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Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 2:53:22 PM

Leathersandals

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline

Hello all,

I was wondering the other day why there seems to be a huge overlap in bondage (restraints/whips) and the idea of domination and submission.

I understand there is a historical element that has to do with slavery or maybe the idea of keeping a pet, but I don't think this is necessarily true for everyone.

I personally enjoy the D/s side of it (you telling someone what to do, and them doing it -yes that was oversimplified) more than I do the restraints and punishment side. But I have spoken to people who only really like one or the other, which is what got me wondering why is there an overlap? You can dominate someone without putting them in handcuffs, and you can tie someone up without dominating them so why are they so closely associated?

I don't think there is a "right" answer to this but I would just like hear everyone's opinion as to what i means to them, and why it may or may not overlap.

Post #: 1

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 3:11:23 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Yes you can have a D/s relationship without anything to do with BDSM.
How many times have I said that lol.
However BDSM makes the relationship more D/s.
If your tied up then you can't really do much to stop me doing what I want to do to you now can you? So you can consent to something in principal and not be allowed to get cold feet. If you trust me enough that is.
The punishment or Discipline is part of a consensual D/s relationship. A sub gives his/her Dominant permission to discipline them if they do not do what they are told.
Makes relationships more straightforward. Or at least that's the theory lol.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 2

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 3:12:33 PM

SirRussellP

Posts: 107
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline

The lifestyle is huge in scope with no one person being an expert in it all. I am a bondage freak but also a Dominant. For me I can and do dominate others in business and social settings, I can dominate my slave from several hundred miles away.

The Dominance comes naturally to me so isn't nearly as much of a thrill as putting my cuffs on her. Having her at my complete mercy. That is both sexual and sensual for me. Shows her level of trust in me and her respect for me.

She need my dominance just as I need her submission and that isn't just for scenes but for day to day life. The D/s is mental in that it feeds both parties souls.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 3

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 3:12:51 PM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline

Why the overlap?

Personally i think it is because peoples proclivities are not black and white, do not follow set paths or conform to certain patterns. They encompass whatever is needed to fulfil as much of folks desires as possible, and i would say the same if the overlap being talked about were kink and vanilla in origin, people find satisfaction in convoluted ways!

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pink...
Master Andy's emotion...

From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 4

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 4:05:23 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

I am on the bondage and restraints side of the fence. I do it because I enjoy it. I don't over analyze it and could not explain it well if I had to any more than I can explain why I breathe.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 5

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 4:14:13 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

For many, bondage helps deepen the sense of dominance or submission within a scene. S/m practices are another thing altogether. It can serve a similar purpose, but gets quite a bit more murky. For example, the dominant who enjoys feral play and the physical marks that can come from it isn't necessarily submitting to pain play, but is still deriving a kick from overpowering the submissive.

I think it has most to do with a lumping of all sexual kinks into one bowl. It is easier just to lump us all together than to recognize the vast array of differences and individual variety that human being can exhibit.

lovingpet

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 6

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 5:22:32 PM

graceadieu

Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I think if you're already into one "alternative" thing, you're less inhibited and more willing to try others - which I think also explains the overlap between poly and D/s/BDSM.

Also, speaking personally, the feeling of helplessness and vulnerability that bondage can evoke tie in really nicely with my submission.

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 7

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 5:29:23 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

Hmm, a lot of people do find BDSM to be a good way to express their D/s connection, but it could just be that a lot of people are drawn to both.

There is a high correlation between an interest in computers, Science Fiction conventions, Renaissance Faires, polyamory, BDSM, D/s, being Pagan, and Gothic/Industrial clubbing. Not everyone who is into one of those things are into all of them, but most events of any one of those sorts *tends* to have a high number of people who are into at least one of the other interests.

(in reply to graceadieu)

Post #: 8

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 5:48:06 PM

Knite064

Posts: 169
Joined: 1/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leathersandals

Hello all,

I was wondering the other day why there seems to be a huge overlap in bondage (restraints/whips) and the idea of domination and submission.

I understand there is a historical element that has to do with slavery or maybe the idea of keeping a pet, but I don't think this is necessarily true for everyone.

I personally enjoy the D/s side of it (you telling someone what to do, and them doing it -yes that was oversimplified) more than I do the restraints and punishment side. But I have spoken to people who only really like one or the other, which is what got me wondering why is there an overlap? You can dominate someone without putting them in handcuffs, and you can tie someone up without dominating them so why are they so closely associated?

I don't think there is a "right" answer to this but I would just like hear everyone's opinion as to what i means to them, and why it may or may not overlap.

Handcuffs to use your example for me is theatre in the bedroom that adds additional dynamic to the relationship.
One of my favoured restraints is simply placing her hands in say a cuffed position and stating the hands are to remain as if bound by cuffs which adds the wonderful dimension of the crossover of her doing as she is instructed and being restrained but denying the opportunity for the not guilty plea being used because" i could nt stop the bad man doing stuff ":) (the submssives expression of her sexual needs/wants and greed for the moment are an integral part of my kink)

So in answer to your question from my viewpoint they dont overlap but melt seamlessly into one another and nature helps the mutual dynamic of how it will be between us as we grow.

It may be relevent that i have no interest in a bdsm relationship unless there is deep mutual feelings attached so the mental restaints develop in play as we learn about each other so i cant answer your question from a casual play perspective.

Be well

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 9

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 6:26:48 PM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

for many subs bondage and discipline are sexual stimulants, for many fucking and clit stim is not enough to bring around orgasms or strong enough ones to be satisfying

so they need/want the bondage/discipline for the sexual stimulation, and because these are activities that require trust it is easier to achieve within a D/s partnership

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(in reply to Knite064)

Post #: 10

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 7:42:32 PM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

Why the overlap?

Um... 'cause it's fun?
'cause it works for me and my partner(s)?
'cause we can?
'cause it helps to reinforce the roles of Dominant and submissive?
'cause it's "hot?"

Feel free to exclude the activity, (or any activity) that doesn not add to your loving relationship with each other... (We're not holding a gun to your head.*)

*unless you'd like us to... but we'll have to negotiate that... that's pretty much edge play.

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 11

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/21/2009 10:38:48 PM

devotedinSD

Posts: 91
Joined: 11/30/2008
Status: offline

Of course it is possible to live D?S without any bondage or physical punishment whatsoever. I personally love the complete loss of control incl my movement. The "art" of bondage is unimportant to me. It also helps me to let go sometimes. Anyway, it just works for me and is highly arousing (like someone said, often more than straight physical stimulation)..and for some it doesn't.

< Message edited by devotedinSD -- 2/21/2009 10:40:07 PM >

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(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 12

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 4:14:45 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

For me, it's simply a control issue. I don't want to just be dominated, i want to be subjugated and controlled as much as possible whenever possible. Bondage, especially restrictive bondage, gets me there better than almost any other technique. The D/s dynamic is stronger, more intense, and feels more real when it's enforced with chains and locks. That's pretty much it.

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(in reply to devotedinSD)

Post #: 13

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 4:25:28 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

I'm not convinced there is as much overlap as we think there is though there may very well be. To play devil's advocate...

On this site, at events, and munches we don't encounter the couple who just like a bit of "slap and tickle" and are happy with their under-the-bed restraints from Priscella's or the purple rope cuffs that I seem to have to seem in every single Adam and Eve's.

We also don't encounter the couples who have a subtle, unstated power flow in their relationships that is just there without the formality (one can argue if that's good or bad till they are blue in the face). We encounter those who are interested in enough to take some measure of time, big or small, from their lives, seek out fellow kinksters and want to talk about it or play together.

However, there is the idea that once exposed and once one becomes aware that these things that they may have thought about can be done, and done with everyone involved happy and fulfilled, they may be willing to try new things. Dabble about here and there till they find the balence that works for them.

For me, I like him in charge and I like being restrained. I also like Star Wars and chocolate cake.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 14

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 7:05:34 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leathersandals

Hello all,

I was wondering the other day why there seems to be a huge overlap in bondage (restraints/whips) and the idea of domination and submission.

I understand there is a historical element that has to do with slavery or maybe the idea of keeping a pet, but I don't think this is necessarily true for everyone.

I personally enjoy the D/s side of it (you telling someone what to do, and them doing it -yes that was oversimplified) more than I do the restraints and punishment side. But I have spoken to people who only really like one or the other, which is what got me wondering why is there an overlap? You can dominate someone without putting them in handcuffs, and you can tie someone up without dominating them so why are they so closely associated?

I don't think there is a "right" answer to this but I would just like hear everyone's opinion as to what i means to them, and why it may or may not overlap.

I actually do think there is a right answer to this, socio-historically speaking in the US.

Stonewall, Sexual freedom, the development of a political activism, the decision to start education/community identity, the HUGE growth of the previously VERY underground people, the need for inclusion to make room and community for those that want education and community and sexual freedom, (all this concurrent with the Pan sexual and Poly movements), and poof! We went from scattered individuals and small groups to playspaces, Festish Flea Markets, and now we have the umbrella term BDSM. It is rather like the umbrella term "homosexual".

the term is meaningless as a descriptive of the individuals, but descriptive of the time and place when people came together and started to fight for their right socially to have relations that are seen by some as weird. BDSM, i think, won out over KINK because the it is just letters, an acronym that no one can really define or describe in anything less than a book, and acronyms were popular at the time. Having the BD before the SM softens and make more socially acceptable the SM part, which is where the sexual freedom etc movement started. Also Kink already had a meaning in people's heads so it would kick in an automatic emtional response, where BDSM would make people ask "what?"

There are TONS of people that are still pissed about including the d/s crowd into the SM world, and vice versa. And just get a bondage purist drunk then ask them what they think about the SM or d/s crowd. While you are at it, get a "homosexual" tipsy and see just how adament they *male or female* they are about how making the umbrealla that big means that they, the tipsy person, now have to interact wtih people that they would rather feed to pyranahs.

Why is there cross over between the totally unrelated parts of BDSM? because there is safety in numbers and in being openly mysterious. The fact that some people enjoy, embrace, dabble, oggle, or accept more than one or two aspects AND implicitily include kink and fetish under that umbrealla is because it gives you a bigger dating pool, friend pool, some hidden undercurrent of us against them, and again, safety in numbers.

But that is just what i have picked up from my life in a world where TES and Janus started and fought and sued and educated and outreached and so on for what almost 40 years now.

edited cuz i haven't slept much and spelling is a real challenge right now

< Message edited by feydeplume -- 2/22/2009 7:06:39 AM >

_____________________________

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If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 15

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 7:41:47 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

For me, to begin with, bondage intensified my submission. I was consenting to be made helpless, vulnerable and open to anything that my Sir wanted to do.

Now, it is window dressing for our play - it is more submissive for me to NOT move from where he has placed me - without restraints, than if i was tied down within an inch of my life. That isn't to say that i no longer enjoy bondage, but my submission is more overt when bondage isn't used when playing. He knows - and i know - that he can literally do just about anything he wants without me moving away. Mental bondage is way more submissive for me than physical.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 16

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 10:06:12 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

Why the overlap? Why not? Is this not about what fulfills people, makes them happy, satisfies them on any number of levels? If it does it for you, then do it. Neither is right or wrong, neither is better or worse, there is no one true way no matter who says there is. If strictly D/s or M/s with no bondage or play is what floats your boat then more power to ya! Just don't try telling those who like just play or a mix of D/s and play that they are wrong or you are better than they are. You're (general you btw) not.

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(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 17

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 10:08:01 AM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline

I feel there is a huge overlap betwen bondage and DS. In a stritcly DS only relationship how would a sub be reprimanded for breaking the rules? Is it just corner time or does the Dom(me) pull out the paddle or whip? Obviously it goes both ways. But I would guess it goes to the paddle/whip more often than just corner time or a stern look.

Personally I love the intermix of bondage with domination and submission. One think I like in particular is that if am being punished for one reason or another (play or real), when bound I can resist physcially with all my might yet I have no fear of hurting my Domme. This tends to make the play much more intense both physically and mentally for me.

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Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 18

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 10:45:00 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

Even though I'm perhaps more interested in D/s, I use "bdsm" as a generic shorthand term a lot because it is more familiar.

Thus, anything kinky or out of the normal range sometimes falls under the umbrella of "bdsm" (unless I'm trying to refer to something in a more specific way.)

Sloppy language, I know.

(in reply to Leathersandals)

Post #: 19

RE: Bondage and D/s why the overlap? - 2/22/2009 11:18:53 AM

subbisherri

Posts: 109
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline

Perhaps some begin with bondage and sm as a physically pleasing addition to their sex life, and then find an affinity for ds? I know that's how it's progressing for me.

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 20

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