RE: Faith

RE: Faith (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 10:55:59 AM)
quote: In BDSM, do you consider yourself one of the faithful or one of the skeptics? Kitten, I consider myself a "faithful skeptic". I am a big believer that before you start the search for someone else you should know yourself. That's the beginning of the journey. But character and confidence comes in testing your evaluation against opposing viewpoints. That's where skepticism enters the equation. The more you test and confirm the more confidence you obtain. Confidence just as important to a submissive as it is to a Dominant. People who seem to be searching aimlessly usually have skipped that first step. They try to make the experience replace the work of knowing who they are before beginning the process. As a result they try to adapt themselves to someone else's idea of who they are. They don't have anything to be "faithful" to, no goal, no fundamental "self" to project into a experience. Instead they present themselves to the experience without applying skeptical cynicism. They get convinced that another knows them better. They assume another has the answers. They don't apply any skepticism before relinquishing trust. That ends up giving trust to people who really didn't earn it. And that ends up in hurt, disappointment and a wondering about "what did I do wrong?" As others have said, even after the process you MUST never isolate yourself or close your mind to learning. Continuing education is essential. I happen to believe that the best learning comes from the Socratic method of discussion; challenging yourself by debate diametrically opposed to your position with people who are just as convinced in their position and can support it by experience and facts. Knowing that there are no universally "right" answers, but there are answers universally right for you, your goals, and your assessment of self. Accepting that it may take a lifetime to find them. I don't define that as "searching". I find it necessary to maintain my faith and confidence.

RiotGirl -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 11:17:44 AM)
Well put Merc n beth!! Very well put. As always. quote: That is, do you come from the mindset that you are what you are because that's what you are? Or, do you search for the whys of what you are, what others are, and how they came to be? i'd like to add on and just say you CAN know yourself, have confidence in yourself yet search. i agree with M n b and say i am a faithful skeptic. Because i KNOW i am what i am. But i also want to know why i am what i am. i put it down to just being inquisitive. Heck i like to know about others too = ) Though even though i i know myself very darn well, you can never know too much.

BalletBob -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 11:51:00 AM)
I am what I am, and there is no changing me. I can't be a Dom or switch, though MADAM tried to see what I could do with another (her Husband). Sub All The Way, BalletBob

FangsNfeet -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 11:58:34 AM)
quote: I often ask what makes me kinky. What leads me to enjoy submission and dominance? Why do I desire humiliation and objectification when many others do not? Why do I work the way I work? Why am I turned on by things others find uninteresting or repulsive? It's the water. Really, it's just because you Choose It. If you can't except that, then you're looking for answers to blame your actions on as an excuse to say who you are. Parents/Up Bringing Genitics Environement TV/Movies Books Past experiences Good and Bad If you keep going on what about what causes it other than yourself, you end up trying to find a label to fit you. The bottom line is that "choice" is the answer.

slavejali -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 12:04:53 PM)
quote: In BDSM, do you consider yourself one of the faithful or one of the skeptics? That is, do you come from the mindset that you are what you are because that's what you are? Or, do you search for the whys of what you are, what others are, and how they came to be? I dont identify myself with my experiences. Experiences in life to me are just playthings. Even though i say "i am a slave" "I am submissive" "I am happy" " I am sad" "I am this" or "i am that" i'm not making any permanent statements about my identification. To do so for me would amount to setting myself up for no end of sufferering if situations weren't *just right" for what i perceived myself to be at any given time. Expereinces in life change, where I go and whatever i do, there i am. So im not one of the faithful, nor one of the skeptics. p.s. When i used the word playthings I'm not meaning to trivialise, or make superficial my relationships in life, I used that word specificially to describe perhaps a spirit that enters into life and its experiences, rather than one that is defined by it.

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:01:02 PM)
MercnBeth, The only think I don't agree with in your post is the understanding of one's self before entering into a relationship. And it isn't that I disagree so much as I want to add a few points. I do agree that one must know thyself a bit before entering into a relationship. However, I also believe that one may spend their entire lives knowing and understanding themselves. One of the benefits of a strong relationship is the ability to understand yourself and your partner in a loving and trusting environment.

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:06:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet quote: I often ask what makes me kinky. What leads me to enjoy submission and dominance? Why do I desire humiliation and objectification when many others do not? Why do I work the way I work? Why am I turned on by things others find uninteresting or repulsive? It's the water. Really, it's just because you Choose It. If you can't except that, then you're looking for answers to blame your actions on as an excuse to say who you are. Parents/Up Bringing Genitics Environement TV/Movies Books Past experiences Good and Bad If you keep going on what about what causes it other than yourself, you end up trying to find a label to fit you. The bottom line is that "choice" is the answer. The question is not in the choosing. The question is why do I choose it? Why do you? Why does anyone? As far as labels go, we all have labels. You have a name. You have a gender or non-gender. Everything you touch, wear, do...they are all labels. Humans define the universe through labeling and categorizing. It is how we make sense of the vast space we spend our lives in. I'm glad you have your answers, but if I relied on yours instead of searching for my own, I would be unsatisfied. :)

BitaTruble -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:33:59 PM)
quote: I don't see to many people asking "What made me kinky?" Let me be one of the few exceptions then. I not only asked, I agonzied over it. I cried, denied, tried to push it away and was completely miserable. Back in the days when the dinosaurs walked the Earth, there wasn't a wealth of information out there to help come to terms with what most were taught was a sick thing to do. I could count on one hand with fingers left over the number of women I ever saw engaging in the same activities which I did. Let me qualify that a bit, because admittedly, being in the closet was far more 'normal' for someone than being out. It's just that there was so little evidence of other lifeforms out there practicing and experiencing some of the kinkier sides of life, a lot of us thought we were alone in how we felt. Perhaps it is a choice, but when you have the option of being a fraud and miserable or being true to yourself and being happy, it doesn't seem like it's really a choice at all. For me, it's more a matter of acceptance. You are what you are, you can accept it or not. Once I accepted that part of myself, then I was able to grow and embrace who and what I am. Choice, maybe.. but self-acceptance was a must for me. Celeste

veronicaofML -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:45:06 PM)
i am not....................a man of faith OR patience. i was taught...............growing up..........i am told to perform right-now....... my bosses...my elders...my teachers......the judge doesnt matter SOOOOOOOOOOOo by the gods..........if "I" aint allowed to make excuses OR take my time....... neither is anyone else in my life. i want what i want......how i want...when i want..........or get away from me...

Mercnbeth -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:46:54 PM)
quote: The only think I don't agree with in your post is the understanding of one's self before entering into a relationship. And it isn't that I disagree so much as I want to add a few points. I do agree that one must know thyself a bit before entering into a relationship. However, I also believe that one may spend their entire lives knowing and understanding themselves. One of the benefits of a strong relationship is the ability to understand yourself and your partner in a loving and trusting environment. Kitten, Points well taken. No disagreement. I agree it is a life long, and evolving process. In fact, giving it some more thought, you can only be sure if you "know thyself" if you go out there and someone else agrees with what you know. The first test of what you know comes from that first relationship after establishing a benchmark. Ongoing, you and your partner should continue that "knowing" process. There are many things that you know you can do at 25 that you know you can't do at 50. Thank you for pointing out that important point.

cloudboy -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 1:49:10 PM)
If you had more orgasmic sex, you'd believe in God.

Noah -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 3:59:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet It's the water. Really, it's just because you Choose It. If you can't except that, then you're looking for answers to blame your actions on as an excuse to say who you are. ... If you keep going on what about what causes it other than yourself, you end up trying to find a label to fit you. The bottom line is that "choice" is the answer. Hey FangsNfeet, I seldom overlook your posts in a thread but this one has me scratching my head. It doesn't seem to me that I could simply choose to have strictly vanilla urges, or submissive ones, kind of like I can't choose to gender-identify oppositely or choose to like the taste of peanuts even though it would be more convenient to enjoy such a popular snack. So from your point of view, you can, or could, choose to be turned on by this, turned off by that? Choose to feel submissive for a while. Then select "dom" another time? Have you done this successfully? Sounds foreign to me, but I'm interested if the phenomenon exists. Whether or not we can know why we respond this way or that seems to me a valid question and I have my doubts. But I'm not familiar with simply choosing in the way you seem to mean. Or did you simply mean that you can choose one set of behaviors even if they seem to go completely against your grain? Thanks

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 3:59:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist That is, do you come from the mindset that you are what you are because that's what you are? Or, do you search for the whys of what you are, what others are, and how they came to be? Have you ever noticed that many many BDSM fundamental discussions boil down to the concepts of faith and skepticism? I have a very scientific instrument for measuring my likes and dislikes. I simple look down and see what pops up. If nothing occurs I must not like it, If my view is obstructed then i like it. It is a 100% accurate and fun science. So, I'm all about Faith in my instrumentation. A similiar scientific approach could be deviced for women as well. :)

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 4:07:49 PM)
I have accepted that this is something that has been in my head since childhood and this is what I enjoy. I often try to figure out why I enjoy the things I do because I am fascinated by human behavior, but don't seek to change who I am. Be well, Julie

Noah -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 4:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou .... Faith in my instrumentation. How can you argue with that?

FangsNfeet -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 10:06:52 PM)
quote: The question is not in the choosing. The question is why do I choose it? Why do you? Why does anyone? Keep this up and you'll be asking "Why is it that I want to know why I want to know why?" We have Type A people and Type B people. We have those who would set off a nuke in a heart beat and others who can't even step on an ant. It's good that everyone is different. It puts balance into the scheme of things. It you would like to go about your endorphines, nervious system, and moleculor make up; do some test/studies that would show what happens to your body and brain when dominance takes you.

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Faith (1/20/2006 10:55:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet quote: The question is not in the choosing. The question is why do I choose it? Why do you? Why does anyone? Keep this up and you'll be asking "Why is it that I want to know why I want to know why?" We have Type A people and Type B people. We have those who would set off a nuke in a heart beat and others who can't even step on an ant. It's good that everyone is different. It puts balance into the scheme of things. It you would like to go about your endorphines, nervious system, and moleculor make up; do some test/studies that would show what happens to your body and brain when dominance takes you. Well, I already know why it is that I want to know why. I want to know why because it helps me to better understand myself, my life, and the community that surrounds me. Asking questions and gaining their answers leads me on the path towards wisdom and enlightenment. I'm not sure what to do with your comment on one's level of violent tendencies. And again, I'm less concerned with the physical affects that masochism and sadism have on me. I know that I am aroused by certain physical acts. I know what causes me to have orgasm and how to go about acheiving that state. I know that objectification, impact play, and blood play give me endorphin highs. My skepticism comes more from the mental aspect of submission, dominance, switchiness, S&M, and a whole host of other things. Why do these things affect me one way, someone else another way, and yet another person in no way at all? To sum up: I may spend my entire life asking these questions. I'm content with that. I'm less content to simply say "This is who I am because this is who I am. The end. Period. No questions asked." Many times, in science and philosophy, one question leads to another question, and then another. The more answers we have, the more ideas we can explore. Descartes said: "I think, therefore I am." This begs the question, "If I stop thinking, will I cease to exist?"

EvilGeoff -> RE: Faith (1/21/2006 12:32:58 AM)
What LA said... LOL I know who and what I am. And I enjoy the spiritual journey of discovery I make as I unfold each layer of the onion to get to the one beneath. YIK, - Geoff

veronicaofML -> RE: Faith (1/21/2006 8:51:07 AM)
If you had more orgasmic sex, you'd believe in God. (in reply to veronicaofML) ===== ========================================== i have gone above my animal lusting.. i have out grown such things i have no sins..given from your bible... can you say that? there is no god except in man's mind..born out of fear i am an atheist lil dude

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