Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

non-consensual enslavment...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> non-consensual enslavment... Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 7:08:48 AM   
jayeyre1980


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline 		i have had my own views on being a slave, and i was recently selected by a Domme Who shares these same ideas. By non-consensual enslavement, i really do mean W/we both know there is no end to it. The possibilites of  a living will saying She gets everything, power-of-attourney signed over to Her, possible common law marriage for the means of a  prenuptual agreement saying also, She gets everything (this all being so that in the eyes of U.S. law She really would Own me). Only hard limits being that anything outside of hospitalization and death is not a limit, those sort of things, and Her seeming to be the type to really be able to do this. i am honestly enthralled by Her. i have been waiting patiently for a potential Owner to have these same ideas that i have. Does anyone out there have any advice or true expierence in this subject matter? And if yes, what do you really think about it.?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 7:28:21 AM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline 		jayeyre,

I don't believe that you can truly draft sufficient legal documentation to remove consent.   In the end, you are still consenting.  People make commitments all of the time.  If you are trying to find a legal way to force you to commit or submit, then I suspect that you really don't want to take responsibility for your actions.  If the drafting of documents heightens your emotions in the scene, that's great.  If you want her to take responsibility for your actions, I smell trouble brewing.  Just my opinion.  Good luck to you.

yours


_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 7:30:10 AM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		It's a common fantasy with the men I have talked with and I have wasted a lot of time explaining to them that it does not work that way. No one can really own you in the way what you are talking it's illegal no matter what papers you have signed. What is to keep you from leaving nothing when you do the shopping, etc, you can always change the POA etc once you are gone. Whats to stop her from not wanting you anymore nothing, and you can bet you will be out the door. Really that's not the way it works, it's a sounds exciting in your mind but to carry off anything close to this she would have to leave you in very unsafe conditions chained up while no one was around. Not good to have something happen, and have the police, fire, etc find you tied up when she is not there.

Mike

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 8:11:15 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		If She has to go through all that paperwork just to try to secure your loyalty, well i guess that shows where your loyalty really is. Your wallet for one.

I don't mean to sound mean about this, the immense mental and emotional impact of drafting a contract with rules and responsibilities and duties is amazing. Is it legal or does it mean anything to anyone outside of the two of you? not really except to be used again one or both of you in some really ways in court.

By all means write out things, and a medical power of attorney can be a really good idea if you are going to do any BDSM stuff. You may or may not be conscious when you hit the ER and having her be able to make medical choices, rather than having the state or waiting for next of kin, could be great for you both, or it could be stupid.

She can't own you unless you marry her, divorce her and get a crappy lawyer and she gets a great one (THIS IS A JOKE ABOUT THE POWER OF ALIMONY) 


_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to SirMIkeSD)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 8:24:02 AM   
jayeyre1980


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline 		Okay...Maybe i worded my question wrong. i have the want for this already, and She has never actually said She was going to go that route (as far as legal stuff goes) with this, it just seems as if She might, which is fine. But with me, i know leagally it is difficult, but, i have been a live-in before, and was going WAY down the wrong path with drugs and the law, and during the time i was Owned, i cleaned up, got my life back on track, and have since been a responsible adult, so i feel as if i know the value of being owned. i owe my former Owner my life (side note, She dismissed me due to Her battle with cancer, and didn't want me to go through that with Her after knowing myu mom died of the same thing). Now, i am possibly going to be Owned again, and with knowing what way i was, and the way i am now, i feel as if this is a need and a purpose for me, so the loyalty from my end of things is going to be there even if there isn't any contracts or legallities envolved. i think what i was trying to ask is just how far have non consensual slaves, or, slave Owners that have a non consensual slave gone with this sort of thing?

< Message edited by jayeyre1980 -- 2/13/2009 8:25:49 AM >

(in reply to feydeplume)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 8:33:35 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		Ah that is a very different topic from the wording "just how far have non consensual slaves, or, slave Owners that have a non consensual slave gone with this sort of thing?" means something totally different to my eyes at least.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 8:38:10 AM   
jayeyre1980


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline 		Yes. i should have paid closer attention to detail the firt time i posted...i was meaning how far could things go, mentally, physically, and emotionally, from both tho Dominant and submissive sides of things.

(in reply to feydeplume)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 8:49:42 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Yes. i should have paid closer attention to detail the firt time i posted...i was meaning how far could things go, mentally, physically, and emotionally, from both tho Dominant and submissive sides of things.


It can go as far as you both are willing and wanting to take it. The methods you use along the way though require responsibility for them and ownership of any outcomes of such.

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 9:05:00 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR

I am a bit confused by the non-consensual bit. It can't be non-consensual if you are both agreed that she is going to own you.

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 9:08:47 AM   
cbtok


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		In Western society, you cannot enslave anyone. Period.

If you sign a contract, somewhere in that contract it will say: This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of [State, Province or region] and of the [Country].

I have seen contracts written in France, Italy, Spain, Mexico, Canada and the United States. They all have that as a part of the contract.

Thus, for example, you and I cannot contractually obligate each other to rob a bank because bank robbery is not legal. Now, we can draw up such a contract and we can both sign it, but the contract is unenforceable in any court because it violates the laws in that court's jurisdiction.

I'm not a lawyer but I have lawyer friends who would all tell you the same thing.

Now, what the two of you can do is to sign a letter of agreement. And your Owner can be the sole enforcer of that letter of agreement as long as you continue to allow your Owner that enforcement. And there are means of manipulation and coercion that can make it next to impossible to (without resorting to legal remedy) escape from your letter of agreement. But nothing may really be done without your consent.

Your Owner may exercise power of attorney and may take all of your assets. But, unless the two of you are married, I'm fairly sure the taxing authority you live under will wish to tax that transfer of assets, unless small amounts under legal limitations are transferred over time. In other words, you can sign over title to your new Porsche to me but, where I live, I shall have to pay income tax on the gift unless we are legally married.

I would like to tell you that, barring these realities, I empathize with your desires. You wish to submit and transition that submission beyond consent. I would suggest that you partner with your prospective Owner and do "test runs," where you agree to consent to anything your Owner desires for a period of time. A weekend is a good start. Then gradually work up to longer and longer periods where you have no safeword, you agree that neither of you will back out. You agree that your Owner will take more and more responsibility for all of your actions, approaching totality. I would imagine that, after a few years, you will both achieve your dreams.

And I recommend marriage. Taxes and the law treat married couples as one person. If one of the two handles all ownership, buying, selling and so on, the law doesn't care. If both do equally, the law doesn't care about that, either. And, if your marriage includes a relationship free of any sexual satisfaction on your part with your Owner seeing whomever pleases, that works as well, until such a time comes when your Owner wants to marry someone other than you. And then, it is at that point where you may be encouraged to "sign your life away." After five years (usually) of marriage, that is usually possible without a judge raising an eyebrow about the inequity of property distribution, especially where one party says, and the other agrees, that the couple could not have amassed that property without the efforts of one and that the other did not significantly add to the wealth of the couple.


_____________________________

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 9:16:00 AM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		I don't think I'd ever want this, for myself or anyone else. Things change way too much in life and the last thing that should happen is that someone is left broken and penniless if worse comes to worse. Also sounds like way too much hassle.

(in reply to cbtok)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 9:22:34 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		In my opinion, the ownership (enslavement) thing is something you can experience as your relationship dynamic for as long as two people are willing to participate in it.  

If you give her  "power of attorney" and your belongings etc, it might have the desired effect on your relationship that you are each looking for, but that's not going to make you "master and owned slave" in the eyes of society or the law.  

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 9:31:48 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

In Western society, you cannot enslave anyone. Period.


This is somewhat an interesting aspect to me. I have to disagree with the "you can not enslave anyone" portion unless you include knowingly against their will.

There are a good many ways to look at "enslavement" . It can be done and is often thought to be occurring by a good many people through obscure and deceptive methods..appearing legal on one hand though in reality perhaps not. The working class itself falls into such a debate. You don't work..you are punished by not getting x,y,z. You work for productivity reasons, and you get that pat on the head, and just enough incentive to keep you working because to not work would cause more hardship on you.

Methods sound alittle familiar?

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to cbtok)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 10:55:39 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I dunno..sounds like a typical marriage to me but then I seem to have a different view from most on marriage.

When I was married I had power of attorney over him, I picked up his paychecks, paid the bills, we had wills drawn up where whoever died left everything to the other, everything was basically in my name, etc... all part and parcel of being a military wife and family.

Imo what's the difference?

And it's not non-consensual. You're agreeing to it.

Oh..and in most states now common law no longer exists. You might wanna check into that whereever you live.


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 11:14:13 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		You could draft several types of legal documents which would make a sub a financial slave legally to the female. For example, youi could go to a casino and sign a promissory note witnessed by people, which says you lost big, and she won big, and she had loaned you $100,000, and you agreed to repay that by giving her all your money until  it was repaid, and agreeing that she'll provide you with room and board so long as you do her domestic chores and whatever else she wants at her home, and you could give her a mortgage on your house, etc, to make it more enforceable.A court would enforce that. You could always leave, but if so, she could  sue you, garnish your wages, foreclose on your home, etc, but you could file bankruptcy if you wished.

You could even agree that  you had assaulted her, and you are setting her claim against you for $25,000 or whatever, and have the same provisions as above, except this would be nondischargeable in bankruptcy, since it was an intentional act, and you'd agree to that in the agreement.

You could also, if you were going to marry, transfer all your assets to her, and then  enter into a prenuptial agreement that in the case of a divorce, each party keeps whatever assets (s)he owns at the time of the marriage, and will keep all assets in his or her name at the time of a divorce. Then if the husband has no bank accounts, but deposits all his income into her accounts, and she keeps all vehicles and real estate in her name during the marriage, he would have nothing in the case of a divorce, so would be very motivated to obey her and stay married. Tax implications only arise if the property is very valuable, and you could have an agreement which states that any property transferred to the other spouse during the marriage becomes that person's separate property, since there are no tax implicatons for gifts to a spouse. You could even state that in the case of a husband seeking a divorce, he will pay her spousal support of x amount for x years, but a court wouldn't enforce that if it was unreasonable, considering the incomes of the parties at the time of the divorce, and the duration of the marriage, depending on the law in that state.

There are many ways to achieve true financial slavery, which is as close as you can get to actual slavery, since money is freedom, and a slave would have a much better life as her slave than if he was destitute, so would be motivated to remain her slave, even if he'd prefer not to, but I can't imagine anyone doing this  unless they had been with a woman for  years, and was pretty certain it would be a permanent relationship. I also find the idea very exciting, and entered into an agreement with a femele friend which said I owed her $1000, but would do her laundry and her nails and give her foot massages for a period of time, and obey her during that period, and I found it extremely exciting. Too exciting, frankly. The power of submissive pleasure has probably allowed women to strip lots of subs of their assets in some cases. You'd need to be very careful about that kind of thing, and masturbate before you ever signed any agreement, so it wasn't executed in the heights of sexual submissive pleasure, which can be overwheming.

I read an article on a FLR site where a female doctor wanted her husband to be a househusband, and she prepared a letter of resignation for him to resign from his job, and got him turned on in bed, and excited by his submissive desires, and he signed it, and she mailed it in, and she really felt empowered that she had forced him to be her stay at home househusband, so she could have kids without worrying about day care, since he'd raise them and be her househusband forever.

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 11:23:02 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tavane


I read an article on a FLR site where a female doctor wanted her husband to be a househusband, and she prepared a letter of resignation for him to resign from his job, and got him turned on in bed, and excited by his submissive desires, and he signed it, and she mailed it in, and she really felt empowered that she had forced him to be her stay at home househusband, so she could have kids without worrying about day care, since he'd raise them and be her househusband forever.



Oh no come on...you know that is just fantasy BS.  It might make you excited, but seriously.  Anyone who makes a good living could send in a letter of resignation and either have their job back on Monday (if they are good) or have another job; granted, in this bad economy it might be scary, but most people who are employed and resign suddenly, without warning, and are good, get an employer that says "are you sure about that?" -- some even make a counter offer.  Where is the part in this story where the company comes back and double's the guys salary and he dumps the controlling wife for a younger model? :)

Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 11:24:07 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jayeyre1980

i have had my own views on being a slave, and i was recently selected by a Domme Who shares these same ideas. By non-consensual enslavement, i really do mean W/we both know there is no end to it. The possibilites of  a living will saying She gets everything, power-of-attourney signed over to Her, possible common law marriage for the means of a  prenuptual agreement saying also, She gets everything (this all being so that in the eyes of U.S. law She really would Own me). Only hard limits being that anything outside of hospitalization and death is not a limit, those sort of things, and Her seeming to be the type to really be able to do this. i am honestly enthralled by Her. i have been waiting patiently for a potential Owner to have these same ideas that i have. Does anyone out there have any advice or true expierence in this subject matter? And if yes, what do you really think about it.?


The real question is how well do you know this person in real life and how long have you been dating. It's exciting to think about, but too many subs are thinking about this kind of thing when they should be thinking about what she wants for Valentine's Day, and how she likes to be kissed. Have you met her yet? How long have you been intimate?

Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to jayeyre1980)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 11:43:10 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I found this letter from the doctor to be realstic. The guy was submissive, and had showed her the FLR site. She saw it as a way to have what she wanted, and he didn't have a good job, and she made so much money that it seemed perfect for her. It wasn't financial slavery, since her income and all the assets were marital assets, in the event of a divorce. She wanted a househusband, to  be the homemaker and main child caretaker, and if the guy was a service submsisive, like me,  he would really get pleasure from that role; and she noted that he got so turned on by submssion that she felt she could make him do anything she wanted. It's really not a bizarre lifestyle; simply a role reversal from what is traditional. Frankly, if one spouse makes that kind of money, it would be far more rational for the other spouse to be the homemaker, especially if you have children, so they have a parent to raise them. We don't denigrate female spouses of doctors for not working, so shouldn't do it to male spouses. In most marriages, both people need to work, but if one spouse makes lots of money, it's better for both of them if one is the homemaker. That's not a hard job, and the workng spouse gets home-cooked meals, doesn't have to deal with housework, laundry, etc, and it's especially beneficial for the children, if you have kids; rather than being stuck in day care. I don't know if the letter was real, but it wasn't bizarre, and I saw nothing irrational with that kind of choice or lifestyle.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 11:54:33 AM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Another reason I accepted it was becasue I had entered into a slavery agreement while really turned on, and this wasn't a sex partner, just a long term female friend. $1000 wasn't much money, but it was incredibly exciting to sign a document, and know that I had agreed to obey her for that period of time, and I'd be doing her laundry and stuff. It was scary how exciting it was, and it's probably good that I never found a dom who wanted a service submissive. In her case, if he had second thoughts, she just needed to get hum excited, and he'd capitulate. You are really a slave to your erotic desires, and they can be overpowering. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: non-consensual enslavment... - 2/13/2009 12:10:47 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		What I wish I had done, and would be fun, especially in a vanilla relationship where you want your girlfriend to try being a mistess, is to simply have a bet that whoever loses, is the other person's slave for 30 days. Then make the bet so that you can't possibly win, such as she wins if you can't flip a coin and it comes up heads 10 times in a row. Then you can be open about it, being her slave even in front of friends, and actually see what it's like, and what she does, if anything. Most women won't do much, but some might have fun with it, and at least there wont' be any arguments, since she'll always get her way, and the slave can expeience what that's like, being required to obey his girlfriend whether he wants to or not. If she likes it, that could lead to a FLR, and at least the sub would have been an actual slave for 30 days of his life. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> non-consensual enslavment... Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094