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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 8:12:17 AM

Coldwarrior57

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

What the hell is JFK doing at #6? Seriously! What in the world did JFK do that makes him the 6th best president in American history?

Camelot!
He was a good looking horn dog that got shot. thats what he did .

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 9:07:12 AM

hardbodysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Bill Clinton's ranking was helped by his good marks for "Crisis Management" ranking 15th versus W's rank of 25. All Bush had to contend with was a recession, 9/11, and a democrat Congress that bordered on being traitors undermining the moral of our troops on the battlefield with furious attacks on the mission and that "all was lost", that we were involved in a "civil war"..and on and on...BS.

Imagine those traitorous bastards, criticizing "the mission" after it was proven that all the justifications given by the administration for "the mission" were false.

Yeah, and how unlucky for Bush that he "had to contend with" things that he was largely responsible for causing.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 9:08:23 AM

hardbodysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Now Obama has to deal with a worse recession,9/11(still un-resolved),Iraq(a bunch of un-necessary bushit),frozen credit markets,nationalized banks,the highest debt inherited by a pres.,etc.,etc.,etc.

There wasn`t one thing bush was involved with that he didn`t fuck up.Not one.

From dirtier air,to weaker protective systems,to Iraq and other foriegn policy failures,to the financial crisis......

~~~~~~~~~~

I`m curious.

If history is going to vindicate bush,what is it that`ll happen,what event(s) or conditions will there be for bush to be viewed as something other than a what he`s viewed as now,a failure?

Bingo!

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 10:11:27 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Bill Clinton's ranking was helped by his good marks for "Crisis Management" ranking 15th versus W's rank of 25. All Bush had to contend with was a recession, 9/11, and a democrat Congress that bordered on being traitors undermining the moral of our troops on the battlefield with furious attacks on the mission and that "all was lost", that we were involved in a "civil war"..and on and on...BS.

Cory, there used to be a time when - even though I seldom agreed with you - your posts often had something about them that made them worth reading, some point of view that added to the discussion. That seems like an awfully long time ago.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 10:21:53 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mozartsfuneral

I think it's because people thought JFK was handsome...and because he died.

That's pretty much it, isn't it? That and the fact that he gave some of the best, most inspiring speeches of any president in American history.

Not a bad president, but really a rather unremarkable record in his short time in office. This is why I don't take this poll seriously. Any poll that has him ranked 6th is meaningless.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 12:07:48 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

What the hell is JFK doing at #6? Seriously! What in the world did JFK do that makes him the 6th best president in American history?

In no particular order:

-Cuban Missile Crisis

-created the Peace Corps

-Nuclear Test Ban Treaty

-the New Frontier programs

-proposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, passed after his assassination

-used federal power to block states from stopping desegregation at the University of Mississippi and the University of
Alabama

-launched the Apollo Project promising to land a man on the moon within ten years, which was accomplished within
that time frame

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 12:19:09 PM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Bill Clinton's ranking was helped by his good marks for "Crisis Management" ranking 15th versus W's rank of 25. All Bush had to contend with was a recession, 9/11, and a democrat Congress that bordered on being traitors undermining the moral of our troops on the battlefield with furious attacks on the mission and that "all was lost", that we were involved in a "civil war"..and on and on...BS.

Imagine those traitorous bastards, criticizing "the mission" after it was proven that all the justifications given by the administration for "the mission" were false.

By "wrong" I'm sure you don't mean the "justifications" at the time of the launch of "shock and awe"..but after we defeated the fourth largest army in the world in a few weeks and did not find WMD's? Gosh, if only all our leaders had the 20/20 hindsight of Barack Obama, Murtha, Reid, and the ever popular Ms Pelosi.
Intel agencies around the world thought Sadaam was working on again developing the nuclear capacity that was dismantled after the first Gulf War. I think even Sadaam thought he had them too! Hillary Clinton voted yes..not because she loved the idea presented by Bush, but because Sadaam was a threat through hubbies administrations, and it was Bill Clinton who developed the concept of "regime change" in Iraq.

So please...spare me the same ol same old.. "Bush lied'..."Cheney twisted the intel"...the "exposed poor Valerie"...a desk jockey at the CIA who occupation I am sure she made sure that everyone on the Georgetown cocktail circuit knew just how important she was at the agency. Do you think Pakistan would have made a deal with the Taliban for Christs sake if Cheney was there...ewwwww they are sooo scared of our young President, and Amtrak Joe Biden. Cheney would be on a plane to Pakistan in a few hours settling this issue.."pick one from column A..one from column B"...that would be their choice.

Say what you will..live in the past...solve the issues of five years ago..and neglect the present. In a few weeks in office, this adminsitration has so screwed up already that the stock market is reacting to a joke of a Stimulus package with a plunge again today...gold is soaring...and our President is doing another "photo op" as he signs a bill four days after it was passed....but there was no time to allow Congress to read. We are getting "Change"...to a world run by a community activist. You do know that ACORN and similar groups got $4 billion in this "stimulus" BS...while $2 billion for veteran hospitals was eliminated. So where is the democrat priority..Getting friggin votes...!!! Sleep well my child...Barney Frank, Pelosi and Reid are watching your back....jeeez

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 12:36:56 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

What the hell is JFK doing at #6? Seriously! What in the world did JFK do that makes him the 6th best president in American history?

In no particular order:

-Cuban Missile Crisis

-created the Peace Corps

-Nuclear Test Ban Treaty

-the New Frontier programs

-proposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, passed after his assassination

-used federal power to block states from stopping desegregation at the University of Mississippi and the University of
Alabama

-launched the Apollo Project promising to land a man on the moon within ten years, which was accomplished within
that time frame

Oh, sure. No question he did some very good things. But is that list really sufficient to elevate him to #6 on the list of all American presidents? Especially in light of a couple accomplishments that you left out, like the Bay of Pigs fiasco, the coup d'etat and ultimate assassination of South Viet Namese president Diem, and the subsequent American military escalaltion in Viet Nam? Have the rest of our presidents really been that mediocre?

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:10:07 PM

Sanity

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You must be projecting here, because I haven't said that

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That's an interesting comparison, coming from someone who has judged the new presidency a failure after three weeks.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:21:46 PM

Vendaval

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Another point to consider is how much of the information from recent administrations remains classified years later.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
If I were doing such a list, I don't think I'd include anyone within the past 50 years. Dust is still settling on those administrations, so the view is murky.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:31:39 PM

dcnovice

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Good point!

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:42:47 PM

Vendaval

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Think of all the death bed confessions or personal diaries that will be revealed as people who were in top govern. positions pass away! Now that would make for some great novel and movie materials.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:44:03 PM

SimplyMichael

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Six years of warfare, a trillion or so in expenses and the Taliban are still in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda is stronger than ever, Osama is still alive. Our allies in the ME? The same ones who staffed and funded 9/11.

We defeated the Nazis AND the Japanese from a standing start in five years after they had conquered most of Europe and Asia.

Leadership my ass!!!!!!!

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 3:46:44 PM

E2Sweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

What the hell is JFK doing at #6? Seriously! What in the world did JFK do that makes him the 6th best president in American history?

It has been a while since I've had a history class, but didn't he back the USSR down ending the Cuban Missile Crisis, and in that, prevent a global thermonuclear war?

Edited to add: Oops! I see this has already been addressed. My bad.

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 2/17/2009 3:48:23 PM >

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 4:18:23 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

Wow, those other 6 guys must have sucked a lot worse than I thought possible!

I was wondering the same thing but as we all know by now...few can even recall the name Millard Filmore.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 5:50:56 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Bill Clinton's ranking was helped by his good marks for "Crisis Management" ranking 15th versus W's rank of 25. All Bush had to contend with was a recession, 9/11, and a democrat Congress that bordered on being traitors undermining the moral of our troops on the battlefield with furious attacks on the mission and that "all was lost", that we were involved in a "civil war"..and on and on...BS.

All that pales in comparison to Billy and his "crisis" being married to Hillary and "staff" meetings with a kid intern in the oval office. I guess the only difference between Obama and Clinton in the Oval Office is that Barack took off his jacket and Bill took off his pants! We have come a long way baby!!

Talk about BS...on both your points, I need to roll up my pants.

Well we have quite enough now, I mean wasn't it Reagan that gave the nukes to N. K and wasn't it Bush I who DIDN'T go all the way in Iraq. but ALL of that aside 2 things in particular.

I TAKE SERIOUS EXCEPTION in the use of the term TRAITORS in any case here.

That is of the most egregious cheap shots there is here. To be loyal opposition is NOT to be a traitor and in fact stretching our military to its limits on an unnecessary war 10,000 miles away from any threat to us...is more traitorous if you wish to go there.

Another point...PLEASE tell me what Reagan did MORE then Carter in 'winning' the cold war ? Time to stop worshiping and kissing the ass of any memory of Ronald Reagan. He too was celebrity without a message just like Obama is suposed to have been as candidate and was less as a professional in anything meaningful, being nothing more than a grad b movie actor.

What I will interject is that CARTER got PERSHING II MISSILES actually installed on the ground in western Europe and while the presidency was still a gleam in Reagan's eye. Reagan did nothing even close and giving a few speeches, telling Gorby no at Iceland which has been groupie-like morphed into some sort of romanticism. Throwing money at the navy and restoring a couple of battleships hardly counts for anything.

I grow weary and my intelligence more insulted everyday I read of such prefunctory little shippets of meaningless politcal pablum as a means to vent your partisan hate...enough.

Carter was much more the man than most opposition politicos and such that continue to insult the man to this day. He was a sucessful businessman peanut farmer and career navy retiring as a nuke sub commander. The only repub coming close before or since was Eisenhower and because of his winning in Europe in WWII.

(Bush I was a 19 yr. old fighter pilot in WWII)

Reagan did almost nothing but double our debt, get 241 Marines killed in their sleep with his gunboat diplomacy which was anything but and adding 200,000 to the federal payroll.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 7:38:33 PM

MarsBonfire

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The thing is, the dam is about to break. Already, "loyal" bushies are coming out of the closet and disclosing their experiences under "W" (stands for worst. president. ever.) That clacking sound you hear are the keyboards of hundreds of White House, military, and associates writing their tell-alls for the publishing industry. Who knows how many skeletons, how many outrages, how many criminal, treasonous acts will come to light in the coming days?

And this doesn't even take into account if there are trials for war crimes including Bush, Cheany, Rove, Rummy, and the rest...

Bush's office chair hasn't even had time for the frabreeze to get all the shit stink out of it... you ain't seen nothin' yet...

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/17/2009 8:33:18 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I do so love how The late 70's economy is laid at the feet of the man who took office in 1977 and not the party that held office for the preceeding 8 years when the problems actually started.

Who instituted the wage and price freeze in 1971? Who bungled the early days of the fiat currency economy? When was the OPEC embargo?

And who decided to continue that idiotuc SNAFU fiasco of a land war in Asia, for another 6 years?

"I am not a crook" Nixon.

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/18/2009 12:46:41 PM

Crush

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I lost several friends over there, HK. And some who came back, well, they didn't come back whole, physically or mentally. And absolutely no support for them other than their close friends, unlike today, fortunately a bit better. Those still the same damaged psyches and physical damage.

I lucked out, no denying that! Was my year the last year of the ping pong balls for the draft that wasn't called up. And my birthday was in the top 10, I think. I didn't get rid of my draft card until I was 40...don't know why!

Politicians aren't generals...nor do they read Sun Tzu. Otherwise, they'd have fought the war and won or gotten the hell out earlier, instead of what they did..screw up micromanaging. I know..."welcome to Iraq."

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RE: History already vindicating Bush - 2/18/2009 5:03:12 PM

MarsBonfire

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Crush, they didn't even need to go as far as reading oriental philosophies about war to realize just how stuck they, as Bre'r Rabbit, were about to become to this particular tar baby. Hell, read Robert Heinlien's essay on "How to be a Survivor." He, speaking as a retired military man back in the late 50's new that when you become an occupying force, you leave yourself open to damage via fifth column attacks.

Armchair warriors like the GOP echo chambers here all seem to be willing to "fight to the last 18 year old" (now that they are all safely beyond any possible draft age) but I like to think that most responsible Americans, IF they had the real information about the situation, would have yanked support for Bush's little "pre-emtive" (aka first, unprovoked, strike) agains a soverign country. I think we would have kept focus on Afhghanistan, and AQ as the primary target.

And maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have lost 4000+ Americans, and 100,000+ (who the hell can be sure? But that's one rough, if conservative, estimate) of innocent Iraqi civilians and saved $400 billion dollars in the process.

This is more than "woulda, coulda, shoulda"... It points to where power should be placed, and where power should be kept from within out government... for a very, very long time to come. Now that things have tipped away from the hawks, from the old men who have never seen blood, but who are bathing in it daily... maybe now we can start setting things right.

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