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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:45:13 AM

MasterShake69

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In order to believe in a politicians lies you must have blind faith without proof. Just look at Obama supporters ;)
[/quote]

We were talking about this just the other day: in America you have to be a Christian if you have political ambitions - how many Jews in government? How many Muslims? But more to the point: how many atheists or agnostics? Lack of belief appears to be highly suspicious: why is that?
[/quote]

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Post #: 21

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:47:32 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
If he went to church and lied about his faith for sheer political motives wouldn't that also make you question his honesty

No. It would confirm that the person in question is a politician. But I repeat that in my mind, it's terribly sad that so much of the electorate seems to demand that political leaders be christian. We saw what 'christianity' meant for the politician in chief this last presidency

.

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:47:46 AM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Name one Democratic president or DNC presidential nominee who didn't or doesn't regularly attend church services.

Example - Barack claims to be a believer, "brother".

So are you saying the man is a total moron?

No, just that he - like every Other politician - did his best to appeal to the least common denominator amongst US citizenry. Whether they are or aren't religous of a given bent, or they're a complete atheist - politicians are painfully aware of the fact that they need the vote of that percentage who Strongly Believes that one particular book or another is "Gawd's Werd" and we'll all fry for eternity if we don't strictly believe it as absolute truth.

So you are saying that the liberals to whom Obama most appeals are the least common denominator amongs the citizenry? Gosh.. I may actually agree with you on something...

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Post #: 23

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:48:13 AM

SilverMark

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perhaps as lame a comment as I have seen made in awhile....I applaud your attempt at wit, but a bit weak...

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:49:27 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

In order to believe in a politicians lies you must have blind faith without proof. Just look at Obama supporters ;)

quote:

We were talking about this just the other day: in America you have to be a Christian if you have political ambitions - how many Jews in government? How many Muslims? But more to the point: how many atheists or agnostics? Lack of belief appears to be highly suspicious: why is that?

(You need to work at the quote function.)

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 2/23/2009 11:50:01 AM >

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 11:52:26 AM

MasterShake69

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so a devout Catholic cant be a scientist ;) Thats because they cant learn anything else?

well a few hundred years ago many scientists were Catholic and practiced their faith like galileo galilee.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

fr

Molecules are really small, well damn I never thought I would learn so much !

I think as one grows, with a mind, but unfilled with knowledge, it looks for answers. Religion is one place to find them. Might not be the right answers, but answers noinetheless.

Populace wise, look at the people who find religion in later life. Drug addicts, alcoholics, abusive types and so forth. Abusive behavior, abuse of drugs, all that is childish behavior, some of us grow out of it, others need a leg up. Religion provides that.

It seems however, that because by nature religion is a dogma, they cease to learn anything else, and indeed they believe that they do not need to learn anything else.

So here we are.

T

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Post #: 26

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 12:19:06 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

why would it be a moot point? For you Obama believing in God would effect you opinion regarding his intellect. If his decision making abilities were suspect wouldn't that effect your vote for him? If he went to church and lied about his faith for sheer political motives wouldn't that also make you question his honesty?

I didn't vote for him. I also didn't vote for McCain. I voted for a 3rd party.

To me, it is not about whether one believes or disbelieves - nor even about whether they do/don't go to church. They are POLITICIANS. IE, They Lie. Whether they lie about Religious Belief or not makes little difference to me - the sheer fact that they are professionals in politics makes me question their capacity to be honest. I take it as a Given that a Politician Will Lie - if not about this, then about something else, all of it adding up to the same thing - garnering votes via appealing to a particular section of the general population with what comes out of their mouth at any given moment.

quote:

Original: kittensol
quote:

If he went to church and lied about his faith for sheer political motives wouldn't that also make you question his honesty
No. It would confirm that the person in question is a politician. But I repeat that in my mind, it's terribly sad that so much of the electorate seems to demand that political leaders be christian. We saw what 'christianity' meant for the politician in chief this last presidency .

For once, kitten, you and I agree on something completely and absolutely (at least as far as this specific statement is concerned! LOL)

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 2/23/2009 12:28:06 PM >

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 1:25:40 PM

Vendaval

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HK, religion is based on faith and belief which are very subjective views and sometimes those religious values determine every choice in a persons life and sometimes the values work more as a general philosophy in living and learning and how to make decisions.

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Post #: 28

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 1:32:40 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So you believe Obama is lying when he says he is religous?

Not precisely. I believe that whether he is or isn't is a moot point. If he is - then he's likely not nearly as religious as he presents himself to the masses. If he's as religious as he presents himself - then he's not nearly as smart as he presents himself, and simply has really good staff to bring up his appeal to the Rest of the population.

The point being - every politician Needs those votes, and Knows they need those votes - and is going to say what they think they need to say in order to Get those votes, whether it's true or not. Then again - politicians telling the truth is a myth and fairy tale that has long been a standing joke.

I see, so it's ok that he is lying because they all do it. Or maybe he is not lying and just stupid. So tell me, do you consider all religous people to be stupid or just the ones in office?

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 2:34:07 PM

Vendaval

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I think it is based both on tradition and the ideal that religious people have higher morals and are less likely to be dishonest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
We were talking about this just the other day: in America you have to be a Christian if you have political ambitions - how many Jews in government? How many Muslims? But more to the point: how many atheists or agnostics? Lack of belief appears to be highly suspicious: why is that?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 30

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 2:48:52 PM

FirmhandKY

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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

"Is it more logical to be a Christian? Is religion the natural choice of a smart person familiar with more of the evidence? Not according to a broad consensus of studies on IQ and religiosity. These studies have consistently found that the lower the IQ score, the more likely a person is to be religious"
http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

Even worse,
"Half of all Americans believe they are protected by guardian angels, one-fifth say they've heard God speak to them, one-quarter say they have witnessed miraculous healings, 16 percent say they've received one and 8 percent say they pray in tongues, according to a survey released Thursday by Baylor University."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/19/half-of-americans-believe-in-angels/

And, to top things off:
"Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?_r=5

Explain to me why Conservatives think cutting funds for education is "cutting out pork"? Oh, wait, they'll gladly fund idiotic pseudo-science like "Intelligent Design" but when it comes to real knowledge, they rant about taxes and Teacher's Unions and anything other than their own anti-knowledge bias, which seems to go hand-in-hand with religious fundamentalism of the Xtian variety.

Unbelievable. Our "Golden Age" of Education came right after Sputnik.

AS said by UPSG, it's easy (and common) to manipulate information and rhetoric to slant a presentation to present your own beliefs in the most positive light, and to present what you consider an antagonistic belief system in a negative light.

Science is a belief system, that is often adversarial to religious belief (at least in the minds of many atheists of a certain political persuasion).

Depending on the religion, it may or may not be adversarial to "science". Christianity made it's peace with science centuries ago, despite some people on both sides who wish to stir up animosity and trouble (the OP for example).

The intent of the OP isn't really to shed any light on anything - it's simply to insult the people who hold religious beliefs.

Sometimes, people show their own inner hatred and prejudices when they post. I think this is the case here.

Firm

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 2:50:58 PM

popeye1250

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"Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?_r=5

Thank God everyone doesn't live in Cambridge, Mass or Bezerkley, Calif.

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 3:01:43 PM

Sanity

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So do you believe that W was sincere in his Christian beliefs, and that Obama is lying about his own sincerity in that regard?

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:14:36 PM

MarsBonfire

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I'm actually okay for there to be so many stupid people in the world:

It gives those of us who took the time to educate ourselves (thet means "book-lernin' to all yew rednecky, mavrick GOP'ers) to have a better shot at survival. Who's more likely to get the etter paying job? Someone like myself who can think on his feet... or some Bible thumping, I.D. taught moron who thinks the sun goes around the Earth?

You go, religion! Do everything you can to take advantage of, and control over, ignorant people everywhere! Instill in them tennants and restrictions that will keep them in their place- scared of the wrath of some non-existant supernatural entity, should they get out of line! I don't want them getting all uppity and violent while my smarter-than-they brothers and myself take the cream of humanity's crop, and head to the stars.

BTW, I'm sure the OP witheld the other statistic... the incidence of being ignorant, highly religious... and voting republican.

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Post #: 34

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:23:28 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be.

Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be.

Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious.

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Post #: 35

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:26:38 PM

Hippiekinkster

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"Science is the name given to the process by which we seek to understand the universe in terms of natural processes. Science is asking questions, then making observations and from those observations, finding the most correct answers. It is fundamentally an objective and experimental process that does not have any preconceived notion about what the answer to a given puzzle might be. It is only the process of gathering facts, generating new theories, and testing those theories against new observations that science can understand the world around us.
Science accepts that any theory must be falsifiable by further experimentation or observation; that is, if a given idea cannot be rigorously tested, it does not represent a valid scientific explanation. Furthermore, scientists accept and admit that there are things that are still unknown, undiscovered, or unexplained. Hence, science is not a belief system and it does not call upon supernatural forces. Finally, science is self-correcting in that fraud, incorrect conclusions, and faulty assumptions will in the course of continued investigation be identified and corrected."
http://www.evolutionarygenomics.com/CERT/TeachEvolution.html

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:28:50 PM

lronitulstahp

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i'm a believer, i'm educated, i'm a slut....i find none of that scary.

God hasn't given us the spirit of fear...
2Timothy 1:7

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Post #: 37

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:49:46 PM

Sanity

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You know what's really funny about this is - I'm not a believer!

It's good to see you posting lronitulstahp.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

i'm a believer, i'm educated, i'm a slut....i find none of that scary.

God hasn't given us the spirit of fear...
2Timothy 1:7

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Post #: 38

RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 4:50:58 PM

MarsBonfire

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MasterShake blithered:

so a devout Catholic cant be a scientist ;) Thats because they cant learn anything else?

well a few hundred years ago many scientists were Catholic and practiced their faith like galileo galilee.

So, how did that work out for him, MasterShake? I imagine the church just threw their arms around him and kissed him on both cheeks when he published his theories?

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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 2/23/2009 5:12:08 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

So do you believe that W was sincere in his Christian beliefs, and that Obama is lying about his own sincerity in that regard?

I believe that W was sincere in his Christian beliefs. I can all but hear his fervent prayers

God, I'm glad Daddy was able to buy my way out of serving my country in Viet Nam

and of course

Jesus, get me out of Washington before my approval rating goes any lower.

Hey..if I was a spoiled little rich kid who never earned an honest dollar in my life (obviously to the cons, running oil businesses into the ground is a better experience than being a community organizer) and I was handed the top office in the land, I'd believe in a god too.

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Post #: 40

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