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ElanSubdued -> RE: A sub who tops from the bottom (3/17/2009 2:14:34 PM)
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princessKatt,
Based on your OP and subsequent posts, it seems that you like this boy a lot. In my experience, having affection for someone isn't incongruent with BDSM dynamics. Rather, seemingly, this is a critical foundation - at least with any person you plan on spending a great deal of time with.
Some of the suggestions you've been given run the gamut of: "show him who is the boss", "don't play with him", "ignore him", and "find another if he doesn't shape up". Ultimatum and ignore/dismiss approaches may look effective on paper and, indeed, they may have a certain "je ne sais quoi" Dommeliness about them that is appealing. Still, I urge you to avoid the temptation of these approaches because, in my opinion, none of them will help your situation.
Hopefully I'm not offering a contrary opinion as a kneejerk reaction after reading the thread. This said, "my way of the highway" approaches might be effective on an Internet forum or with someone who you're not that invested in because the stakes (your opportunity for loss) isn't that high. In real life though, issues in face-to-face dom/sub relationships often require a softer and more involved negotiation than "I'm the Domme, you do what I want". True enough, there may be occasions when pulling rank provides a quick, immediate solution to undesired behaviour, but for ongoing problems, I've never seen this work as an effective tool. On the contrary, when you pull rank it's likely you're not addressing the core of the issue between you and your partner. The result is that mutual resentment builds and the problem becomes worse.
So what do I think may be a solution for your situation? It's perhaps a tad traditional to offer up the old "communicate, negotiate, compromise" standby, but I do so because this is a time-proven tool used effectively by vanilla and kinky people alike.
Communicate. This would be my first starting place. Communicate how you're feeling. Does your boy realize he is disappointing you by directing your scenes in the bedroom? Does he realize you don't enjoy this? On the flip side, I encourage you to find out how your boy is feeling. Rarely is any issue single-sided. Let your boy describe his feelings and thoughts too. Perhaps your boy doesn't know he is behaving poorly or maybe he wants to try something but doesn't know the appropriate way to ask (and hence the bratty hints/direction on his part). Remember that communication is as much speaking your ideas and feelings as it is listening to your partner's. Once you have an understanding of the mutual issues at hand, you can move on to my next suggestion.
Negotiate. You mentioned that your boy isn't 100% submissive. I'm not sure what this means, but if he has little experience in the BDSM arena, then your mutual expectations may not be in sync. For example, your boy may not know that you prefer to lead and that your word is the final decision. This may be a case of discussing behaviours you don't like and training your boy (through communication, occasional reminder, and positive reinforcement) in behaviours you desire. On the other hand, there may be things you both need/want and some of these are in conflict. Thus, a bit of compromise is required. Yes, dominants do compromise. Why? Because sensible leaders know that it's rare to get everything you want, exactly as you want it. You value this boy and find qualities in him that make you happy. Keep your eyes focused on this and try not to get caught up in BDSM ideals and small details that aren't important to your overall happiness.
As you negotiate, try to find solutions that are win-win. In other words, find solutions that work and bring joy for both of you. The more flexible you are, the more likely you'll reach a mutually workable solution. There are likely things you won't compromise on and if you hit one of these, you'll need to communicate this gently, but firmly. These are areas where your boy must be willing to acquiesce and find joy/peace while doing so (either in his supplication or in pleasing you, and hopefully in some combination of these).
It's possible that your boy isn't an ideal submissive. (Is there such a thing?) While he may not be ideal, in my opinion, what matters is the two of you enjoy and value each other more than the few places where you're not a perfect match. You're the only person who can decide if any incompatibilities are significant enough to be a show stopper friendship-wise and/or relationship-wise. As I did above though, I remind you to focus on the bigger picture which is that it appears you've found a man who makes you very happy (albeit he may have a few rough edges as a submissive).
If your boy is willing to communicate, to listen and hear you, to acknowledge and follow your lead and dominance, and to work with you to find solutions that make you both happy, this would seem like a fairly healthy foundation for a femdom/malesub relationship. It's fairly typical that submissives learn their dominant's preferences while making a few mistakes along the way. Ditto for the reciprocal side of the equation. Dominants also learn what works with their submissives while often experiencing a few bumps in the road. In this respect, what you've described is quite a normal part of learning about and growing with your partner.
Review and agree. Once you've found and agreed on a solution, make sure you both understand what you're committing to. Have your boy describe, in his own words, what you've agreed to. On your side of things, if you've agreed to do something as part of the solution, speak your part back to him. If you think it will be helpful, write out the solution so that you have a hard copy to refer to.
Reinforce and remind (if necessary). When your boy follows through, thank him and praise him. Let him know how much you appreciate his efforts. If he slips up and/or starts to repeat the same behaviour, gently remind him and set him back on the correct path. Likewise, follow through on your parts of the solution. Thus, if you've agreed to do certain things, follow through. You're both part of the solution.
Two posts in this thread particularly resonated with me. As follows:
littlesarbonn wrote:
"My advice is to sit down with him in a non-bdsm context and explain to him exactly what you've explained here. Make it CLEAR that if this continues, that you're not interested in continuing to explore this direction with him any further. As long as you let him continue to get away with it, and even make punishment of this behaviour have some type of bdsm element to it, he's going to feel it is some type of "reward" and continue to do it. Unfortunately, not every submissive comes slave trained, and in some cases that might actually be beneficial because your end result will be a product of YOUR hard work. But at the same time, not every submissive is capable of becoming a slave or a molded submissive exactly as you might desire. Hopefully, it is worth it to him to do as you desire to make it work for both of you. For the record, he's very lucky that he has a dominant who cares enough to want to mold him as she desires. Not every submissive recognizes how great that is."
MissMorrigan wrote:
"I have found that the only way to achieve something is to effectively communicate. Ignoring someone frequently backfires and is pretty much an ineffective tool when used for long periods of time (i.e. days/weeks). If I ever reached the stage where I thought to terminate contact with my submissive partner as a weapon/tool used to punish him, I would consider that a great failing on my part, an inability in me to teach him how to respond positively. It's basically a form of giving someone the 'silent treatment', and reminds me of something a teenager would do to get attention."
I've got two final thoughts...
1.) I think someone suggested showing this thread to your boy. That's not a bad idea. This thread might work as a launch pad (of sorts) for your discussion and it might also help your boy understand how his behaviour is affecting you.
2.) Don't mix up topping from the bottom and asking for what you want. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a submissive, at an appropriate time and in an appropriate way, asking directly for what they want. In response, a dominant can always say "no" or "not right now pet". For sure, "appropriateness" is key. As a Domme, you don't want a boy who interrupts with questions/wants at an inappropriate time, but neither (I'm guessing) do you want a mute who is afraid to communicate likes, dreams, desires, etc.
Perhaps, by now, you've got this all solved princessKatt, but if you haven't, I hope something in my feedback is helpful to you.
Elan.
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