BDSM. The k word when used as a hard limit always implies that some people into BDSM like this. This is never an acceptable word to use as a hard limit as it has absolutely nothing to do with BDSM and we should stop implying it does.




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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 10:33:07 AM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline 		I must admit, sometimes my sadistic thoughts and ponders do infact scare me at times.

Nothing is never too vile and repulsive in my personal view, however I feed on the fear mostly with whom I play with.

Limits are fine, however every indiviudual session/scene is different, and much depends on  the energy and headspace mainly.

I do have a thing for blood, it does excite me

Also, I find the ever mentioning kids and animals rather hilarious, as if that has ever been an option in my 9 years of BDSM. Never mentioned, enquired or suggested, boils down to common sense really. So to even mention the two, is pointless as kids and animals are just wrong, and in my view should not even be indentified as hard limits.

< Message edited by MistressRouge -- 2/15/2009 10:36:15 AM >

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 11:11:14 AM   
subinchico


Posts: 119
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline 		I bleed for my mistress, it's my offering to her, I like variety in sexuality (I care NOT that its vile and repugnant to folks).  Her comments include "its fun",  "I realese my anger", "the scars are my artwork", "you're showing devotion".
LOVE is nonsensical, unnecessary, not considering in my mind during bdsm play.  I love my few years on this Earth with humanity!  I hope you do too!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.


To answer my own question.... number one at least, I find most acts in BDSM utterly vile and repugnant. If not they are totally nonsensical at best. Eating shit, drinking urination, inserting pins and needles through body parts just to see what happens, desiring welts on the body from whipping or desiring to give them for that matter, torture in any aspect, cries of agony. As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.

I would love to hear from others. I may check back eventually.


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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 12:04:16 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		The most vile, repugnant, reprehensible and heinous 'thing' I have ever seen or known of was subjecting children to any BDSM activity or any form of abuse.  That includes allowing children to be aware of, by word, or deed, or any concept of exposure to any aspect of WIITWD.

'For whoever should cause the least of these little ones to stumble', ...read the biblical text.

The activities you mention in your OP are inconsequential by comparison when they are between consensual adults.

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 2/15/2009 12:05:23 PM >

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 12:38:59 PM   
GrizzlyBear


Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.



The most Vile and Repugnant thing in BDSM to me, is the need of some to decide that what they do is the One True Way of BDSM and that what others do is Vile and Repugnant.


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They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 2:32:25 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

The most vile, repugnant, reprehensible and heinous 'thing' I have ever seen or known of was subjecting children to any BDSM activity or any form of abuse.  That includes allowing children to be aware of, by word, or deed, or any concept of exposure to any aspect of WIITWD.

'For whoever should cause the least of these little ones to stumble', ...read the biblical text.

The activities you mention in your OP are inconsequential by comparison when they are between consensual adults.

TM


BDSM is amongst consensual adults. If its not then its something totally different but it is not BDSM
Don't you see that the whole point about BDSM is its fucking CONSENSUAL.


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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 2:34:51 PM   
allthatjaz


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Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRouge

I must admit, sometimes my sadistic thoughts and ponders do infact scare me at times.

Nothing is never too vile and repulsive in my personal view, however I feed on the fear mostly with whom I play with.

Limits are fine, however every indiviudual session/scene is different, and much depends on  the energy and headspace mainly.

I do have a thing for blood, it does excite me

Also, I find the ever mentioning kids and animals rather hilarious, as if that has ever been an option in my 9 years of BDSM. Never mentioned, enquired or suggested, boils down to common sense really. So to even mention the two, is pointless as kids and animals are just wrong, and in my view should not even be indentified as hard limits.


You and me must really double up sometime


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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 7:39:11 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		When I was in my early twenties, I used to say " Gays.  I don't mind them, but I wish they wouldn't go around telling me what they do in bed".  (Of course, gays didn't go around saying what they did in bed.  But that's by the way. )

Maybe I was stoned one night - I can't remember.  But at some point, some time ago, I thought, "Gays in bed.  I don't like to think of that.  But my own parents in bed, screwing each other?  No, no, no!  Unthinkable, disgusting!"

Truth to tell:  anything that anyone else has mentioned that they like to do when boffing, however unpalatable to me - my parents bonking: that's worse, by far.  Everything's tolerable to me nowadays except that.  I've concluded that most sexual practices are OK by me - but not one's parents porking each other.  No.  Mum and Dad squelching - there should be laws against it.

Jeez, but it gets worse. My parents bonking vanilla style is one thing - but my parents playing D/s games?  My Mum thwacking my Dad with a paddle or taking him up the khyber with a strap-on?  No, I'm not going to go there.

All of which ramblings are simply to say:  there's a certain question of proportion involved when it comes to thinking about one's likes and dislikes in sexual practises in general.  If both parties like it: what the hell.

Phuckitt.  Just "have fun", is what the excellent Malloves69 says, and what I say too. 



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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 8:14:33 PM   
TranceTara


Posts: 152
Joined: 12/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

LunaVenus
As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.


As others have said, being a masochist or sadist has nothing to do with D/s or M/s. As for why, as a masochist, I enjoy the pain given out by One I treasure, I have no idea. It's how I am wired.

For me, it is the utlimate gift to have One who can gather the strength and courage to do what most in the collective consciousness of 'normal' society would judge in a negative tone. That does not mean I like pain willy nilly. I procrastinate when it's time to see the dentist. It's a different dymanic. With One I feel submissive to, the pain I receive is a sacred bonding between us. I cannot explain it any other way.

As for marks and blood, some hate them, some love them. For me, it was a way to have something to 'take home' with me; a reminder of the transcendent experience.

If you wish to read up on some psychology, I found Lyn Cowan's Masochism: A Jungian View a very interesting read. I could relate to the flagellates and such, for many times I wanted to feel 'purged' during a scene. It was not a punishment in any way, but more of a cleansing. I can only speak for myself. *And* for me, the worst punishment is knowing I have offended and having attention withheld. That would be torture for me. It's all a matter of point of view.

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 8:49:41 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.



For item #1 - My hard limits - I only share that with my friends
For item #2:
While I do not consider myself a masochist, many looking from the outside in may consider me a masochist in certain forms of play. Yes there are some forms of torture I do enjoy immensely. So what form of torture do I enjoy? Combining bondage, erotic tease & denial, cbt, whipping, paddles etc. Let me set the scene. My wrists are shackled and spread via a bar over my head. My legs spread and fastened to a spreadbar on the floor. I am naked. I am teased/tormented/tortured erotically. She uses Cat-o-nine tails, floggers, cbt, plugs, clamps, hot wax, paddles, canes and many other items to wear down my body. Now this is not just impact play. She combines erotic teasing, caressing and care with the mix. A sweet wisper in the ear. A light touch of her hand caressing my face. This does not last for an hour. It goes on for hours. Slowly breaking my mind and body down. Taking me to a point where I literally cannot tell the difference between pain or pleasure. Did she just hit me hard and leave a mark or did she touch me softly. Which one was it? Taking it to the point where my body can no longer take the stress and I collapse from exhaustion. At this point I am hers totally.

Now as to my mind set:
I am a large person and fairly strong. I do not crave pain but I do have an extreme high tolerance for pain for reason's not related to BDSM. Anyone can beat another person to a point where there body can no longer take the pain. It takes a talented Domme to wear down the body and the mind equally. And while I can willing serve and submit to a Domme there is that part that says my body is strong and no one can make me submit if I choose not to. My mind is saying give in and my body is saying stand strong. This style of play also requires a Domme who truely enjoys doing this to a sub. There is a power exchange that happens. I am helpess. I want to feel the touch of my Domme. I want to make her happy. The slow alternation of pain and then pleasure wears me down over time. My mind gets confused and cannot distingush which is which. My body strains to keep control but eventually my body yields. At that instant, I experience a Eurphoria that I find hard to explain. The body collapses from exhaustion and the mind releases a flood of emotion. It is if time almost ceases to exist. It is a very unique feeling and one I want to repeat.

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/15/2009 11:46:18 PM   
TranceTara


Posts: 152
Joined: 12/22/2008
Status: offline 		Here are some of the notes I took from Masochism: A Jungian View, by Lyn Cowan. Also, I have pasted from a mac so if there are weird symbols pc users are viewing that I cannot see, my apologies.

I went though a period of finding meaning for my masochism and got drawn to books by Viktor Frankl as well as books about Bodhichitta. Then I came across Lyn Cowan's book and I learned, each experience will be different for every individual. The meaning can vary from extremely spiritual to total entertainment and anything in between and combinations of things. None is better than, right or wrong. They just are.

Blessings,
TT


p.109
“Masochism is one of the soul’s ways of restoring value to what has been devalued. Its persistence through time, its compulsive and pleasure-yielding nature, its demand for and love of the aesthetic in sexuality, its search for religious essence, its inherent sense of pathology and deviance--indeed, its extremity in all these aspects--all bear witness to its value. yet today, the devaluation of masochistic qualities is so severe that psychiatry actually considers an addiction to suffering more perverse than an addiction to legally prescribed drugs intended to relieve suffering. In our age, which regards nearly all suffering as a disease or a moral failure, masochism is a statement of the soul’s need and desire for suffering.”

p.114 “Masochism is not so much a state of weakness as of receptivity and throbbing sensitivity. It opens us to ourselves and to the outside world. Masochism is the indispensable condition of submitting fully to an experience, encompassing realms of sex, religion, relationship and death. It brings an arousal, an awakening, throws an odd twist into ‘ordinary’ or ‘normal’ experience. Masochism may become, with careful attention and radical curiosity, an encounter with the inevitability of one’s essential character--which, as Heraclitus tells us, is Fate.”


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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/18/2009 5:05:15 PM   
dobycha


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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/18/2009 6:48:26 PM   
MissDaisy6767


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/8/2009
Status: offline 		The most vile and repugnant thing I can think of that I would NEVER do is anything related to POOP.

As for sadism relating to masochism, for a couple or other type of relationship in which S/m is in place, there is a special connection and unique chemistry. Some consider it to be a special way to love someone.
Consider this.. that in this type of relationship, the masochist is there for a reason, the Sadist is there for a reason... they are there for what the other can give/provide.

To provide pain is to provide pleasure. It makes Me feel good to know I can provide what the bottom/sub/slave needs. Of course, I take My time doing it which can be frustrating for the one on the receiving end.. but then, I am the Mistress!

There are always elements of control and power that a Sadist thrives on.. just as there is a dark, edgy energy that a Sadist thrives on... it can put a Sadist in a lovely Top space, similar to subspace... its wickedly delicious, gets the blood flowing.. its as if there is a special electricity pulsating through one's veins...

Just My two cents worth!

Regards,
MD

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/19/2009 9:20:37 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Vile and repugnant? How about these?

The straight guy who meant to firebomb the flat of his former gay lover to 'keep him quiet' but who instead set fire to the flat below putting two 80-something year old pensioners in hospital with moderate to severe burns?

The minicab driver who raped a woman after she apparently had a kinky sex session with her boyfriend?

The teens who set fire to the cat of the UM of a lesbian?

The mother of an adult son who bought him packets of paracetamol to top himself after he confessed to her that he was gay and having a relationship with another man?

All this from the past month in one London borough.

No need to look at BDSM for that which is vile and repugnant. Examples of human nature are quite sufficient.

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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/19/2009 10:00:48 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.


To answer my own question.... number one at least, I find most acts in BDSM utterly vile and repugnant. If not they are totally nonsensical at best. Eating shit, drinking urination, inserting pins and needles through body parts just to see what happens, desiring welts on the body from whipping or desiring to give them for that matter, torture in any aspect, cries of agony. As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.

I would love to hear from others. I may check back eventually.


Ok ... wow.

Firstly and most importantly everybody's view on a given form of play will be totally subjective. What is vile and repugnant to you will be wildly hot for the person next to you. Embracing that "different strokes for different folks; but respect for everyone that consents" is something I always try to do. I will admit your OP rubs me the wrong way, strongly, but I will answer the questions.

1) What could I never see myself doing? basically the only play I wouldn't ever under any circumstances engage in ... is non-consensual. That covers children (they cannot legally consent) it covers animals .. it covers dead people. There is nothing else in the range of play I am aware of that I would 100% never ever do under any circumstance. Some of it is pretty unlikely, but then I'm a twisted fuck so it'll probably happen at some stage.

Before answering, I must say this. You make a couple of totally erroneous assumptions about the "psychology" of sadists and masochists and secondly that all play between them is torturous. As I write this I am currently engaged in sadomasochistic play. I am in no pain, I am fully clothed and the sadist in question is sitting at the other end of the table. We aren't touching each other and in fact for the last 48 hours nothing even remotely sexual has past between us. my masochistic headspace is most definately active however. Not all sadomasochistic play is torture. I cannot speak for sadists (i'm not one) but as a masochist just because I do like the heavy edgy stuff doesn't mean that is all I like. Masochists like, in some way, to suffer ... but there is a whole world, a whole scale of suffering that comes before re-enacting scenes from Hostel on a friday night.

2) I have a need (pyschological, physical, emotional) to suffer. It is not my only need, I also need to be loved and cherished. I can be perfectly sexually satisfied with a vanilla fuck. But something else gets satisfied when I am left broken, sobbing, frightened and shaking on the floor. A good match for me is someone who has a flip side of that need, who needs to break and frighten ... because when two people share that need have that energy flowing between them then something really amazing connects them. Positive and healthy sadomasochistic relationships dont just break down, they build up again. This is something that most people miss, or refuse to acknowledge. I might get broken into a thousand tiny pieces, but I will also get built up again. Sadists get to do that breaking, and that building. It is incredibly loving and intimate and powerful in a way you can't really understand until you experience it.

It might look nasty and vile and repugnant to you, but that couple you see where one is ripping the other to pieces, torturing them. That couple are making love to each other, just in a way you cannot understand. It really is making love, but from the outside looking in I can understand it would look like anything but.

Trust me ... between a sadist and a masochist who love each other .. "torture" as you think of it *is* love.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/19/2009 10:01:52 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I think confusing those situations in BDSM to the hideous things that some people chose to do to each other out of hatred is a mistake.  Just My personal opinion.




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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/19/2009 10:38:18 AM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

For item #2:
While I do not consider myself a masochist, many looking from the outside in may consider me a masochist in certain forms of play. Yes there are some forms of torture I do enjoy immensely. So what form of torture do I enjoy? Combining bondage, erotic tease & denial, cbt, whipping, paddles etc. Let me set the scene. My wrists are shackled and spread via a bar over my head. My legs spread and fastened to a spreadbar on the floor. I am naked. I am teased/tormented/tortured erotically. She uses Cat-o-nine tails, floggers, cbt, plugs, clamps, hot wax, paddles, canes and many other items to wear down my body. Now this is not just impact play. She combines erotic teasing, caressing and care with the mix. A sweet wisper in the ear. A light touch of her hand caressing my face. This does not last for an hour. It goes on for hours. Slowly breaking my mind and body down. Taking me to a point where I literally cannot tell the difference between pain or pleasure. Did she just hit me hard and leave a mark or did she touch me softly. Which one was it? Taking it to the point where my body can no longer take the stress and I collapse from exhaustion. At this point I am hers totally....


Dayum.. did it suddenly get hawt in here?  ::fanning self::  My concentration is now ruined. (Mummy - you bad, bad boy!)

I consider that which is described above to be sensual sadism and perhaps not descriptive of what purists refer to as sadism. I could be wrong - I'm sure someone will tell me if I am .  Was sadism v. sensual sadism factored in the original question or was this a casualty of painting with a broad brush?

< Message edited by MsFlutter -- 2/19/2009 11:23:32 AM >

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(in reply to mummyman321)
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RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant - 2/19/2009 11:13:30 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Masochism: A Jungian View, by Lyn Cowan.
 
I've got that.  Haven't read it for years, mind you.  I do remembering it being marred a little by the usual Jungian tendency to make things a bit too flowery and mytho-magical for my taste - but it's a good, insightful book, nonetheless. 

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(in reply to TranceTara)
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