Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Trust


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> Trust Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Trust - 2/15/2009 11:40:13 AM   
FaithBlue


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline 		Sir and I were planning an evening together yesterday, via IM.  We were discussing safewords and trust, and he started teasing me about "what are safe words? seems to me they give you a lot of room to pussy out if you feel you're dealing with too much..." and so on. I said, "if there are no safewords, I may have to re-think this," meaning in general terms, that subs need safewords. I can't be putting myself into someone's hands who will do whatever they want for as long as they want without consideration for the other person's limits. I know this is the extremely obvious.

Then, Sir  said "No trust." and went offline. I cleaned my apartment quite thoroughly, working out a lot of frustrations. In the midst of mopping the kitchen floor, I had a realization that my trust issues happened once before, after my first divorce. (I've recently gotten divorced again.) I had trouble trusting my second husband once we got together. And this is happening again.
So, I was alone last night. I'm being allowed to think about my trust issues. I just need some feedback as to if, once again, I did the wrong thing.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 11:42:29 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FaithBlue

Sir and I were planning an evening together yesterday, via IM.  We were discussing safewords and trust, and he started teasing me about "what are safe words? seems to me they give you a lot of room to pussy out if you feel you're dealing with too much..." and so on. I said, "if there are no safewords, I may have to re-think this," meaning in general terms, that subs need safewords. I can't be putting myself into someone's hands who will do whatever they want for as long as they want without consideration for the other person's limits. I know this is the extremely obvious.

Then, Sir  said "No trust." and went offline. I cleaned my apartment quite thoroughly, working out a lot of frustrations. In the midst of mopping the kitchen floor, I had a realization that my trust issues happened once before, after my first divorce. (I've recently gotten divorced again.) I had trouble trusting my second husband once we got together. And this is happening again.
So, I was alone last night. I'm being allowed to think about my trust issues. I just need some feedback as to if, once again, I did the wrong thing.


Before I say anything, I need to ask

HOw long have you known each other and have you met face to face before?

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 11:44:01 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Safe words have nothing to do with trust.  Unfortunately, most people pretend that they do.

Safe word means "Somethings wrong, need to check in NOW"  He is a master, not an omniscient, omnipresent being.  Cramps don't care about trust.  Migraines don't care about trust.  A slipped rope doesn't care about trust.

But they happen, and they can happen 10 years into a relationship just as much as they can 10 days into a relationship.

Now, many relationships do NOT use safewords.  Again, nothing to do with trust.  Simply because they prefer direct communication.  I'd prefer someone to say "Rope! Leg!" rather than safeword and THEN tell me "Rope! Leg!"

This is something you both need to work out together.  Does he really believe that you would deliberately try to sabotage a scene together?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 11:47:06 AM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hi FaithBlue
Trust is something that doesnt happen at a snap of a finger. You did not indicate how long you two been in a relationship, if you were RT etc, so I do not have a lot to go with here. Has then been an issue for a long time in your relationship.

Sir knew I had some serious issues of past abuse and he would not push the no safe word with me, which i am happy about. He was looking more out for me, then the issue of a safe word.

Perhaps take a step back and review this relationship. Please do know trust is earned and not an instant pill to take.

blessings
oceanwynds

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 11:47:17 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		How long have you known him?  Have you met him in real time or is this online?
 
What exactly has he done to build your trust in him? 
And how much trust in you is he exhibiting if he thinks you might mis-use a safe word?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 12:10:38 PM   
Demspotis


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP - Based on what you described: no, you did nothing wrong. He abruptly left in the middle of an important discussion. While not everyone uses safewords, having a discussion about them and other safety issues is perfectly normal, and appropriate, before getting together. If you have "trust issues", a good dom should try to help you with them; shutting down a conversation when you're trying to discuss those things is not helpful.

Furthermore, arranging safewords is actually a sign of trust. It means that the submissive trusts the dominant to pay attention, and react appropriately (ie, stop, and find out what the problem is) if a safeword is used.

And on the other hand, the arrangement of safewords is a protection for the dominant or top too: the basic point of a safeword is so that the submissive or bottom can say things like "no","stop", "mercy", as part of a role-playing, without actually meaning that they want the playing to be interrupted. The safeword, then, is what keeps it consensual, and therefore legal (assuming it to be otherwise legal, too), if that kind of role-play is involved.

Best wishes,
~Demspotis


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 12:11:33 PM   
WoodenPaddle


Posts: 154
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Safe words have nothing to do with trust.  Unfortunately, most people pretend that they do.

Safe word means "Somethings wrong, need to check in NOW"  He is a master, not an omniscient, omnipresent being.  Cramps don't care about trust.  Migraines don't care about trust.  A slipped rope doesn't care about trust.

But they happen, and they can happen 10 years into a relationship just as much as they can 10 days into a relationship.

Now, many relationships do NOT use safewords.  Again, nothing to do with trust.  Simply because they prefer direct communication.  I'd prefer someone to say "Rope! Leg!" rather than safeword and THEN tell me "Rope! Leg!"

This is something you both need to work out together.  Does he really believe that you would deliberately try to sabotage a scene together?


I agree. Safewords are not the same as trust. Like LuckyAlbatross already mentioned, Doms still are humans and not some kind of omnipotent mindreaders...*grins*...even though at times we like act like it.
Things may happen during a scene. Things unplanned, even things one cannot possibly foresee. So a sub needs to be able to let the Dom know something is wrong so he can act on it.
Safewords as a measure of trust? So let's say you play with someone you never played with before. The sub gets tied up and things get to be harder than she expected and she uses her safeword to end the scene. What makes one so sure that stranger WILL actually stop at that? And what would she do if he didn't? I have seen the consequenses of something like that far too often.
Trust is not the same as a safeword. Safewords do not offer any guarantees, it all comes down to trust. Trust that your partner will keep it sane, safe and concensual and will honor the safewords when they are used.

LuckyAlbatross may prefer the direct communication, I on the other hand prefer the safewords. That's a personal choice though and quite unrelated to the subject.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 12:16:31 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Its times like this I just shake My head-- So many Dominants think because they proclaim to be such, that submissives are to see them as omnipotent--never question, never wonder, never think and when subs do--the D's cop an attitude---here is where I yell: "busted asshole!"---
 
Like LA said, safewords if used are for things like stop stop, rope, burning,--trust allows you to feel safe to even enter into that scenario to begin with--when a D negates the need for safewords  and equates it with a lack of trust, I'd expect any sub to feel the smack of the redflag.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 12:18:29 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Safe words have nothing to do with trust.  Unfortunately, most people pretend that they do.

Safe word means "Somethings wrong, need to check in NOW"  He is a master, not an omniscient, omnipresent being.  Cramps don't care about trust.  Migraines don't care about trust.  A slipped rope doesn't care about trust.



I agree. Safewords are about communicating not trust. So if someone tells me that they are the same then I probably won't be playing with them because they do not know what they are talking about.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 1:02:29 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		From your recounting of the conversation I'd be VERY bothered by him *flouncing off in a huff*, not by his views on safewords.

Whether you use them or whether you don't is an individual thing, but going offline half-cocked with a silly parting shot of * No trust* without any interested discussion on your thoughts is childish and petulant.

agirl



(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 2:41:33 PM   
FaithBlue


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline 		We've been together 6 months. We both have children at home, so our RTs together are far between. 

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 2:47:45 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Do you believe he would pass your limits if you didn't have a safe word?  Do you think he would refuse to slow down if you said, "This is too much, please wait"?  Do you think he would continue if you said, "Lawsuit," or "Police"?  I've used a safe word system maybe twice in 20 years.  The important thing is communication, not protocol.

Edited to add: several of those 20 years were with nilla partners, doing sorta-kinky stuff when I could talk her into it.  And we had no real notion of safe words or anything like that.  But we understood that keeping one another safe was more important than getting off.  Safe words are more important when scening with someone you barely know, and whose body language you may not be able to read.


< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 2/15/2009 2:53:39 PM >

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 3:00:26 PM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Demspotis
And on the other hand, the arrangement of safewords is a protection for the dominant or top too: the basic point of a safeword is so that the submissive or bottom can say things like "no","stop", "mercy", as part of a role-playing, without actually meaning that they want the playing to be interrupted. The safeword, then, is what keeps it consensual, and therefore legal (assuming it to be otherwise legal, too), if that kind of role-play is involved.

Best wishes,
~Demspotis


Excellent clarification Demspotis

Faith,

Please don't confuse your trust issues with his.  If you know that have difficulty finding and maintaining trust in your relationships, I believe it is possible for you to trust and still exercise a safeword if you need to.  Sir deciding that you don't trust him because you want to use a safeword is his issue.  The use of safewords is a widely recognized and recommended practice here.  He might just as easily demand that you have unprotected sex, asking if you trust him, or that you don't wear a seat belt in the car.  Just because the relationship is D/s doesn't change the fact hat its 50/50.  You have equal shares in the reltionship, just different roles. 

yours


_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 3:35:46 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		The inexperience evident in some of these answers is starting to grate on me.

FaithBlue, did he want some hot scene where you were "unable" to refuse him?  Well, if you like this guy and you've been with him for six months, what's the big deal about saying, "I agree, no safe word"?  In addition to the two I provided above, there's always, "Stop right now! Hospital! Hospital!" or any other variation of that.  It's not as though you have no way to stop the scene.

I've certainly been asked to "rape," to "force," and plenty of other things like that.  Was I really forcing her?  No.  Would she have enjoyed it less if I had given her a safe word?  You bet.

I don't think you're telling his side of the story.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to YoursMistress)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 4:15:08 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FaithBlue

We've been together 6 months. We both have children at home, so our RTs together are far between. 

In that case, I agree 100% with what LA said.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Trust - 2/15/2009 4:53:10 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Safe words have nothing to do with trust.  Unfortunately, most people pretend that they do.

Safe word means "Somethings wrong, need to check in NOW"  He is a master, not an omniscient, omnipresent being.  Cramps don't care about trust.  Migraines don't care about trust.  A slipped rope doesn't care about trust.
This is exactly how I feel. It's a clear and concise word that can't be confused with part of the scene. Some of yell "no" and "stop" throughout our scenes, so having a word that has been given a clear value is a good thing. I'll also say that I've yelled "cramp" in the middle of a scene and it worked as well.

I'm firmly on the side of safewords, but I also recognize that some choose not to use them. I think non-safeword scenes require communication and reassurance that if I yell out "cramp" he's going to respect that.

The fact that he cited trust and flounced off doesn't bode well. In order for a non-safeword scene to have trust involved takes communication.....and rather than communicate he threw a temper tantrum.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Trust - 2/16/2009 12:39:58 AM   
chainedgirl


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		There have been times during a scene when I've been fine one minute and for no reason, I've flicked into bad sub space.  Having a simple word like 'red' to remember for such a thing is important.  This is about my internal head space, He has absolutely no control over what goes on in there, neither do I half the time.  There will come a day when He will take my safe word away and He will be in full control.

My concern, as for others here, is the behaviour he displayed at a very important issue.  Obviously, he's aware trust is an issue for you, but I don't see how his stopping off sulking is going to help you get through that issue or trust him more, any time soon.


_____________________________

http://slaveinchains.blogspot.com/

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Trust - 2/16/2009 5:56:05 AM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		"We both have children at home, so our RTs together are far between"

hmm is there a chance that no trust was accompanied by the kids kicking the power cord or projectile vomiting on the couch? This was meant to be an online evening and you both have all kinds of other things going on in the background. That means that background can become the forground real easy. A sudden trip to emergency for the kid or dog means just that. not a lack of trust, but someone living their real life.

just a thought. Online has soooo many ways to go wrong and we (CM, we i mean) haven't heard back about this.


_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to chainedgirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Trust - 2/16/2009 7:20:12 AM   
FaithBlue


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline 		It's hard to respond to everyone. I will work on this tonight.
He has been silent now for a day and a half. I've e-mailed, and IMed, trying to explain my position. Nothing from him.

Amusingly, I realized last night while not sleeping that I can't talk about this to anyone at work. They know I have a "friend", but he's not a bf, and I certainly haven't said anything about him being my Dom. How can I tell my co-workers that, because of a misunderstanding, my friend is allowing me to think about my issues and after a day or so, we'll talk??? I just find it funny, and I see that I'm in this pretty deep.

(in reply to feydeplume)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Trust - 2/16/2009 7:31:39 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FaithBlue

It's hard to respond to everyone. I will work on this tonight.
He has been silent now for a day and a half. I've e-mailed, and IMed, trying to explain my position. Nothing from him.
Personally, throwing a temper tantrum for 2 days would be a deal breaker for me. It solves nothing, isn't constructive and he's using it so that when he finally comes back you'll be so relieved that you'll give up your position. The whole passive agressive thing doesn't fly with me.

quote:

because of a misunderstanding, my friend is allowing me to think about my issues and after a day or so, we'll talk???
He's allowing you to think about your issues? He's off pouting and sulking!


< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 2/16/2009 7:32:12 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to FaithBlue)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> Trust Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094