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Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 6:47:08 AM   
KaineD


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So I was watching this clip of Rush Limbaugh, and I was thinking how this man represents everything that is wrong with the republican party.  This incredible "us vs them", "the liberals are the enemy", "why don't they leave" divisive mentality that it seems to me too many core republicans subscribe to.  Not to mention the fantasy version of events men like Rush attempt to paint that too many people also subscribe to.  EVERYTHING bad is the democrates fault.  And Obama has only been in power a short time, but he's trying to tear down the country and remake it.

Here is the clip with commentary from Young Turks, couldn't find the Rush clip by itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr_NjJ9W680&feature=channel_page

So I mean, what I think Republicans need to do is distance themselves as much as possible from extremists like Rush, otherwise the party overall risks becoming completely irrelevant.  Republicans also need to accept the mistakes of the past, instead of being apologists for Bush and salvage the Bush administrations place in history.  Bush failed.  Accept it, learn from it.
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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 7:26:52 AM   
Owner59


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No!

It`s fine just the way it is.....

Rush/Palin in "2012"!

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 7:32:05 AM   
MasterShake69


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and how did the left act the past 4 years?

its ok for it to be us vs them when you are liberal and they are republicans in power ;)


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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 7:37:27 AM   
Crush


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Yeah, it needs to change.  But then, so does the Democrat Party.

They will, "come the Revolution."   




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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 7:37:44 AM   
KaineD


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Well see MasterShake69, Bush deserved all the criticism he got from the left.  That's the difference.

We're about a month into Obama's administration, and we have republicans on this very forum placing the blame for the current economic mess squarely at Obama's feet...

Bush waged an illegal war under false pretenses, his administration IS largely responsible for our current economic mess, and he was abusing the rights of the people by spying on them without warrents.

Don't play the "you lefties do it too" card because it doesn't stick.

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 7:46:54 AM   
windchymes


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I don't think a party whose members are happy with it needs to change.  It may dwindle down to not much in time, but it's their party. 

Rather, people who are unhappy with the party for what it is need to join the party they do feel a kinship with, or start their own party. 

....and they can cry if they want to.....

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:00:44 AM   
corysub


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Thanks for the helpful ideas..but no thank you.  I don't think the republican party will benefit from ideas offered by liberals who are destroying the very fabric of what made America....Capitalism!   Putting in Mr. Steele as head of the RNC was a major positive step.  I think if Arlen Spector was thown out of the party to join his friends on the other side of the aisel..that would be a major plus..and I would throw in Snow and Collins too..  Lets make it official and put the jackasses in the right party!

Than we have to learn from Obama...work the grass roots now loading up with eager volunteers who feel they are no longer part of the American dream...a country that benefits losers...people who, as Mr. Santulli said..."Don't want to carry to water, but want to drink the water".

After 50 years of democrat control of Congress...da bums were thrown out by in the early 1990's.  Unfortunately, over the years they became as corrupt as the democrats...I guess the cancer bug in Congress must spread like wildfire after a few years of exposure.  As we get back to basic conservative philosophy, we will once again demolish the liberal radical theory that government know all, is all, and can be all...and 2010 will be the biggest win for us in years.

Tell me, what did Rush say while You were listening to him that was a lie...or Sean Hannity..Ann Coulter..et al.    Why are the democrats so keen on the FCC activating the "Fairness Doctrine"...because these guys tell it as it is...and people know that.  Air America, on the other hand, was just hours of hysterical, irrational commentary..vile attacks on the President...and failed.  You tell me...

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:08:03 AM   
rulemylife


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I believe you've just illustrated the OP's point.

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:24:20 AM   
Owner59


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Ummm,bush destroyed capitalism..... all on his own.

Actually,cons know very little about capitalism (or anything more complicated than a bumper sticker),markets and financial matters.It`s all a mystery that just "happens",like the weather.

Like FDR did over a half century ago,we`re going to save it from the crooks,thieves,wall street swindlers and now,amateur neo-economists and the deregulation crowd(that got us where we are).

I doubt if the GOP will ever be given a pair a scissors,let alone be vested with the awesome and complicated task of running our country.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/20/2009 8:26:18 AM >


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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:25:44 AM   
MasterShake69


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and the left wasnt attacking bush after his first day in office????  Hell they were attacking him even before that.
Bush reaching out to the other party putting democrats in his cabinet....and what did bush get for his trouble???

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-will-name-his-cabinet-in-time-for-christmas-627635.html

An intriguing rumour also has Mr Bush inviting the current Treasury Secretary, Lawrence Summers, to stay on. Appointed by President Clinton last year, Mr Summers would expect to be looking elsewhere for a job, but Mr Bush will be trying to demonstrate his commitment to healing by bringing at least one Democrat into his Cabinet; holding on to Mr Summers - as a Clinton appointee - might help.The president-elect could also look to Democrats in Congress. Those he knows best include Senator John Breaux of Louisiana, who has been tipped as the next Energy Secretary.Who will go to the Pentagon and the desk of Secretary of Defence is also a hot point of speculation. Some had expected Mr Bush to recruit the former Democrat Senator Sam Nunn to the post, but Mr Nunn, an Atlanta native, has indicated his unwillingness to take it, so eyes have turned to another former member of the Senate, Dan Coats of Indiana, who served as a Republican.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-39166006.html Bush Cabinet Appointee Linda Chavez Heavily Opposed By Democrats, CBS From: CBS Evening News with Dan Rather | Date: January 8, 2001| Author: document.write("Dan Rather, John Roberts"); Dan Rather, John Roberts
DAN RATHER, CBS ANCHOR: President-elect Bush`s skills at damage control and managing controversy are being put to the test, after new disclosures about one of his most heavily opposed cabinet choices: labor secretary- designate Linda Chavez. CBS` John Roberts has the latest questions about Chavez and how team Bush is handling them.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2001/01/08/camp.2.t.phpDemocrats Turn Up Heat on Bush's Conservative Appointments : Senate Confirmation Fight Looms By Brian Knowlton Published: MONDAY, JANUARY 8, 2001 WASHINGTON: President-elect George W. Bush and his congressional allies continued to work through the weekend to put in place an administration and a legislative leadership with strong focus on achieving the goals on which he campaigned, headed by a sweeping tax cut. But Democrats made it clear on Sunday that they will closely question, and possibly even fight to block, some of Mr. Bush's more politically conservative cabinet nominees during Senate hearings. Depending on how strenuous that resistance is in confirmation hearings, the incoming president's early efforts to pursue bipartisan cooperation could be compromised. "Today it's an open question about whether some of these nominees will be confirmed," the Senate Democratic leader, Tom Daschle of South Dakota, said Sunday in a CBS television interview. That comment raised doubts about what had been a widely accepted assumption that the Bush nominees, however philosophically objectionable to some Democrats, could expect Senate confirmation. Mr. Daschle would not even rule out the possibility that the nomination of Linda Chavez as labor secretary, which is bitterly opposed by the union groups that supported Vice President Al Gore, would draw a Democratic filibuster.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0109-02.htm
As Kerry must know, those are fine distinctions that will be lost in any real political battle. He and others should weigh their fear of being cast as liberals against the benefits. For one thing, the Bush victory fired up the Democrats' liberal base and not just in Massachusetts. Voters, especially in minority communities, are angry over the process and the outcome. Next time, they will be primed and ready to vote for those who stand up for them. For another thing, Al Gore won the popular vote on the basis of a campaign that ran true to liberal causes. He got as many votes as he did because traditional liberal constituencies - labor, minorities, and women - supported him. Who wouldn't want their support in the future? Maybe Democrats can't defeat these Cabinet nominees. But a spirited opposition, rooted in liberal principles, can lay the groundwork for the next critical battlegrounds, including the US Supreme Court. Besides, conservatives are not afraid to Bork the opposition, so, why should liberals shy away? Standing against something or someone for the right reasons is better than standing for nothing for the wrong ones.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2001/01/14/story171699928.asp
Bush has constructed a Republican cabinet with just as much claim as Bill Clinton's Democratic cabinet to "look like America". Round the table will be six white men, two black men, three white women, one Asian American man, one Hispanic man and one Hispanic woman. Whatever else he can be accused of, Bush cannot be charged with the traditional Republican vice of choosing a row of white men in suits. In addition, it is worth noting, Bush has struck a blow for grey power. Clinton's outgoing cabinet was strikingly young, reflecting the "New Democrat" claim to represent a new era in progressive government. Bush, on the other hand, has gone for a team with an average age of 58, and has named men of pensionable age to head the three key departments of state, defence and the treasury. The new president may be politically inexperienced, but he has indisputably sent for the grown-ups. It has also been assembled remarkably quickly. It is barely three and a half weeks since Al Gore finally conceded, and in that time, Bush has put together a cabinet totally plausible in party and governmental terms. Yes, there were arguments about the Pentagon and about the justice department, of which more in a moment, but they were quickly solved and without an atmosphere of leaks. Compared with the Clinton transition of 1993, this has been a conspicuously professional job.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june01/cabinet_01-08.html



quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

Well see MasterShake69, Bush deserved all the criticism he got from the left.  That's the difference.

We're about a month into Obama's administration, and we have republicans on this very forum placing the blame for the current economic mess squarely at Obama's feet...

Bush waged an illegal war under false pretenses, his administration IS largely responsible for our current economic mess, and he was abusing the rights of the people by spying on them without warrents.

Don't play the "you lefties do it too" card because it doesn't stick.

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:34:58 AM   
Owner59


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Big difference .

Clinton brought us 8 years of success,growth(real),peace and kept our financial house in order.

bush?

lol

Complete failure. Financially,as a leader and C&C,morally and with just about every metrics we have to measure performance.

Hell,the neo-con legacy of insolvent banks,run away foreclosure,wounded vets that`ll need never ending care,an SEC in ruins,the money pit in Iraq,etc.,etc.,etc. are going to pay a kind of ugly,horrible dividend for years and years to come.

If they want to stay relevant,they`ll have to change.

That`s why I`m so heartened to see the reaction to suggestions like these.

It just illustrates clearer why they shouldn`t even be in charge of making cup cakes for the firehouse fund drive,let alone the power of life,death and liberty over us.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/20/2009 8:41:25 AM >


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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:41:09 AM   
MasterShake69


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Look at what i just found.  a few days prior to 9-11 the democrats were focused on attacking bush.  They were actually airing TV commercials attacking the president.
I wonder if there is a schedule I can get on the time and day of the airing of the commercials.  Going by a typical ad buy, at its time in later August early September would make it likely the commercials were aired at the sametime the 9-11 attacks occurred.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/08/19/dnc.anti.bush.ads/index.html
Democrat ads to attack Bush policies August 19, 2001 Posted: 8:09 AM EDT (1209 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Democratic National Committee will soon air television ads in Washington and across the country attacking President Bush's economic and budget policies. "We believe this is a defining moment for President Bush," said DNC Chairman Terry McAullife. "The bills for Bush's irresponsible fiscal policies are coming due. We are determined to take every measure to ensure that the American people know what is at stake in the upcoming budget battle." Bob Shrum, a chief strategist for Gore 2000, developed the TV spots, which will run on Washington, D.C., cable stations and in "a few" cities around the country.


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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:48:16 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

So I was watching this clip of Rush Limbaugh, and I was thinking how this man represents everything that is wrong with the republican party.  This incredible "us vs them", "the liberals are the enemy", "why don't they leave" divisive mentality that it seems to me too many core republicans subscribe to.  Not to mention the fantasy version of events men like Rush attempt to paint that too many people also subscribe to.  EVERYTHING bad is the democrates fault.  And Obama has only been in power a short time, but he's trying to tear down the country and remake it.

Here is the clip with commentary from Young Turks, couldn't find the Rush clip by itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr_NjJ9W680&feature=channel_page

So I mean, what I think Republicans need to do is distance themselves as much as possible from extremists like Rush, otherwise the party overall risks becoming completely irrelevant.  Republicans also need to accept the mistakes of the past, instead of being apologists for Bush and salvage the Bush administrations place in history.  Bush failed.  Accept it, learn from it.


The truth is both sides need change and neither side has the answers. There will always be partisans out here throwing crap around about how republicans caused this or democrats caused that. The truth is, for the most part, both sides have equal culpability. They'll all get up and spout endless horseshit about what they oppose and what they support, but virtually no one turns down money, and both sides took part in creating virutally every social ill we as a society face.

Like or hate his commentary in that piece, the shred of truth in it is that it is all about control - for both sides and neither side can stand the other. Compromise used to be something we were taught. There is no compromise between the extremes on either side. Both will find some reason to hate and decry the other. Not long ago I looked at a "blue" secession map, where "progressive" states were drawn into their own country. I've seen the same types of maps and thought on the other side. Everyone is pissed off for some reason. Take the name tags off a lot of politicians though and you find the same greed, the same corruption, the same voting records.

I agree change is needed. The republicans and democrats need to sever the far end of their support spectrums because until they do, both carry the banner of extremist thought. That may be fine and dandy with them, but the people who elect presidents aren't party faithful. It's the swing voter who tolerates one side other other until they become intolerable.

Edited to ad that I absolutely do not support the fairness doctrine. Most talk shows are profit making, not RNC or DNC owned. If you want fairness, create something people will listen to. There is nothing fair about going into a business and telling them how to run it or what they have to run. Makes me wonder what will happen to public radio though.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 2/20/2009 8:53:24 AM >

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:48:17 AM   
Sanity


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It looks to me like that bad 'ol Democrat party needs to change. There should be a Fairness Doctrine forcing Kieth Overmann to share his airtime with Ann Coulter, and those mean partisan Democrats should be forced to allow Republicans to write half of the legislation that passes into law.

Then and only then would everything be fair and perfectly nonpartisan...



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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 8:49:34 AM   
Owner59


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And if they had listened and had been a little more open minded to listening to their critics,maybe we wouldn`t be in this financial mess.Yes?

Thank GOD we swatted them back from "privatizing" Social Security(ie,giving alllll that SS money to wallstreet crooks).

Allllll that money would have been sucked down a drain as well,and then where would we be with millions more people made broke?

Aside of the fact that the criticisms were correct and valid,what`s your point?

That policies shouldn`t be criticized.

lol

Where`ve you been? You`re in the wrong place if that`s what you think.Perhaps sports analysis is more your cup of tea?


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Democratic National Committee will soon air television ads in Washington and across the country attacking President Bush's economic and budget policies.
"We believe this is a defining moment for President Bush," said DNC Chairman Terry McAullife. "The bills for Bush's irresponsible fiscal policies are coming due. We are determined to take every measure to ensure that the American people know what is at stake in the upcoming budget battle."
Bob Shrum, a chief strategist for Gore 2000, developed the TV spots, which will run on Washington, D.C., cable stations and in "a few" cities around the country.
"It's a modest campaign," said DNC spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri. Democrats will stage protests in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on Monday and in Independence, Missouri, on Tuesday. The president is traveling to Milwaukee to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention. He travels to Independence, birthplace of President Harry Truman, to push his budget and Medicare and Social Security reform.
The TV spots will accuse Bush of tapping into the Medicare trust fund and coming dangerously close to touching the Social Security surplus, Palmieri said. Democrats argue that the Bush tax cut and a sluggish economy have gobbled up billions in projected surpluses. "

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/20/2009 9:02:39 AM >


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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 9:00:27 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


It looks to me like that bad 'ol Democrat party needs to change. There should be a Fairness Doctrine forcing Kieth Overmann to share his airtime with Ann Coulter, and those mean partisan Democrats should be forced to allow Republicans to write half of the legislation that passes into law.

Then and only then would everything be fair and perfectly nonpartisan...




Not to worry,Rush will aways have the right to abuse the 1st Amendment and practice socio-political pornography.

You needed ever have to think for yourself.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 9:53:36 AM   
MasterShake69


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lets see if i remember right.  It was just a small percentage that was optional for people to place in a limited amount of stocks.   the number 3% sticks in my head maybe its 30% but i dont think it was that high. The idea was originally by Joe Lieberman which bush copied.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

And if they had listened and had been a little more open minded to listening to their critics,maybe we wouldn`t be in this financial mess.Yes?

Thank GOD we swatted them back from "privatizing" Social Security(ie,giving alllll that SS money to wallstreet crooks).

Allllll that money would have been sucked down a drain as well,and then where would we be with millions more people made broke?

Aside of the fact that the criticisms were correct and valid,what`s your point?

That policies shouldn`t be criticized.

lol

Where`ve you been? You`re in the wrong place if that`s what you think.Perhaps sports analysis is more your cup of tea?


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Democratic National Committee will soon air television ads in Washington and across the country attacking President Bush's economic and budget policies.
"We believe this is a defining moment for President Bush," said DNC Chairman Terry McAullife. "The bills for Bush's irresponsible fiscal policies are coming due. We are determined to take every measure to ensure that the American people know what is at stake in the upcoming budget battle."
Bob Shrum, a chief strategist for Gore 2000, developed the TV spots, which will run on Washington, D.C., cable stations and in "a few" cities around the country.
"It's a modest campaign," said DNC spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri. Democrats will stage protests in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on Monday and in Independence, Missouri, on Tuesday. The president is traveling to Milwaukee to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention. He travels to Independence, birthplace of President Harry Truman, to push his budget and Medicare and Social Security reform.
The TV spots will accuse Bush of tapping into the Medicare trust fund and coming dangerously close to touching the Social Security surplus, Palmieri said. Democrats argue that the Bush tax cut and a sluggish economy have gobbled up billions in projected surpluses. "

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 9:58:24 AM   
Owner59


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If I were a conservative(looking to look good) I would not bring up Joe Lieberman.

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 10:04:34 AM   
MasterShake69


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actually right now with stocks so low it would be about the best time to "privatizing" Social Security ;)

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RE: Does the Republican party need to change? - 2/20/2009 10:19:00 AM   
MasterShake69


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oh heres the numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_(United_States)


  • Plan I: Up to two percent of taxable wages could be diverted from FICA and voluntarily placed by workers into private accounts for investment in stocks, bonds, and/or mutual funds.
  • Plan II: Up to four percent of taxable wages, up to a maximum of $1000, could be diverted from FICA and voluntarily placed by workers into private accounts for investment.
  • Plan III: One percent of wages on top of FICA, and 2.5% diverted from FICA up to a maximum of $1000, could be voluntarily placed by workers into private accounts for investment. [22]
On February 2, 2005, Bush made Social Security a prominent theme of his State of the Union Address. In this speech, which sparked the debate, it was Plan II of CSSS's report that Bush outlined as the starting point for changes in Social Security. He outlined, in general terms, a proposal based on partial privatization. After a phase-in period, workers currently less than 55 years old would have the option to set aside four percentage points of their payroll taxes in individual accounts that could be invested in the private sector, in "a conservative mix of bonds and stock funds". Workers making such a choice might receive larger or smaller benefits than if they had not done so

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