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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:29:17 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha

I've like sexuality.org in the past;

http://sexuality.org/authors/henkin/att36.html

I don't think it's a really great article, but it might not be a bad place to start.

Thanks! I'll bookmark that and study it as I'm able.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:37:29 PM

feydeplume

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deep degradation is a kink for some, and they might call it humiliation, but hit the dictionary and see the differences while you are doing the studying.

they used to be listed as separate things on "will you do x" lists and i am sorry to see that suck a huge range of sexuality has been condensed into one word. I mean ass play, anal sex, rimming, and *mind blanks for a second* other butt stuff all get separate "will you do x" slots now but noooooo. on most lists you are lucky if it has mind fuck AND humiliation.

*sigh*

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:39:56 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ylhtm1
Some submissives enjoy being told that they are worthless scum, sluts (usually if female), filthy dogs, etc. As a sub, I have no interest in that.

I'm with you on this. I can sort of understand the appeal of being called a slut if it's only for one person. But calling someone a loser, pig, or worm, or insulting body parts and having them lap it up and beg for more -- that I don't get.

quote:

On the other hand, I very much enjoy being required to demonstrate my subservient status in non-flamboyant ways such as walking three steps behind my domme, having to address her respectfully, having to ask for her permission to order at a restaurant, not speaking until spoken to, etc. Some people may not consider those things to be humiliation, but whatever you call it, that brand of humiliation is exciting and attractive to me.

Again, I don't understand this but for a completely different reason. To me, this is just basic protocol. Nothing humiliating about it to my way of thinking. If that's what gets the humiliation kink met for someone, great! I'm already well on my way. Maybe my problem is that I don't get humiliated or embarrased often so I'm not recognizing the subtle little actions that would push the humiliation buttons of other people. This is one of the reasons I asked for resource links and thoughts from people who are more experienced in this area.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:44:33 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

Yayyy - I'm not the only one that has found it mind-boggling at some point.

I even went so far as to break it down to questioning the nature of the result in hopes of 'reverse-engineering' how best to get there without totally shredding some guy's ego.

Bookmarking thread. I love the first line -- reading til your eyes cross is where I'm at right now. The volume of information is overwhelming. I need to make a surgical strike to get the best information rather than carpet bombing my brain.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:48:49 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VAcontroldom

advice that requires hard work may not be helpful

I'm not afraid of hard work. I'm a full-time university student, work at the university publishing house, and I'm mother of two. Hence the reason my time is at a premium. I plan to work smarter instead of harder in this case.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 1:53:30 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Imakemensquirm

I'm not sure why you are asking the question, you said yourself that it isn't your kink. I don't think humiliation play will work for either party if both don't get something from it.

Simple: Because as long as they don't cross into my hard limits, I always try to meet a partner's needs. The act itself doesn't have to get me wet if it makes my partner hot. I get off on giving him/her pleasure. But I can't meet the need if I don't grasp the concept.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 2:04:28 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BadOne

Yer way to lazy for me you just gotta plow thru it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

My time to devote to research is limited

That's tough. But I really don't see why, if you do not want to give it the time it deserves, we should do it for you. We don't work for you.

Please return to the OP. It specifically states that I'm asking for preferred resources so that I am better able to direct the focus of my research. Once I've had a chance to study those resources, then I can think about tackling the rest of the huge volume of possibilities. At no time did I ask to be handed an one-size-fits-all answer.

Illiteracy is a national tragedy. Support your local schools.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/24/2009 2:22:41 PM

TazDevil

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So humiliation is the game, and the rules we wont lied out, but there or no rules, you know what makes you fell scared, shy, in need, use that for your humiation it not the same for any 2 of us, but I well say that I do like too try and get them to believe something is true even if it not IE you’re a slut, so on

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 7:49:21 AM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BadOne

Yer way to lazy for me you just gotta plow thru it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

My time to devote to research is limited

That's tough. But I really don't see why, if you do not want to give it the time it deserves, we should do it for you. We don't work for you.

Please return to the OP. It specifically states that I'm asking for preferred resources so that I am better able to direct the focus of my research. Once I've had a chance to study those resources, then I can think about tackling the rest of the huge volume of possibilities. At no time did I ask to be handed an one-size-fits-all answer.

Illiteracy is a national tragedy. Support your local schools.

Do you actually think restating your laziness makes you appear less lazy OH im so sorry YOU have preferred laziness. You should have made that clear in your first post! I will be more than happy to restate the fact that your lazy.

All the best. BadOne

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 8:26:42 AM

LadyPact

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I don't have links for you. I don't have the time to wade through all of that stuff, either. Instead, I'm going to offer you an opinion.

Humiliation is a tactic that is almost impossible to employ without knowing your subject. As others have posted, without knowing the person you are dealing with, you have no idea of what will be embarrassing to that person. Case in point, males who value their masculinity would be humiliated to be paraded at the local club in pink panties. It wouldn't do anything for a cross dresser, who loves the feminine side of himself. No matter what you pick as what might be humiliating to one, another will love it for another reason.

The art to humiliation is finding those things that you can use that you don't plan. Capitalizing on that spark of embarrassment that you can fan into the humiliation flame. Walking the tightrope of not involving the public, when all the while, the sub is convinced that the world knows. Playing in that realm can be a lot of fun.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 10:04:41 AM

Sirandwench

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For a long time I too struggled to understand humiliation. Here is what I have come to understand. Maybe it will help you.

First, there is an old quote from Jay Wiseman that really helps set the foundation for me when I think about BSDM as a whole: "I define SM as the knowing use of psychological dominance and submission, and/or physical bondage, and/or pain, and/or related practices in a safe, legal consensual manner in order for the particpants to experience erotic arousal and/or personal growth."

I am sure that you have had the experience of flogging a sub and both of you becoming aroused, you from giving pain, and the sub from recieving it. Perhaps you have trained a sub to enjoy pain, by first giving them pleasure which arouses them, then giving mild pain along with pleasure, then over time more severe pain and perhaps less conventional pleasure, and eventually you "train" them to become erotically aroused by pain.

Humiliation is one of the "related practices" that Jay talks about, and it is a bit like pain. Humiliation is a sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity. Just like pain, it can be very uncomfortable, but it can also be very arousing. In BDSM we use different types of pain - striking, pinching, heat, cold, friction, etc. A given sub may not be aroused by any of them, or may be aroused by one but not another (loves a spanking, hates nipple clamps, for example.) The same sub may be trained to be aroused by some or all of them.

Many activities can create this sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity in a sub, and many of them are woven into the basic fabric of BDSM. For example, what is often the first thing we do with a sub? We get them naked. That in itself is often humiliation. Think about it - if you were home alone this weekend, no one else around, and you were ordered to stay naked all weekend, wouldn't you feel a sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity?

I once had a domme friend who loved humiliation. She was lesbian, so all of her subs were women, and she loved to give them what she called "a good feeling of humiliation." She had all kinds of techniques to create it.

So, as you are thinking about humiliation, think about ways to make your sub feel that sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity, and ways that you can train them to crave and be aroused by that feeling. Hope that helps.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 11:53:16 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Do you actually think restating your laziness makes you appear less lazy OH im so sorry YOU have preferred laziness. You should have made that clear in your first post! I will be more than happy to restate the fact that your lazy.

Clearly, I have a vastly different definition of laziness than you. If I wished to hire an auto mechanic, I would not simply open the Yellow Pages and select one at random. I would first inquire with relatives, friends, and acquaintances to get the names of a few reputable mechanics with whom they have had satisfactory results and who have earned repeat business.

Then, I would call on those mechanics and ask pertanent questions. I might even go so far as to check with the BBB to see which of the mechanics have satisfactory ratings or have had complaints. Only after I was satisfied with the answers I received would I make an appointment to have my car examined. I hardly consider this method lazy.

Your assertion that I must simply "slog through" all of the possible sources of information is tantamount to flipping through the phone book and calling every single mechanic listed for an appointment and then taking my car to each one to have it diagnosed and get an estimate. If that is your method and it works for you, so be it. I consider it a colossal waste of my valuable time. Instead, I prefer to inquire with acquaintances to get links to web sites, names of books, or other suggestions for good information.

Your position lacks any foundation in logic. Ergo, I choose to ignore your lack of rationality. You may go about your business now and don't worry your little head about my question. It's apparent that you have much better things to do.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 11:56:35 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

Humiliation games can be broken down in separate categories but are focused on the re framing or removal of some social trapping or symbol associated with some facet of the person's pride, attainments, of self worth. It is a mental game that is played with a few props and those props are used to reinforce your words and the mind fuck that you are doing.

[major snippage]

Neither of these is a standard example because those are already present in the head of most that like humiliation and they have already built up internal ways to feel about them. THAT is the key to GREAT humiliation, to something that they haven't read in Beauty, Marketplace, O, or some similar book.

Ooh, thanks for this. It's really helpful. I love doing odd, unexpected things and I like how neither of your examples devolve into the truly degrading. I think that's been one of the sticking points for me when it comes to humiliation. So many of the subs who like it seem to want things that, to me, cross the line into degredation of the not-fun sort. That might be why I haven't really been able to wrap my head around its appeal. Changing my thinking to come at it from a mind-fuck perspective will be helpful if I end up with a sub who enjoys humiliation.

Thanks again.

Everyone defines degradation and humiliation in their own way. For me, humiliation is taking what the submissive adores sexually, either consciously or subconsciously and yet is embarassed/ashamed that she loves it. For example, anal sex. Many of us were taught when we were younger that the anus was for one purpose and one purpose only and that had nothing to do with sex. But...because of the mass of nerves there, and some experimentation, many have found that it was a pleasurable area to have touched, to have licked, to have fucked. But because of earlier teachings, we AREN'T supposed to like it. But...your submissive CRAVES it. Down deep, she not only wants it, she NEEDS it. So, you play off that. You begin to play with that soft, tender, tight asshole while all the while you tell her that you KNOW how much she desires it...that you know what an asswhore she is...that you are going to fill that sweet ass with your cum and satisfy not just the asswhore but the cumslut too. These words and actions all touch an erotic aspect of her that thrills her even while embarassing her. It becomes such an interesting cycle in that, when done right, it reinforces her belief that with her dominant, tis O.K. to feel these things while at the same time reinforcing how naughty/nasty she is WHILE at the same time making her feel secure in that it is a good thing to be that way for her dominant.
Degradation for me is taking an aspect of the submissive that they are insecure of about themselves and/or that they feel inadequate about...something that affects their sense of worth and tying it to a sexual aspect such that they can begin to feel like they are less than what they truly are and that their sexual life...such as it is...is based on the fact that their dominant, unlike others, is willing to overlook their shortcomings. If you have a submissive who is overweight and you know that they are insecure about it, that it is tied to their feelings of worth when it comes to their looks and themselves as a whole and you take that knowledge and put it together with play..."God, you are such a fat slut...disgusting...but you are a great fuck even for a fat girl", then you have taken away their self-worth. You've tied their sexuality, their desirability to the fact that it is only their ability to fuck that makes them attractive to you, not their looks or their figure. That, in my world, is degradation.
Humiliation...sexually arousing and reassuring even while embarassing.
Degradation...making someone feel less than what they are while still using them

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 12:14:51 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandwench

Many activities can create this sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity in a sub, and many of them are woven into the basic fabric of BDSM. For example, what is often the first thing we do with a sub? We get them naked. That in itself is often humiliation. Think about it - if you were home alone this weekend, no one else around, and you were ordered to stay naked all weekend, wouldn't you feel a sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity?

So, as you are thinking about humiliation, think about ways to make your sub feel that sensation of uneasiness, self-consciousness and loss of dignity, and ways that you can train them to crave and be aroused by that feeling. Hope that helps.

This is a lovely post. Thank you.

The highlighted portions of the quoted text are, I think, indicative of some of the confusion I experience when it comes to this topic. I just don't get self-conscious very often. Many things that cause this type of uneasiness for others, I wouldn't give a second thought. I have difficulty figuring out what things might cause that discomfort because *I* would not be uncomfortable. I don't understand why someone else would be.

I discovered some interesting videos on YouTube in which dominant women insult and (theoretically) humiliate viewers. The comments ran along the lines of "what a goddess, I bow to your superiority" -- yet, to me, the women seemed ridiculous. I have also been slowly working my way through the archives here and found an old post by a pro-dominant who gave an extensive list of activities she'd used. I don't understand the appeal, but I still would like to be able to provide this sort of experience if that's what a sub wants.

I'll keep researching. Thanks again for your suggestions.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 1:42:50 PM

GoddessTeaze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Yer way to lazy for me you just gotta plow thru it.

BadOne

I thought it, you said it!
Too funny

GoddezzT`

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 9:23:49 PM

calif94577

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Ok this is my experience with it, I personaly love being the humiliator so it kind of helps.
Fist as most have already state it that it is different for every sub and you need to not only get to know them but their limits.
If they dont have many limits when it comes to humiliation and you dont either then that opens up a very wide spectrum of things to use, as CreativeDominant explained, you can use things that are steriotipicaly wrong and turn it on them, but from there you can make fun of things about them (weight, looks, scars, body features, birthmarks, habbits) you can also use their pased, example, if their previouse person dumped them, say that they were just used as a fuck toy and dumped, or "no wonder he/she left you", and it can get as extreme as using watersports and human toilets. Mabey some ass licking, or playing with them in front of people/friends. makeing them perform in front of/with other people. any thing and every thing, play off their weakenesses.
Now the most important thing is knowing how far you can go with them, some might enjoy aspects of it example watersports or public use but can handle all the mental fucks of useing their passed and dark secrets, others are vice versa and few can take both. Perfect example would be if she has been raped before it might be a traumatic experience that is untouchable, while Ive known some that you can use that against them and it works wonders (of couse it helped that they had a rape fetish)
Talk to your sub/slave, try new things and let them guide you, most if its the first time you toch the subject they will guide you thru it like "do you think im ugly?" or "am i a dirty whore for playing with your cum?"

Feel free to ask any other questions

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/25/2009 9:48:48 PM

Vendaval

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How about starting by listing some of the categories -

mental or physical
public or private
sexual orientation or gender roles

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/26/2009 10:14:04 AM

Sirandwench

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Another quote from Jay Wiseman:

"Some common activities which may be considered humiliating include:

face-slapping
spitting, urinating or defecating on the submissive
giving the submissive an enema
ejaculating on the submissive's face or body
having the submissive lick up their own ejaculate
having the submissive play the role of an animal or an infant
forcing the submissive to wear a revealing or absurd costume
having the submissive urinate or defecate in their clothing
forced feminization
foot worship
crawling
groveling

There are, of course, others."

One important aspect of humiliation is the number of people involved. Generally the more people watching, the more intense the humiliation. The type of people watching is also important: other dom/mes, other subs, others of the same or opposite gender, vanilla people, co-workers, relatives - all can affect the level of humiliation.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/26/2009 11:08:07 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandwench
One important aspect of humiliation is the number of people involved. Generally the more people watching, the more intense the humiliation. The type of people watching is also important: other dom/mes, other subs, others of the same or opposite gender, vanilla people, co-workers, relatives - all can affect the level of humiliation.

Depending on the type of humiliation you are doing, you may not have any right to involve other parties. As I said earlier, some of the fun can be that difference between the sub 'thinking' everyone knows, when in reality other people around don't have a clue.

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RE: Humiliation "Help" - 2/26/2009 12:34:48 PM

Sirandwench

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandwench
One important aspect of humiliation is the number of people involved. Generally the more people watching, the more intense the humiliation. The type of people watching is also important: other dom/mes, other subs, others of the same or opposite gender, vanilla people, co-workers, relatives - all can affect the level of humiliation.

Depending on the type of humiliation you are doing, you may not have any right to involve other parties. As I said earlier, some of the fun can be that difference between the sub 'thinking' everyone knows, when in reality other people around don't have a clue.