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Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 1:14:05 PM

FloridaJules

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

I'm just wondering...within the lifestyle and meeting new people (read Masters/Doms) is it too much to expect to have a bit of normalcy in the meeting and getting to know each other? I don't know if it's something about me or how i behave but it seems like there is an unspoken permission to be groped upon meeting. What ever happened to lunch, dinner, drinks even coffee...nice conversation and getting to know one another...kinda like real dating? I know this lifestyle is a bit more upfront with sexual issues and i honestly don't have a problem with that...however, the lack of basic manners i've seen (not necessarily from CollarMe.com contacts but in general) is quite appalling. I'd love to hear the thoughts of the Masters and Doms out there as well as the experiences of any subs that see this. Thanks in advance

Post #: 1

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 1:25:26 PM

ragdoll

Posts: 231
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: New England
Status: offline

i want to start off saying that i don't have oodles of BDSM experience, so my advice isn't coming from this huge place of wisdom.... however... i'm wondering... why can't you say (write/phone) to someone you meet online...

"Perhaps this won't be an issue with you, but i've had this problem with other people i've met in r/t so i'd like to bring this up with you. On our first (or second and third etc) meeting face to face, i wouldn't like to be touched/groped."

i'm wondering why you couldn't just say that to someone before you ever met?
i wouldn't think someone you've been talking to only online would have the authority just to touch you whenever they wanted (unless you gave them permission to do that). ~ You know..? And certainly on a first meeting you're getting to know each other and just because one person considers themself to be submissive and the other dominant, i don't think that means there shouldn't be some allowance for comfort from both people, especially in the just-getting-to-know-each other stage.... ~

maybe i'm making it too simple since i'm coming from a place of inexperience...

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 2

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 2:28:31 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm just wondering...within the lifestyle and meeting new people (read Masters/Doms) is it too much to expect to have a bit of normalcy in the meeting and getting to know each other?

Unfortunately, no matter where you live or what group you socialize with, there will always be those characters (sorry, gentlemen, but they're almost always hetero male dominants) who are either arrogant or clueless enough to believe that anyone claiming to be submissive is theirs for the taking. Even those who are collared to someone else. The best way I've found to deal with it is to let them know in no uncertain terms the FIRST time it happens that I'm not there to play with them and, if it happens a second time, the meeting is over.

Another thing that might help prevent such forwardness is to carry yourself with an air of authority. The wankers won't know what to think or do, and the knowledgeable dominants will appreciate your self-confidence.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 3

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 2:34:07 PM

ArtfulTrainer

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline

I generally meet in an informal setting at least once-usually several times as I tend to do a lot of questioning and interviewing prior to actual play.
I would never touch another person without their consent (the legal word for that is battery), and expect the same courtesy from them (this is your right whether you are dominant or submissive). If you go to an event, be sure you know the rules-there are some parties where a certain amount of touching is acceptable or even expected, but you should be aware on or prior to arrival.
As a sub you do have the right to demand courtesy and respect and until you have entered in to some agreement you can go as fast or ssslow as you like.
If someone touches you inappropriately let them know-sometimes people just don't know the rules.
Just my 2 cents worth...
-A.T.

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 4

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 6:34:13 PM

newflowers

Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

i found what worked best for me is to avoid and even refuse conversation about sex the first time or two that you talk. if he insists, be straightforward, tell him, no, i do not have sex if and until... whatever works for you. there are those that will try to wear you down, explain how un-submissive you are, etcetera, but stick to your guns. i also wore clothing that was not particularly revealing as i found that if there was too much form or skin or - god forbid - cleavege showing, that was surely a golden engraved invitation to sex no matter what i said. that's not particularly fair, but it is the way of it sometimes.

This method served two purposes for me - first, there was no question about what i would and would not do on a meet or even subsequent dates. submissive or otherwise, you are not obligated to engaged in sexual play if you do not want to - save that for your relationship later if you and he like that sort of thing. second, when a man lost his temper or said negative or nasty things about me when i said no, i was fine with that - check, no meet - end of discussion.

As for manners, politeness, (poor [or repulsive] table manners are a huge turn-off) , well... i expect them and when they are not evident, that's more of a thanks, but no thanks sort of thing.

value yourself and show it.

newflowers

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 5

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 7:58:07 PM

foxglove716

Posts: 648
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

A lot of people on this website will tell you that its important to be upfront and direct about their sexuality, maybe because they dont want to wast time, which is understandable. It works for some, but I dont really want to know that you masturbate with dirty socks if I dont know your middle name first. I think courtship and romance is important in and out of the bdsm world, and if you want to get to know someone before they expose themselves to you (be it literally or metaphorically), then that just weeds out a lot of people you know you dont need to talk to

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 6

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 10:36:08 PM

ginawithaB

Posts: 141
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

For my 2-cents worth...i don't have a problem with sex talk early on, per se, as long as the both of us are comfortable with it...but i do have a problem with overly flippant or crass attitudes about sex, no matter whether it's the 1st date or the 17th. But what i absolutely will not abide is anyone putting their hands on me in any way that i have not expressely permitted and/or invited. Which is why i insist on meeting in very public places until i feel comfortable enough with the individual to entertain more private meetings...however long that takes depends on the individual set of circumstances. i have not met anyone yet bold enough to grope me in a crowded coffee shop or while strolling along on a busy parkway...

Now, i don't have any hard and fast rules against kissing on first dates or even against sex or play...it all depends on a whole lot of circumstances and imho is not as easy as saying, "no, i absolutely will not do this or that"...the most important thing for me is that i have to absolutely feel as though the other is being respectful of me and my limitations whatever they may be at any particular time. If that basic foundation is not there, there is no point in continuing.

Hope that helps in some way. Most important, do whatever you need to do to stay safe...It's both your right and your responsibility. Take care,

gina

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 7

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/18/2006 10:43:59 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm just wondering...within the lifestyle and meeting new people (read Masters/Doms) is it too much to expect to have a bit of normalcy in the meeting and getting to know each other? I don't know if it's something about me or how i behave but it seems like there is an unspoken permission to be groped upon meeting. What ever happened to lunch, dinner, drinks even coffee...nice conversation and getting to know one another...kinda like real dating? I know this lifestyle is a bit more upfront with sexual issues and i honestly don't have a problem with that...however, the lack of basic manners i've seen (not necessarily from CollarMe.com contacts but in general) is quite appalling. I'd love to hear the thoughts of the Masters and Doms out there as well as the experiences of any subs that see this. Thanks in advance

Until you are owned or give consent by/to someone your body is your own.

After that well...individual interpretations guide. Best to know beforehand.

D (owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 8

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 1:34:07 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

It could be bad manners or that they're testing your limits.

I don't think I've groped anyone in the first 5 minutes, although a couple of times the steam was so hot I wanted to!

Hmm… I see you posted 'no-strings housework'. How do you feel about a trip to Orlando? (heh heh heh, little girl)

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 9

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 4:05:35 AM

MasterRobert1

Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline

Personally, I think it's best to start off slow. Get to know one another as people first. After all, a BDSM and/or D.s relationship doesn't spring into being out of thin air. There has to be a foundation, a basis, and understanding. These aren't reached overnight. People first, a BDSM and/or D/s relationship comes afterwards.

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 10

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 7:19:36 AM

FloridaJules

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

First of all, i'd like to thank all that responded. I appreciate your time and thought on this issue. I suppose i never expected to have to deal with more than the usual 'firsts' than when on a vanilla date. I can't recall the last time i had to negotiate the terms of conversation or touching then. We're not in Kansas any more Toto! LOL

And Petruchio, Sir...the no-strings housework i was implying was at my house! hehee....an attempt at humor on my part...perhaps i should modify that...unless there are Doms/Masters out there that are into housework? heheee

(in reply to MasterRobert1)

Post #: 11

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 7:37:10 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Part of the problem I think, lies in the possibility that there are many women today who are perfectly willing and even desire for first dates to be of the groping nature. At least that is what I am hearing from men. It has somehow become sort of the norm.

Maybe that has something to do with people today wanting instant gratification. I really don't know. I do know that when I tell men who I date that there will not be any groping or sex going on....I get that strange look like are you really serious?

I don't have an issue with folks who want to move that fast...to each their own. I do believe that you have to do what feels comfortable for you. But if you have no desire to engage in sex or play on first meet, then I think that you need to have the confidence to clearly state that should things seem to be moving in that direction. No wishy-washy, cutesy mixed signals. If they can't respect that, chances are they won't have respect for some of your other choices either.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 12

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 7:49:37 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I do believe that you have to do what feels comfortable for you. But if you have no desire to engage in sex or play on first meet, then I think that you need to have the confidence to clearly state that should things seem to be moving in that direction. No wishy-washy, cutesy mixed signals. If they can't respect that, chances are they won't have respect for some of your other choices either.

Exactly!!! Speaking as a slut who often does play and have sex on a first date/first party...this could not have been better stated.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 13

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 10:59:52 AM

windy135

Posts: 437
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline

This was a good post. I feel like I have the same problem. The guys I talk to into the lifestyle seem to careless about who I am but want to know what I'm into. They think are first meeting will always lead to more. I become very uninterested in the guy then. I know that not all guys are like this but the majority I feel are. I feel like I've given up on Dominate men.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 14

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 11:44:30 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

This was a good post. I feel like I have the same problem. The guys I talk to into the lifestyle seem to careless about who I am but want to know what I'm into. They think are first meeting will always lead to more. I become very uninterested in the guy then. I know that not all guys are like this but the majority I feel are. I feel like I've given up on Dominate men.

Some confusion is understandable because this so much of the focus of this web site is on sex. It's only when someone actually says they aren't (initially) into sex, that people go, "Huh? Oh!"

(in reply to windy135)

Post #: 15

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 11:46:30 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

And Petruchio, Sir...the no-strings housework i was implying was at my house! hehee....an attempt at humor on my part...perhaps i should modify that...unless there are Doms/Masters out there that are into housework? heheee

Ah, Jules, now you know my secret: First and foremost, I need a house slave!

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 16

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 3:26:19 PM

FloridaJules

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

hehehee....me too Petruchio, Sir?

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 17

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 3:32:58 PM

FloridaJules

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

The guys I talk to into the lifestyle seem to careless about who I am but want to know what I'm into. They think are first meeting will always lead to more.

Thank you windy for sharing that...i'm glad i'm not the only one that has had this experience. It seems too many men forget that i'm a woman first and sub secondly...you'll have to engage my mind first for anything else to interest me.

(in reply to windy135)

Post #: 18

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/19/2006 11:43:12 PM

RealDeal1963

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline

I may go against the consensus a little bit, but oh well.

A while back I got a phone call from a sub that I had known online only. She was in town on business and looked me up. We met the next day, spent a neat day seeing the sights of the city, a day in Tijunana (she really wanted to see it...so what the heck, even though it's not on my top 20 list by any means).

Anyway, the day went nice we got to chit chat about many things and I was very impressed, and as we ate dinner naturally my curiousity got the better of me. When we were waiting for dessert I lowered my voice, reached across the table and semi-discreetly brushed the back of my hand up her chest, placed my hand on her neck and told her I didn't think she was a true sub or she'd have long since been collared.

I felt the moment was right and wanted to push her a bit...test her and see how she reacted. Her reaction was A+, she suddenly lowered her eyes, placed her hand on mine, paused, then removed it. She quietly called me "Sir" (for the first time that day) and told me her submission is without question whether it's been given or not. Or words pretty close to that anyway.

To shorten the story we had a great dinner, and a few drinks afterwards and some great exchanges about Ds. Nothing else though, that was it. We still lived on opposite coasts and neither of us were looking for a one night stand.

The point of the story though is, that although I agree that crass, crude, sophomoric gropes are uncalled for, I think they still have a place. In my example, really it wasn't a grope, it was more of a brush and invading her personal space a bit and it turned the conversation towards Ds instead of the other trivial idle stuff.

But I also already knew the sub to some extent, the test wasn't done within the first minutes we met and I did it for a higher reason than to just cop a cheap feel. I just wanted to mention it because sometimes Doms have intentions that don't come off quite as smooth and sohpisticated as we intend (not me of course, I'm perfect).

There are still differences between my example and Jules though: Right time, right place, right manner and a reason. I realize subs shouldn't have to work so hard to fend off posers and unwanted advances and that's wrong...and sad.

If I were approached with some of the suggested prior "warnings" or suggestions of earlier posts I wouldn't be the least offended and it might actually be a funny opening to start sharing stories.

(in reply to FloridaJules)

Post #: 19

RE: Is a little normalcy too much to expect? - 1/20/2006 12:34:49 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

The point of the story though is, that although I agree that crass, crude, sophomoric gropes are uncalled for, I think they still have a place.

That didn't seem crass, crude or sophomoric in any way.

Whew. Is it just me, or is it really hot in here?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to RealDeal1963)

Post #: 20

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