aravain
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Joined: 8/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire
In fact, you make a deal with that authority to stop asking questions... (thus foresaking the greatest gift that "God" or nature has bestowed upon you: your intelligence.) ...and blindly believe whatever they tell you... you know, like gays are evil, creationisim is the only "truth" you need, or that you should strap explosives onto your body and set yourself off in a crowded area....
When/where does this happen?
I'm no fan of organized religion (of any type) but I usually see the exact opposite with devoutly religious people that belong to a church... they ask *more* questions (usually of the 'why' variety, though occasionally of others).
Re: Science vs Religious belief systems:
Science itself IS a belief system, however it is based on current and historical *FACT* and (usually) not anticipated future activity or dogma. Science is very 'here and now' while religions are usually 'then and soon' as I put it. This fact alone will make almost all scientists cringe at the idea that you have to believe in science in order to make it viable to you.
Look at it this way: It was taken for granted (very long ago) that the sun and the rest of the heavenly bodies traveled around the earth, while the earth stood completely still, in completely perfect circles. This was a belief held even by scientists. The mathematicians got to working on some observation data sets, and noticed that something weird was going on. The paths and such of the sun, and the other bodies, didn't make sense. Fast forward to later, after the works of all the great astronomers and a good number of scientists STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE that the world traveled around the sun. They didn't think there was enough evidence to prove it, despite the math supporting them. Gallileo ended up being *one* of the major reasons the sun-centric theory was accepted... not because he actually proved that the world traveled around the sun (in fact, his original data and such was very skewed, if my professor was to be believed) but because he had to *also* disprove beliefs held by scientists that the heavenly bodies were NOT perfect (sunspots, anyone?).
What this is to say... is that Science (modern for whatever time) is the BELIEF of how the world works, based upon current *understood* "facts" of reality. Take a look at how many actual scientific Laws versus Theories there are (then take a look at how many Laws should, but theoretical standards, likely not actually BE laws, but theories). These are the facts *as they're understood* and *believed to be apply* to the universe, not necessarily the end-all, be-all of society.
Science as a tool for understanding the universe creates BELIEF based on FACT (as we understand it), to reiterate.
Re: MasterShake69's ridiculous suggestion that teachers unions are to blame:
Take a moment and go back to high school, take whatever graduation test that is required to graduate and carefully read the questions.
The science portions are POORLY lacking. They DON'T ask about molecules, DNA, radiation, or geocentric astronomical theory. The ONLY thing science questions really concern is proper execution of scientific method.
This is a double-edged sword (that I won't go into), however, it means that the science teachers NEED to have a greater emphasis on the scientific method than *ACTUAL* scientific theory, scientific experiments, etc. etc.
Only in the HIGHER level classes do you *actually* learn how to DO (or how any of it was done in the past) scientific experiments. I was originally placed in basic sciences for my first year of high school, but I quickly got bumped up... the only reason? I was bored off my ass because we were doing things that I had learned in middle school! That is to say, we were going over WORD PROBLEMS involving the scientific method. From the rest of my friends in the basic courses, it *NEVER* got better (and only two years were required, though I took 4, two at honors level and two at AP).
Your suggestion that it's the teachers' fault is really insulting! It's a combined fault of the standardized tests (required for most students to GRADUATE) and curriculum built AROUND standardized tests.
I'm not saying that I have the answer, but I am saying that getting rid of teachers unions is NOT the answer (and would, in fact, have a negative affect).
That's about as far as I got (reading wise) time to run to class :P
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RE: My fellow citizens scare me... - 
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