RE: My fellow citizens scare me...

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StrangerThan -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 5:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan The truth is, everyone dies. A supporting truth to that one is that, Christians believe they have an afterlife and a place in it. A third truth in that line of reasoning is that you can't state they don't. The final truth is that no matter how smart you are, all three above apply. Incomplete, and misleading. You're mixing facts and "beliefs". And not entirely true. You CAN state that they don't have an afterlife. Your statement could not be supported by fact, but neither is their belief. The "supporting truth" you mention is simply that Christians believe something. Big deal. That belief doesn't "support" anything. Believing something doesn't make it true. I don't understand how hard this is for anyone to understand. So let's make it easy for the logically challenged. Everyone dies. True/False? Correct answer: True Christians believe they have an afterlife and a place in it. True/False? Correct answer: True There is no conclusive evidence they are wrong. True/False? Correct Answer: True No matter how smart you are, the three conditions above still exist? Correct answer: True. Now you can state they do not have an afterlife or a place in it but... that would be a belief, wouldn't it? Therefore your input would be seen as irrational since we don't want to mix truths with beliefs,. True/False? Correct answer: True. I'm not mixing anything. I'm simply telling you that your opinion that Christians are wrong and silly, is just that. It doesn't matter how many names you list or references you site, there is no conclusive evidence they are wrong in that belief. Now there's plenty to debate the age of the earth, the creation story... pick something, but there is none that counters this particular belief.... other than, drum roll, other beliefs. So what don't you understand?

DomKen -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 5:31:11 PM)
Actually you miss the major problem with what is essentially a restatement of Pascal's Wager. There are a multitude of religions and an infinite number of possible deities. Giving any of them a priori precedence over any of the others with no evidence is just monumentally silly. Therefore the logical assumption is that any deities that may exist are uninterested in being worshipped, as they would have provided some evidence of their existence, or what deities may exist are phenomenally perverse or no deities interested in being worshipped exist.

StrangerThan -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 5:44:09 PM)
Again, someone is reading more into what I said, than I said. I gave nothing priority over anything else. Insisting that simple logic is wrong for what ever reason does little more than show the disdain for them. Disdain all you want, but the logic remains sound.

aravain -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 6:23:04 PM)
I think he was responding to kdsub

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 6:33:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd One of the things I hate the most are people who do not profess to have a religion, ( athiests and the like) who think those who do have faith in something, anything are all idiots. Having faith~ what ever that may be... is not a sign of ignorance... nor lower IQ. Mine is 174 thank you very much. We are not idiots, we are not "blinded" we are not any of the moronic things people lacking faith ascribe to us. We simply put faith in something larger then ourselves. Nothing wrong or stupid in that. The first sailors put faith that they would not slip off the edge of the Earth.. no matter how many told them they would. We put faith in science. We put faith in ourselves when we get into a vehicle to drive it. Faith comes in many variety's. What also dusts my dollies are the jack asses that hide behind their faiths and use it to blundgen the rest of us who do not ascribe to that faith. ~ Again your inteligent design type folks. Evolution happened... we have proof.. move a long. Maybe it was Gods way of getting things going? Who are you to say it wasnt when we have proof of fosils and the like. So please do not color all people of faith with the same sloppy brush. Gwyn 174? Wow, you're right up there with Marilyn Vos Savant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant Very cool.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 6:38:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Again, someone is reading more into what I said, than I said. I gave nothing priority over anything else. Insisting that simple logic is wrong for what ever reason does little more than show the disdain for them. Disdain all you want, but the logic remains sound. If someone asserts there is an afterlife, they need to show some evidence. It is not incimbent upon me or anyone else to disprove the existence of an afterlife, since neither I nor anyone else is making any sort of assertion whatsoever.

kdsub -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 6:41:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub And without those absolutes science is based on beliefs You're simply wrong. Science is based on facts never on belief. Which way is it...in one post you say there are no absolutes... it another you say there are. New discoveries are never based on fact but intuition, belief based on observation or by accident. Butch

kdsub -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 7:00:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you miss the major problem with what is essentially a restatement of Pascal's Wager. There are a multitude of religions and an infinite number of possible deities. Giving any of them a priori precedence over any of the others with no evidence is just monumentally silly. Therefore the logical assumption is that any deities that may exist are uninterested in being worshipped, as they would have provided some evidence of their existence, or what deities may exist are phenomenally perverse or no deities interested in being worshipped exist. Just for the sake of discussion ...I used his wager against you here... "Perhaps we are both wrong…but think about it… I’m the only one that has a possible chance of knowing for sure. If there is only oblivion after death neither of us will know. If there is a God and heaven I will know but you will not. " I may be wrong but I think your reference about many religions was not part of his original wager...Others have thought he should have included it but he didn't. Your add-on has good reasonable points unless as he stated God may be beyond our comprehension. I guess we both just like arguing over the unknowable… I do understand all you are saying and I see its logic. But as we know logic does not always guarantee the absolute truth. Butch

Crush -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 7:08:40 PM)
Back to the OP: 01000010 01001111 01001111 00100001

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 7:09:53 PM)
ROFLOL. You got to do better then this...lol. Even assuming this criminal Barnes wasn't lying. So he excepted a bribe? What day and time was the bribe sent? In what form was it sent? He should be able to prove that ...right ;) Now the Reality...this is just a liberal lie. Why would a democrat help a republican especially this one???? Also with this guys history he lacks any credibility. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=64D41A26-1735-4121-9D9D-1C5366ABEEFB Ben Barnes: John Kerry’s Unbelievable Last-Ditch Weapon By Lowell Ponte FrontPageMagazine.com \| Wednesday, September 08, 2004 "THE LAST SMEAR,” THE DOOMSDAY WEAPON that John F. Kerry’s sinking campaign desperately hopes can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, is ready and is scheduled to be launched against President George W. Bush on Wednesday night, September 8, on CBS’ weeknight version of “60 Minutes.” This bomb is an already-taped Dan Rather interview with former Texas Lt. Governor Ben Barnes in which Barnes will hint, and deceptive CBS editing will strongly imply, that during the Vietnam War the Bush family pressured him to use politics to get a young George W. Bush into the Texas Air National Guard. President Lyndon B. Johnson compared the young political wunderkind to Thomas Jefferson and predicted that Ben Barnes would be the next Texan elected President. The leftwing Texas Monthly called Barnes the “golden boy” of Texas politics. But “after he was involved in a bribery and stock fraud scandal in the early 1970s,” wrote leftwing Mother Jones Magazine, Barnes “never held office again. He was involved with a number of banks and thrifts that were mentioned during the S&L crisis, and forced into bankruptcy when the Texas thrift industry cratered in the late 1980s.” quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 How did daddy buy him out of vietnam? who did daddy send the money to? Former Lt. Governor of Texas Admits Getting Bush into Texas Air ...Aug 28, 2004 Ben Barnes, former lieutenant governor of Texas, has expressed his regret at helping the sons of wealthy families, including GWB, get admitted to the Texas Air National Guard in 1968. I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and Im not necessarily proud of that, but I did it, Barnes said in the 45-second video, which was recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor. He said he became ashamed after walking through the Vietnam Memorial and looking at the names of people who died.

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 7:12:56 PM)
the answer is...YES it is. quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 Is it a description of God or Dark Matter? Is Dark Matter the God of astronomy and cosmology?? http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Science is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Atheism is NOT a belief system, no matter how much some of you want it to be. Don't mistake being a member of a church, or being a Jesuit, with being religious. Sounds like excellent questions for you to answer. Hop to it, seeker of knowledge.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 7:16:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: I just finished the Dalai Lama's "The Universe in a Grain of Sand: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality" An amazing read. The Dalai Lama is personal friends with the world's leading Physicists. Buddhist philosphy dovetails uncannily with physics (and my own "spirituality" or Cosmology, whatever term you prefer). The Dalai Lama is a fraud, and he has fooled all the limousine liberals into buying into his bullshit. The Free Tibet crowd never looks back at the theocratic rule of the Lamas prior to Chinese rule. Feudalism, chattel slavery, poverty, near universal illiteracy, and brutality was common and rife. Fuck the Dalai Lama, he's as crooked as they come. Ah, so rather than commenting on the similarities between Buddhism and modern Physics, you attack the Dalai Lama. Okey-doke.

rulemylife -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 8:29:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 ROFLOL. You got to do better then this...lol. Even assuming this criminal Barnes wasn't lying. Whether or not he was involved in any wrongdoing doesn't change what he said happened. Did he have any reason to lie about it? Just as a side note, Air Guard slots are incredibly hard to attain, even in peacetime. They were even more difficult to attain during the Vietnam War when they were an "out" to serving active combat duty. Yet Dubya, who had no previous flight training and no aviation credentials, managed to land one of those slots. What an amazing turn of good fortune!

Sanity -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 8:47:10 PM)
What are Obama's service credentials. Here he is, doubling our military presence in Afghanistan. (How many standards?) quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Whether or not he was involved in any wrongdoing doesn't change what he said happened. Did he have any reason to lie about it? Just as a side note, Air Guard slots are incredibly hard to attain, even in peacetime. They were even more difficult to attain during the Vietnam War when they were an "out" to serving active combat duty. Yet Dubya, who had no previous flight training and no aviation credentials, managed to land one of those slots. What an amazing turn of good fortune!

MasterShake69 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 8:55:19 PM)
If he was an up and coming star of the Dem party why would he help a republican rival’s son? That just doesn’t happen quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: MasterShake69 ROFLOL. You got to do better then this...lol. Even assuming this criminal Barnes wasn't lying. Whether or not he was involved in any wrongdoing doesn't change what he said happened. Did he have any reason to lie about it? Just as a side note, Air Guard slots are incredibly hard to attain, even in peacetime. They were even more difficult to attain during the Vietnam War when they were an "out" to serving active combat duty. Yet Dubya, who had no previous flight training and no aviation credentials, managed to land one of those slots. What an amazing turn of good fortune!

Bella1965 -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 8:56:09 PM)
G'evening all: (Fast Reply) What really scares me? All these people with internet access! Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

DomKen -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 9:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Again, someone is reading more into what I said, than I said. I gave nothing priority over anything else. Insisting that simple logic is wrong for what ever reason does little more than show the disdain for them. Disdain all you want, but the logic remains sound. Then you need to get busy worshipping the various gods you are offending every second of every day. Tomorrow is Odin's holy day and has some rather involved rituals related to it that you should be preparing for. However it is also the holy day of dozens of other religions all with required rituals. Realistically you cannot perform them all and with zero evidence to indicate which one is correct you are giving a priori precedence to one or more for no good reason which is completely illogical.

rulemylife -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 9:07:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What are Obama's service credentials. Here he is, doubling our military presence in Afghanistan. And so you were opposing the war in Iraq then? You must have been, since you are now opposing a heightened effort in Afghanistan. You may recall Afghanistan, although the conservative blogs and Faux News like to ignore it. It was where the people that attacked us on 9/11 trained and lived, courtesy of the ruling Taliban. In other words, just to simplify, this was the source of our problem, not Iraq. The Taliban is no longer in power but still controls vast areas of the country, and as you may have seen recently, is now in control of major areas of Pakistan. Not to mention Osama Bin -Laden is still free to wage war on us (so much for Bush's dead or alive promise, huh?), as well as Mullah Omar.

DomKen -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 9:08:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you miss the major problem with what is essentially a restatement of Pascal's Wager. There are a multitude of religions and an infinite number of possible deities. Giving any of them a priori precedence over any of the others with no evidence is just monumentally silly. Therefore the logical assumption is that any deities that may exist are uninterested in being worshipped, as they would have provided some evidence of their existence, or what deities may exist are phenomenally perverse or no deities interested in being worshipped exist. Just for the sake of discussion ...I used his wager against you here... "Perhaps we are both wrong…but think about it… I’m the only one that has a possible chance of knowing for sure. If there is only oblivion after death neither of us will know. If there is a God and heaven I will know but you will not. " I may be wrong but I think your reference about many religions was not part of his original wager...Others have thought he should have included it but he didn't. Your add-on has good reasonable points unless as he stated God may be beyond our comprehension. I guess we both just like arguing over the unknowable… I do understand all you are saying and I see its logic. But as we know logic does not always guarantee the absolute truth. Butch You misunderstand the basic math of the situation as did Pascal. You actively worship a deity which by all accounts would greatly anger all the others that care about such. So if a deity exists the odds are you are angering it. OTOH I worship no deity, which by all accounts angers some but many described deities simply don't care. So at worst I'm only angering the relatively small number of posited deities that require everyone to worship them. So in the end the odds favor me not the faithful monotheist without even allowing for the fact that no evidence for any deity exists.

Sanity -> RE: My fellow citizens scare me... (2/24/2009 9:18:34 PM)
No, you misunderstand completely. You miss the point. Here, you hammer away on Bush for having served in the Guard (what an asshole, huh) - but your "One True One" Barack Obama never served in any capacity whatsoever. That's why I asked in parentheses (How many standards?) at the end of my post. When you're down to one standard, then get back to me - maybe we can communicate and discuss. But until then, I don't think so. It's just a waste of time. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What are Obama's service credentials. Here he is, doubling our military presence in Afghanistan. And so you were opposing the war in Iraq then? You must have been, since you are now opposing a heightened effort in Afghanistan. You may recall Afghanistan, although the conservative blogs and Faux News like to ignore it. It was where the people that attacked us on 9/11 trained and lived, courtesy of the ruling Taliban. In other words, just to simplify, this was the source of our problem, not Iraq. The Taliban is no longer in power but still controls vast areas of the country, and as you may have seen recently, is now in control of major areas of Pakistan. Not to mention Osama Bin -Laden is still free to wage war on us (so much for Bush's dead or alive promise, huh?), as well as Mullah Omar.

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