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"Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 12:18:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


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I know I'm going to take some heat for this .... but what the hell. 

I like animals.  Perhaps even more importantly, I respect animals, especially the pets that we humans have adopted and adapted throughout our history.

Dogs are pack animals whose social instincts have allowed them to be adopted into the human cultural mix, and who we often value as much or more than our relations with other humans.  As well, we often identify with them as if they are human.

How many men have a problem with neutering a strong, "masculine" dog of theirs?  Yeah, I know, rationally it's often the right thing to do, but I dare say that few men who love their dog don't have at least a tinge in their nether regions when they contemplate the action, and the effects on the life of their beloved pet.

This thread is about my particular mindset and (perhaps irrational) belief of how to handle "excess" animals when the time comes reduce your relationship with a pet, or at least a pet dog.

For most of my later life I've lived in a rural setting. 

Up until a couple of years ago, I lived in a house in farming country, in which my nearest neighbor was at least 1/4 mile away, and the nearest store at least 6 miles away.  Lots of fields of grain, deer crossing the roads, and late snow removal.

It was also a place in which many pet dogs would find as the end of the road from their previous owners.

In the approximate 15 years that I lived in that house, there were times in which my family had in excess of 20 dogs.  Generally, we had at the very least 6 or 7.  Over the years, I suspect that we had a total of several hundred individual dogs that I supported, and a sum total of 3 that I actually had sought out for ownership, or purchased.

The costs to feed them, the costs to get them the medical care that they needed, and the cost to house and otherwise care for them was not insufficient.

We never had a problem with uninvited human guest, however. 

Unfortunately, from time to time we had to "thin the pack".  If a dog was sick beyond care, we'd take them to the vet to be put down.  If they were dangerous, or could not be trained to respect the physical integrity of the children, they were put down locally (usually with a 9 mm).  Some wondered off, never to be seen again.  Some found other homes.

But sometimes the sheer numbers demanded a thinning greater than any of the reasons above could provide.

What to do? 

Occasionally I would take an otherwise healthy animal and take them far enough away so that they couldn't find their way back and drop them off.

My reasoning is that those particular animals had done nothing to deserve the death penalty.  If they were a danger to me, mine or the public, I assumed my responsibility and dealt with them appropriately.

If I had sought them out for ownership, then again, they were totally my responsibility, and I would find them a new owner, have them put down by the vet, or kept them until death.

Occasionally my SO at the time would call the local dog catcher who charged $20 per visit and $20 per animals, to come and take them away where they would go to the local "shelter" for two weeks and then be euthanasized.

But most of the time the dogs were harmless, prior pets, lovable in their own right, and I respected them enough not to put them to death. If I could find no one to accept responsibility for them, I'd "drop them off".

Some (many, I dare say) see this as being somehow "cruel".  I disagree, and believe it is cruel and unfeeling to simply condemn an otherwise healthy and lovable animals to extinction without chance of reprieve.  By taking them out, and leaving them to chance and the kindness of strangers I believe that I at least gave them a chance at life, and a chance at happiness, even if the occasional cost was struggle and death.

That's all I've asked for in my life: a chance.  I see extending the same possibility to these animals as the moral and respectful thing to do.

What are your thoughts?

Firm


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 12:32:57 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I respect animals, especially the pets that we humans have adopted and adapted throughout our history.

quote:


Occasionally I would take an otherwise healthy animal and take them far enough away so that they couldn't find their way back and drop them off.

My reasoning is that those particular animals had done nothing to deserve the death penalty.  If they were a danger to me, mine or the public, I assumed my responsibility and dealt with them appropriately.

If I had sought them out for ownership, then again, they were totally my responsibility, and I would find them a new owner, have them put down by the vet, or kept them until death.

Neglect. You speak of adapting them to the human way of life and the fact they are pack animals and then you leave them alone to fend for themselves without your company or the means to look after themselves. Maybe their survival instinct will kick in but I think it unlikely they will hunt after being adapted as you put it, they will also be lonely have you never looked in a dogs eyes, in a kennel for abandoned dogs, and seen that?
 
Also I'm a bit confused by you saying you didn't ask for these animals, where did they come from initially? 
 
You are only human, they’ve done far worse things.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 2/21/2009 12:35:56 PM >


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 12:37:36 PM   
TreasureKY


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Here it is, for those who find it hard to believe that I don't always agree with everything Firm says or believes....

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Some (many, I dare say) see this as being somehow "cruel".  I disagree, and believe it is cruel and unfeeling to simply condemn an otherwise healthy and lovable animals to extinction without chance of reprieve.  By taking them out, and leaving them to chance and the kindness of strangers I believe that I at least gave them a chance at life, and a chance at happiness, even if the occasional cost was struggle and death.


Count me as one of the many.

While I love and respect dogs (and other animals, domestic and wild), I don't equate them with humans on all levels.  Where I believe an unwanted child deserves a chance at life and happiness, even if it's also a chance for misfortune and misery, I don't believe our position in this world affords us the same ability to abdicate our responsibility over animals that we've domesticated.

I consider a clean and painless death to be preferable to simply dropping off a dog to be someone else's responsibility or leaving them to starve... or worse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It was also a place in which many pet dogs would find as the end of the road from their previous owners.


Others passed their problems off on you, and you would perpetuate the problem.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 12:40:48 PM   
aravain


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My thoughts... are that you're doing (probably) the most 'right' thing you can without giving a dog a definite death sentence.

(other than that, I've never had a twinge when thinking about/getting a dog neutered or spayed, though :P)

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 12:57:32 PM   
LaTigresse


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Unless a dog is a purebred and a prime example of it's breed worthy to breed more of it's kind, it should be spayed or neutered.

I live on a farm that is a common dropping point for unwanteds. I didn't ask for them, if I wanted them I would adopt one from the shelter. The shelters have more than enough unwanteds. I think the people that dump animals are cowards. Dumping their unwanted, inconvient problems, off on others. If they have an animal they don't want they should take them to the shelter.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:03:23 PM   
kiyari


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Just saw this thread, and have yet to read through the various replies.

My initial and genuinely-felt contribution is this:

Life is transient. We all die.

Something quick and thusly relatively painless is a serious grace.

...now, on to reading thru this thread...

Edited to Add:

Firm... when you take them far away and drop them off, you are making them someone else's problem.

That is Wrong.

< Message edited by kiyari -- 2/21/2009 1:06:41 PM >


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:05:03 PM   
Vendaval


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Fast Reply - At least in a shelter a domestic animal has food, water and protection from cars and wild animals.  And for the many that are euthanised it is a quick death rather than one from poisoning, starvation or injuries.  BTW, we recently had a major bust of a cock-fighting ring in this area so the current domestic animals needing homes are fighting cocks and their breeding hens & chicks, more than 2,000 of them.



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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:09:13 PM   
kiyari


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Alas, most shelters are so overwhelmed, that none (in my experience) EVER have space to take in ANY.

Cruel fact of 'life'.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:12:11 PM   
Vendaval


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kiyari,
 
It depends more on the area and the funding available from what I can tell.  The Human Society Shelter here has a high rate of success stories and a low rate of euthanasia.  But with the recession more animals are being dumped either at shelters or in rural areas and now we are entering the spring time birthing season so that will only add to the over-population problems.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:13:41 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Also I'm a bit confused by you saying you didn't ask for these animals, where did they come from initially? 
 


From the OP:
It was also a place in which many pet dogs would find as the end of the road from their previous owners.
Firm



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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:14:21 PM   
Owner59


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Todays dogs(and cats) are as connected to their ancestors(and their ways) no more than we are connected to cave men and their ways.Not by much.

We shouldn`t make assumption about them now, based on myths and hunches about how they lived long ago.

Today is today,and domesticated animals don`t stand much of a chance on their own.

Most domestic animals(farm and pets) don`t have the ability to survive,well.Well, being the operative word.Feral dogs and cats live short,unhealthy,miserable lives,especially in the north where things outside,freeze.

Thinking a dog can survive on it`s own is the lamest excuse I know for droping it by the road side.It`s incredibly selfish,cowardly and cruel,as well.



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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:16:45 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unless a dog is a purebred and a prime example of it's breed worthy to breed more of it's kind, it should be spayed or neutered.


I don't know so much about judging a pet for it's breedworthiness, but I feel that anyone who doesn't spay or neuter their pets, should be held responsible for the offspring.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:29:02 PM   
kiyari


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I am an animal-lover, and it hurts the reality of how many beloved pets are being dumped due to this economy.

I would love to give them all loving homes, but I am (in my current situation) not permitted to have even one.

For any reading this thread who have the right to do as you please, perhaps consider fostering?

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:37:02 PM   
kiyari


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Firm: Seriously, it IS 'a guy thing'.

You are hardly alone in your squeamishness regarding depriving any other creature of it's "balls 'n tackle".

I am fair certain, that neutered domesticated critters, will not be holding any grudges on that account.

Now, that being said... have you been dropping off UN-NEUTERED/SPAYED beastlets?!?!?

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:48:05 PM   
kdsub


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I would call the dog catcher to remove a wild dog from your property... you do not need to claim it as yours.. that is why we pay taxes... No charge then.

All but one of my dogs through the years have been adopted from a shelter and I believe that is the best way to go with strays. They do have a chance at a really good life there and if not a painless end as apposed to starvation and abuse.

Butch

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:48:29 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

Firm: Seriously, it IS 'a guy thing'.

You are hardly alone in your squeamishness regarding depriving any other creature of it's "balls 'n tackle".

I am fair certain, that neutered domesticated critters, will not be holding any grudges on that account.


I realize.  I've "done my duty" with respect to many animals and their lack of reproductive rights.

It's less expensive for the males (the parts are just "hanging around" and relatively easy to ... uh ... damage), but the female parts require in excess of $100 per animals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

Now, that being said... have you been dropping off UN-NEUTERED/SPAYED beastlets?!?!?


If I had accepted responsibility for them to the extent that I neutered or spayed them, then I had accepted full responsibility.

I never did a "reach around" on the ones I didn't accept responsibility for, so I don't know the answer to your question.

Firm


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:49:42 PM   
came4U


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I see what you are gettin' at.

Althought I don't advocate Old Yeller-ering any old pooch or princess just because they are a pain in the ass in any form, they are still animals that over time have been bred to be domesticated (and not some dire mistakes along the way by irresponsible so-called breeders).

For the most part, some have adapted to their genetic mutations/crossbreedings to be what they are today...(as some humans have also) but there are others that just don't ever adapt.

We aren't peas, we can make a Punnett Square for peas, we cannot possibly predict what will happen if a dog is 9% bernard, 7% poodle and the rest of the genetic pool is 'possibly' terrier.  Who even knows if any of many breeder is telling the truth?  We do know that breeders 400 years ago lied, therefore, there is no known common and distinct common behavioural issue that is 'predictable'.

If you did the best you could, by taking in a domesticated animal, that CANNOT be transfered elsewhere for a life of freedom and happiness without hurting any other of his own or other species...go for it.

Otherwise, you gotta do what ya gotta do.

btw, I don't advocate spade and neutering either,...I allow my pets to breed naturally at will or I take the responsibility of the temperment or smells that occur.  Artificial removal of reproduction organs is just one of my ummm pet-peeves. lol


< Message edited by came4U -- 2/21/2009 1:51:03 PM >

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:53:52 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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What's most likely going to happen to those animals you so "lovingly dropped off into the wild" Is that they're going to starve and become mangy and flea bitten, since there's not really very many sources of food out there, and the "human kindness" you think they will find, is far and few between. Most people don't give a flying fuck about helping out a stray running loose, they';d just rather shoo it away or call animal control.  This idealistic and beautiful out come you imagine happening in reality most likely never happens, and they end up becoming road kill, another bigger badder animals dinner, or they starve to death and die of the elements.

To me it's not respectful and kind to take an animal that has learned to rely on humans for their care and "dropping them off" somewhere to fend for themselves.

And not all animals sent to animal shelter will be killed automatically, A large portion might, because the over poulation and irresponcible humans actions,  but animals are given an evaluation and behavior tests and if they pass those they're put up for adoption,, and at least in this shelter where I volunterred, There wasn't a dog in there who stayed more than a week, once the public had a chance to grab them.

This business of saing they will automatically die 100 percent no chance, if you take them to a shelter is hogswash and a straw dog. Will all of them be adopted? no, will they have some chance of adoption if they pass behavior evaluations? Yes. They will. It's not a 100 percent chance of death.



quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Some (many, I dare say) see this as being somehow "cruel".  I disagree, and believe it is cruel and unfeeling to simply condemn an otherwise healthy and lovable animals to extinction without chance of reprieve.  By taking them out, and leaving them to chance and the kindness of strangers I believe that I at least gave them a chance at life, and a chance at happiness, even if the occasional cost was struggle and death.

That's all I've asked for in my life: a chance.  I see extending the same possibility to these animals as the moral and respectful thing to do.

What are your thoughts?

Firm


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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 1:58:59 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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By the way From what I understand animal dumping is considered animal abuse, and if you're ever caught doing that you will be arrested or fined seriously.

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RE: "Dropping off" an animal ... - 2/21/2009 2:21:51 PM   
kiyari


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Fast Reply (and so, to none in particular, though Firm stands apart)

If you find a sufficiently 'rural' area to dump these critters... you may be making problems for 'the farm community'.

Farmers have to 'put down' lost pets, who have resorted to ravenging flocks et all.

Firm: You are a domly. Take ownership of what you have been given to deal with.

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