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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 8:05:08 AM   
Coldwarrior57


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

...Or is Congress worse than a mad monkey?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/6269386.html

  What's your take on the cartoon?  Is it a racist shot at the President, or just a joke in bad taste about the bill? 
well Seeings as obama didnt write the porkulus bill then no.
and even if it was, it would not be.
it wasnt that long ago that they ( the media) drew W as a chimp.


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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 8:41:41 AM   
HotWheelz


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It's in poor taste, but then most political cartoons are in poor taste.  That's the nature of the beast.  However, I find them to be funny for the most part whether they're making fun of W's inability to speak well or O's pork filled "stimulus" bill that while he didn't write it, he called for and still claims that it has no pork.  The emporer has no clothes.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 9:45:48 AM   
MasterShake69


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yes you will be when the left trys to cry racism ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69


it will be fun the next 4 years. Any insult or slight obama suffers, Bush had suffered 10 fold.  




Poor Dubya.

How he suffered for us all.

I'm gonna miss him soooooo much!!!!!!!!!!






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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 10:49:18 AM   
corysub


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I think it's a sad day for the monkeys and chimps.  In general, they are a lot more intelligent than the Congress of the United States who would pass the largest spending Bill in the history of mankind with most of them not reading it so they could vote and go on vacation!

I think we could save a lot of money by just teaching chimps to raise there hands when their name is called in the House and Senate.  All it would cost us might be a couple of yellow bannana'...PLU 4011

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 11:09:50 AM   
SteelofUtah


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Things like this drive me nuts. It's a Cartoon Everyone needs to wipe thier BooBoo's and stop trying to make everything worse than it is. A Picture is a Picture and more over an Opinion, even if the Artist did think that Obama was a Monkey doesn't make him racist I personally don't think Monkey and African Americans in the same way, I would never put the two together, I do happen to think Bush looked like the Chimp they put him next too, I am wondering why that wasn't Racist when it happened?

Look the POINT of the cartoon is Obvious.

A Long Line in BAD situations. The idea is that the stimulus bill is not only a bad decison it seems to have been thought through by a Monkey, but NOT just ANY monkey a Monkey that had to be Put Down.

It wasn't Funny but these kinds of comics aren't always supposed to be funny this one simply showed in my opinion that this stimulus bill is a Tragedy.

But thats just my take on the picture

Steel

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:34:24 PM   
Vendaval


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Already answered in post #12.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Did you feel the same way when people referred to Bush as the chimp in charge?


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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:35:28 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

but nobody was repulsed when bush was compared to a chimp?

Can late night comedians make fun of Obama like they did with Bush?
or do they have to be careful and treat him with kid gloves?


I find your lack of knowledge of racial history and your lack of compassion to not be in the least bit surprising. 

In a derogatory manner blacks have far too often compared to apes and monkees. It is an attempt to slander a group of people in a manner that has greater depth and is much more insidious than any comparison that has been directed at Bush....Again, it speaks volumes about your character or your intelligence not to be able to realize this fact.

For the Post not to recognize the historic racial implications suggested in the cartoon is completely moronic.

Let's take them(the Post) at face value,  it is supposedly about the chimp that chewed off a woman's nose and eyes and had to be shot by police...Where is the humor in that? 

It is not funny at best and is racially insensitive if not motivated at worse. The beautiful thing about this is that we have Freedom of Speech in this country. It allows the Post as well as you and I to print and say whatever we pretty much feel like.  We can react and formulate our own opinions about this cartoon or the posters that partcipate on this forum and then choose what actions we should take.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:37:14 PM   
snappykappy


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they did have an article stating the math skills between monkeys and college students are the same

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:43:40 PM   
Owner59


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The Post has a long history of bigoted cartoons and articles.It`s a conservative rag,nothing new there.

The back peddling,logic bending and talk out`a both sides of the mouth is hilarious,though.

Funny.Up till that cartoon,no one on the con side associated the stim bill with anyone other than Obama.It was all Obama`s and he was leading us down the path of destruction.lol

Now the conservatives,all defensive and stuff(lol, and Freudian),are saying it`s obvious that the reference was to congress.lol,...surrrre...

Again with this party,a mixture of naiveté,narcissism and a con man`s moxie, showing in this case.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/19/2009 12:53:50 PM >


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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:50:22 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Things like this drive me nuts. It's a Cartoon Everyone needs to wipe thier BooBoo's and stop trying to make everything worse than it is. A Picture is a Picture and more over an Opinion, even if the Artist did think that Obama was a Monkey doesn't make him racist I personally don't think Monkey and African Americans in the same way, I would never put the two together, I do happen to think Bush looked like the Chimp they put him next too, I am wondering why that wasn't Racist when it happened?


Steel


I'm sorry .  I can't understand how anyone can not "get it." ....But I tell you what, since there are so many out here that seem not to be able to see a connection I have an experiment for you.

This should be fun....Walk right up to a group of white guys and say, "Do you monkeys know how to get to 7th street?"  You will be given some odd looks but I imagine that either they will walk away or they might even answer your question.

Now here is the fun part....Since there is no correlation historically than none of you should have anything to fear....Nothing at all.  Please make sure your health insurance premiums are paid up before attempting...Can't wait for your reports! 

You walk up to a group of black guys and say, "Do you monkeys know how to get to 7th street?" You have to say it nice and loud, because you are really in a fucking hurry and you do really need to get to seventh street.

I wish you all good luck.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 12:55:24 PM   
Vendaval


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This particular cartoonist is noted for his bad taste and remember, we are talking about The New York Post which has become sensationalist since being bought by Murdoch.  One of view would be that these type of tactics are used specifically to generate controversy and publicity and increased sales.


From Trip Atlas.com, about New York -

"The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch's ownership for what many consider its lurid headlines, sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias. In 1980, the ''Columbia Journalism Review'' asserted that "the ''New York Post'' is no longer merely a journalistic problem. It is a social problem - a force for evil."[32]

Perhaps the most serious allegation against the ''Post'' is that it is willing to contort its news coverage to suit the business needs of Murdoch, in particular that the paper has avoided reporting anything unflattering to the government of China. Murdoch has invested heavily in satellite television there and wants to maintain the favor of Chinese media regulators.[33]"   "
 

Break
 
 
"According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, the ''New York Post'' was rated the least credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).[4950]"

http://www.tripatlas.com/New_York_Post

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 1:16:38 PM   
BLKMADONA


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Domiguy-if anyone does that test, let me know. How would a person "get it" if that person(through history) has never been tied to such degradation. For African-Americans its almost "instilled" subconsciencously within our minds the association between any type of ape/monkey/chimp. If the post should have two African-American cops shoot "someone in a hooded-like outfit" and there was a Klan event, but the caption read something of a political nature.............then what? Always put the shoe on the other foot when one does not "get it". But also on the same note- things like that does not bother me as Im not much of a political person, nor do I care what anyone says. Free speech is just that....however insensitive it may be.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 1:29:50 PM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Things like this drive me nuts. It's a Cartoon Everyone needs to wipe thier BooBoo's and stop trying to make everything worse than it is. A Picture is a Picture and more over an Opinion, even if the Artist did think that Obama was a Monkey doesn't make him racist I personally don't think Monkey and African Americans in the same way, I would never put the two together, I do happen to think Bush looked like the Chimp they put him next too, I am wondering why that wasn't Racist when it happened?


Steel


I'm sorry .  I can't understand how anyone can not "get it." ....But I tell you what, since there are so many out here that seem not to be able to see a connection I have an experiment for you.

This should be fun....Walk right up to a group of white guys and say, "Do you monkeys know how to get to 7th street?"  You will be given some odd looks but I imagine that either they will walk away or they might even answer your question.

Now here is the fun part....Since there is no correlation historically than none of you should have anything to fear....Nothing at all.  Please make sure your health insurance premiums are paid up before attempting...Can't wait for your reports! 

You walk up to a group of black guys and say, "Do you monkeys know how to get to 7th street?" You have to say it nice and loud, because you are really in a fucking hurry and you do really need to get to seventh street.

I wish you all good luck.


The difference is that this cartoon was not directed at "a group of black guys", or even one black man. It was directed at the stimulus package. Most references to monkeys, apes, and the like, have absolutely nothing to do with race, yet because a very small number of them do, people try to infer race into all such references. With this kind of thinking, the only way to be "sensitive" enough is to never mention monkeys or apes anywhere. Nooses, too, obviously. We'll have to go back and edit all the hanging scenes out of Clint Eastwood's movies, not to mention zillions of other westerns; we'll have to release all monkeys and apes from zoos and circuses, and any roles in movies (I guess Bedtime for Bonzo, Every Which Way But Loose, Monkey Business, and lots of other movies will have to be banned).

If people can't see the difference between calling a piece of legislation stupid and calling a person a monkey (or a group of people monkeys), then the problem is with THEM. I didn't like the cartoon or what it implied. I thought it was crude, unimaginative, and simply wrong economically. But it wasn't racist.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 1:51:14 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub
The difference is that this cartoon was not directed at "a group of black guys", or even one black man. It was directed at the stimulus package. Most references to monkeys, apes, and the like, have absolutely nothing to do with race, yet because a very small number of them do, people try to infer race into all such references. With this kind of thinking, the only way to be "sensitive" enough is to never mention monkeys or apes anywhere. Nooses, too, obviously. We'll have to go back and edit all the hanging scenes out of Clint Eastwood's movies, not to mention zillions of other westerns; we'll have to release all monkeys and apes from zoos and circuses, and any roles in movies (I guess Bedtime for Bonzo, Every Which Way But Loose, Monkey Business, and lots of other movies will have to be banned).

If people can't see the difference between calling a piece of legislation stupid and calling a person a monkey (or a group of people monkeys), then the problem is with THEM. I didn't like the cartoon or what it implied. I thought it was crude, unimaginative, and simply wrong economically. But it wasn't racist.


It is a rather ridiculous notion to say that it could not be interpreted to be directed at Obama....I have seen way too many posters come out here and refer to the stimulus package as being "his."

So it can easily be interpretated that Obama is the "one black man" responsible for the stimulus bill.  If you do not have the capability to reach this as a possible conclusion then I don't know what else to say.

Either way, it is not effective or particularily well executed.  Are we too sensitive? Possibly. 

Howard Cossell got fired from Monday Night Football after referring to Art Monk as a "little monkey."  Howard Cossell was not a rascist. That was years ago and I would like to think that we have advanced in our thinking and relationships when it comes to matters of race.  However, one should be wise enough to realize that there is history and a dire and severely negative connotation when comparing blacks to monkeys.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/19/2009 1:56:06 PM >


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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 1:53:15 PM   
ladynlord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the first thing I thought about the cartoon was the old adage monkeys and typewriters eventually coming up with the works of shakespeare/congress bill.



infinite monkey theorem - a monkey at a typwritter randomly hitting keys for infinity, will eventually reproduce every book. 

Or a better way to look at it is that every member of the legislative and executive branches that have contributed to, voted for, or supported the stimulus package have been compared to a rabid monkey....not any one particular skin tone, just all of the politicians connected to it.  Which is really insulting.....to the rabid monkey.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 1:55:25 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Now see Domiguy. I agree and yes It would be like sending my Grandpa to Harlem and waiting til he eventually called someone Son or Boy.

This was not the point. I personally do not go directly to Monkey must be some jab at African Americans because I am NOT racist. I think people who get all in arms about it (Yes I understand the historical conotations but this if 2009 not 1909) are racist or at least want everyone to be racist. The "N" word is a big one to me, the fact that it has become a beloved greeting among those of the African American Heritage makes me wonder if people what racism to stop the fact that the word remains in terms is a sign to remind those about thier differences not learn to see past them.

As the person above me points out the Comic was not about race..... AT ALL. It was about a Dead Monkey and the Stimulas Bill, if you want to make it a racial issue then you have to determine what the artist thought when they did that. if you can read minds you are a better man than I.

Steel

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 2:02:13 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

As the person above me points out the Comic was not about race..... AT ALL. It was about a Dead Monkey and the Stimulas Bill, if you want to make it a racial issue then you have to determine what the artist thought when they did that. if you can read minds you are a better man than I.

Steel


Steel, my friend, though it is possible that the comic has nothing to do with race, whatsoever, I can see the possible implications, the connection and the potential fallout.

Just saying when Howard Cossell referred to Art Monk as a "little monkey" it truly was a harmless quip....It cost him his job

If  I owned a toy store on the southside of Chicago it probably wouldn't be wise or increase sales to start my commercial by suggesting that parents should throw their little monkeys into the car and come get some toys.

Where is the common sense?  You really can't see this?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/19/2009 2:03:46 PM >


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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 2:15:31 PM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub
The difference is that this cartoon was not directed at "a group of black guys", or even one black man. It was directed at the stimulus package. Most references to monkeys, apes, and the like, have absolutely nothing to do with race, yet because a very small number of them do, people try to infer race into all such references. With this kind of thinking, the only way to be "sensitive" enough is to never mention monkeys or apes anywhere. Nooses, too, obviously. We'll have to go back and edit all the hanging scenes out of Clint Eastwood's movies, not to mention zillions of other westerns; we'll have to release all monkeys and apes from zoos and circuses, and any roles in movies (I guess Bedtime for Bonzo, Every Which Way But Loose, Monkey Business, and lots of other movies will have to be banned).

If people can't see the difference between calling a piece of legislation stupid and calling a person a monkey (or a group of people monkeys), then the problem is with THEM. I didn't like the cartoon or what it implied. I thought it was crude, unimaginative, and simply wrong economically. But it wasn't racist.


It is a rather ridiculous notion to say that it could not be interpreted to be directed at Obama....I have seen way too many posters come out here and refer to the stimulus package as being "his."

So it can easily be interpretated that Obama is the "one black man" responsible for the stimulus bill.  If you do not have the capability to reach this as a possible conclusion then I don't know what else to say.

Either way, it is not effective or particularily well executed.  Are we too sensitive? Possibly. 

Howard Cossell got fired from Monday Night Football after referring to Art Monk as a "little monkey."  Howard Cossell was not a rascist. That was years ago and I would like to think that we have advanced in our thinking and relationships when it comes to matters of race.  However, one should be wise enough to realize that there is history and a dire and severely negative connotation when comparing blacks to monkeys.

Is it really that difficult to understand?


Of course it's not hard to understand. Believe me, I had it drilled into me ad nauseum in college and post graduate programs. I was thinking about the Howard Cosell incident also, but was reluctant to mention it. He was actually paying Monk a compliment, referring to him as a monkey because of the way he was scampering all over the field, and nobody could catch him. That's exactly the kind of hypersensitivity I'm talking about. The assumption of racism (or sexism) is made whenever possible, no matter how remotely, no matter how hard one has to stretch to make it fit, and people get all riled up. We ought to be doing the opposite; assume that racism/sexism wasn't intended unless it's obvious that it was.

Getting back to the cartoon, I didn't say that it couldn't be interpreted as directed at Obama personally. But anyone who knows anything at all knows that Obama didn't write the bill, and the obvious motivation of the cartoonist was political. The clear intent was to insult the bill and the intelligence of its authors, not to make a racist comment. I think the cartoonist is pretty much an idiot, is completely wrong, and used a poor vehicle. But he had no incentive to make a racial comment, and I think it's pretty clear he didn't mean it that way.

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 2:26:37 PM   
lronitulstahp


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So people don't think Delonas is a racist...fine...can we all agree that he's a homophobe?


http://gawker.com/5155855/ten-masterpieces-from-sean-delonas

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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/19/2009 3:13:21 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Domi,

No I do see it. The problem is that everyone is up in arms before they know the background.

I may not understand what it is like to be black, but I do know what it is like to be Fat, but I don't get insulted when someone offers me a piece of Cake or Kool-aid to drink. I was tormented, teased, and got the shit kicked out of me for 6 years (Junior High and High School) all because I was Fat, Now maybe this isn't a good enough analogy because where as I could have lost weight someone cannot change thier color, but I understand being called names and being teased and even beaten for who I was. I just am not willing to speak for someone elses intentions until I know what they are.

The Howard Cosell issue is kind of my point. Do you think he should have been fired? Or do you think that someone made an issue out of somthing that WASN'T an issue?

Like this Cartoon. Hell maybe that is exactly what this guy wanted to happen and maybe that was his purpose but until that is said for sure I will assume the best not the worst and try to find something I CAN relate to in the Cartoon.

I am not arguing your point because I agree with the racial conotations of the work Monkey when it is used as a Racial Slur however just saying Monkey and Depicting a Monkey and using Monkey as a slur are three different things.

Steel

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