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Smythe -> no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 5:16:33 AM)
Here's a proposition: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. thanks in advance for your insight Smythe

sub4hire -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 5:22:24 AM)
quote: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? THe question of the ages. You communicate. I've heard it play over too many times to count over the year's. Console the submissive. Let them know it will be all right. Communicate with them. Gain the trust. As far as the submissive side of things. The "I'm not saying no" to me would mean it was a desire deep down in the first place. So all in all it would probably be a positive experience. Just need a little reassuarance.

IceyOne -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 5:26:12 AM)
quote: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? From the submissive side: I would hope that my dom would approach it with caution, but still push for it to happen. As you said, I am not saying no, there is just a fear there. Work with ways of alleivating the fear, or getting around the fear so that X can be accolplished. Who knows, even after attempting it, the submissive may still be afraid of it, or may not even like it all...but at least then, you can say you tried. And, you have managed to get past the fear of it.

Evanesce -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 6:19:21 AM)
quote: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? I'd want them played out exactly as Master has done with me in the past. When we met six years ago, I had a real phobia about things being over my face. Anything more substantial than a blindfold and I'd hit panic mode instantly. He, on the other hand, is a hood and gas mask afficianado, and insisted we were going to work through my fear. We did. The first time He decided to push the issue, He had me kneel on the dungeon floor, took a gas mask and told me He was going to hold it to my face. He'd pulled the straps forward, so that all I had to do was to back away from it if it got too intense. I took a deep breath and He put it up to my face. Immediately, I panicked, and the tears came, but I did not move. He held it there only for maybe ten seconds, which seemed like an eternity to me, and then He comforted me and told me He was proud of me for not backing away. He then put the mask away and didn't try again for several weeks. The next time, I withstood it just a little longer. We continued working on it that way for about six months, and at the end of those six months, I was wearing full hoods with nothing but two small nostril holes for breathing. I still can't do the latex vacuum bed, though. There's just something about the way it sucks against my body that really freaks me out.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 6:21:47 AM)
Going with communicate (which is a really nifty concept), be specific in figuring out what's triggering the freak out. See what you can do to mitigate it. See what the sub can do to be in control of it.See it as a "learning experience" for you both. :)

thetammyjo -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 6:39:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe Here's a proposition: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. It makes me cautious. I'll talk more to my partner and try to figure out what is scary. Is it just fear of the unknown or a danger issue? It is emotional or physical fear? Is it based on an experienece? The answers to those questions determine what I'll do. And it has happened to me in real life. I like knife play, its one of my top five things to do. Fox was raped at knife point (yes, rape does happen to young men, too). We were honest about this. I agreed to train him but was upfront saying I woud never have a slave I couldnt' do knife play with so we'd just have fun and learn together for a few months before he moved on. Near the end of his training, after months and months I sent him to fetch 2 or 3 toys for me to use on him -- which is a test, because he has to bring things I want, not things he just wants. He brought one of my knives. I never pushed him, I never even talked about it during those months of training. That was when I knew that at the end of training he was going to become my property. Now this is an extreme example to be sure. I've also had partners who been scared of blindfolds but not for a traumatic reason. I still go slowly -- tell them to close their eyes, put my hand over their eyes, then a blindfold for a few minutes. I think my job as a dominant is to make my desires and needs clear, to understand my submissive/slave's reactions, and to then stick to my own desires and needs by either steadily and slowly playing with that. If Fox had not brought the knife to me and our training contract had ended, the relationship as a kinky relationship would have ended that day the contract ended. I have trained dozens of people but owned a handful because I don't compromise on what I need and want nor to I force these onto people. I personally find quality shows itself over time as you get to know each other and see what changes.

truesub4u -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 7:51:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. thanks in advance for your insight Smythe I have actually found out... from this submissives point of view on this. That threatening me with my fears does heighten the moment. Not only for Master, but this sub as well. Sometimes even mentioning making me do something, that is a hard limit for me heightens the moment. Do I think he'll make me? No, not always. But knowing he has total control over if I will or will not. WOW

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 9:21:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe As the s, how would you want things to play out? Talk about it. Then talk about it some more. After that talk about it. When you've talked about it for a long enough period of time, and if the sub ends up being OK with it, move slowly in the direction of the intended act.

fergus -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 10:06:17 AM)
Communication. And trust. If he has no trust that you will not damage him in some way, then there is little that can be done. fergus

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 10:10:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fergus Communication. And trust. If he has no trust that you will not damage him in some way, then there is little that can be done. fergus Sometimes the problem has nothing to do with how much or what you trust the other person to do or not to do.

Smythe -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 1:56:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evanesce I'd want them played out exactly as Master has done with me in the past. When we met six years ago, I had a real phobia about things being over my face. Anything more substantial than a blindfold and I'd hit panic mode instantly. He, on the other hand, is a hood and gas mask afficianado, and insisted we were going to work through my fear. We did. The first time He decided to push the issue, He had me kneel on the dungeon floor, took a gas mask and told me He was going to hold it to my face. He'd pulled the straps forward, so that all I had to do was to back away from it if it got too intense. I took a deep breath and He put it up to my face. Immediately, I panicked, and the tears came, but I did not move. He held it there only for maybe ten seconds, which seemed like an eternity to me, and then He comforted me and told me He was proud of me for not backing away. He then put the mask away and didn't try again for several weeks. The next time, I withstood it just a little longer. We continued working on it that way for about six months, and at the end of those six months, I was wearing full hoods with nothing but two small nostril holes for breathing. I still can't do the latex vacuum bed, though. There's just something about the way it sucks against my body that really freaks me out. Thanks, that's a great story Naturally, as others have said, communication is important. But your master was patient and determined, and you were brave and determined, and you ended up pleasing him and mastering a fear. Sometimes, neither dominance nor submission is for the faint of heart! best, Smythe

Smythe -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 2:08:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u I have actually found out... from this submissives point of view on this. That threatening me with my fears does heighten the moment. Not only for Master, but this sub as well. Sometimes even mentioning making me do something, that is a hard limit for me heightens the moment. Do I think he'll make me? No, not always. But knowing he has total control over if I will or will not. WOW Anticipation is half the fun of such an encounter. I like to make certain noises when my boy is blindfolded to give a hint of what might happen. And I think he would agree with you that his sense of powerlessness to effect what will happen next is very exciting. Smythe

Hallittlelolita -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 2:08:58 PM)
i am going to be doing the D's because that is what i and my Master qre in the TPE. i would let him console me and make me relax and let Him do it mmm whatever that is[;)]. i am His property he makes the choices. However i cant answer for the subs because i am not one, i am a slave. When this occures all my rights are revoked by my Master that why it is called slavry but consensual of course[;)][:)][:)] Sincerely Master Hal's lil cumslut slavegirl andie quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe Here's a proposition: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. thanks in advance for your insight Smythe

Smythe -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 2:10:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: fergus Communication. And trust. If he has no trust that you will not damage him in some way, then there is little that can be done. fergus Sometimes the problem has nothing to do with how much or what you trust the other person to do or not to do. LA ---> Not sure what you mean about this? What problem are we talking about? Smythe

ChainedExistence -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 3:08:26 PM)
There are fears of the sort, "I'm afraid of how much this might hurt" and then there are some deep seated traumatic fears that a Dominant may not be equipped to handle. The "go slow and in steady increments" idea is probably a good one, but it may be overly simplistic to believe it would work for all situations. Let's face it, we aren't all wired the same. Just as I will never be a basketball star because I don't have the height for it, there may be those things I don't have the emotional wiring to handle either. And who can negate that some traumas in a person's past may have created a fear that's not easy to work through without some serious emotional/psychological help? That's not to say that some fear play isn't fun! It can certainly create some sexual tension and excitement...but as in all things...it's wise to look before you leap!!

Jasmyn -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 7:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe Here's a proposition: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? <snip> thanks in advance for your insight Smythe I do so enjoy playing with fear like this...watching their face go from one of 'nah she isn't serious', to 'oh god she's is serious', to 'oh god gulp', to a look of incredulousness when they hear themselves asking for that very thing. Following through with it is dependent upon the sub in question and knowing them well enough to know if right now is the time to prove I am all powerful (to them) and will do whatever I want...or whether a quirky little sadistic streak comes in and after they've finally begged to face this fear..I say 'umm, no, can't bothered today'... to me the pleasure isn't in always surpassing that fear, but getting them to agree to facing that fear in the first place. Tammyjo fantastic post.

KnightofMists -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 10:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smythe Here's a proposition: The Dom or Domme says: I want to do X to/with you. The submissive says: Oh god, I am really scared of X, like terrified. I am not saying no, but I am freaking out. As the D, how would you approach this? As the s, how would you want things to play out? I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. thanks in advance for your insight Smythe Every sitaution is different... however, I tend to take a direct approach in confronting the fear. I do enjoy fear play to a point... but, I am careful to be sure that the fear is such that it can be controlled by my girls. example.... as I was getting to know kyra, I learned she had a deep fear of knives and knife play in general. She shared this fear long before it was apparent that we were on a possible path of a significant relationship. Well fast forward many months, and there she is tell me that she wants and " I want to be Yours". well that week... remembering her fear.. I used the knife. She was in a prefect state of bliss and joy before the knife came out. it was a simple knife and she actaully didn't see it until afterwards. I used it on her back. In one moment, the fear of of the knife disappeared. She knew instantly that I had put a knife to her... the surprize and the joy of it was rather enlightening for her. It has become a play that is very special for us for more than one reason G Some fears are real in that the risk is high and therefore are fear is justified and it used to protect us from a precieved danger. But, some fears are beyond the actually risk that there is. The fear is in essense, unjustified. These types of fears are easier to confront and dismantle... sometimes you can do it quickly. Often, the reward of dispelling the fear is very empowering to the submissive. The catch! Making the distinction between Justified Fear and Unjustified Fear. Not so easy... and the consequence of being wrong is very bad to say the least.... It can be a trust breaker! if wrong. Understanding the roots of the fear... get to the consequence of what is feared.... IE... she was afraid of knives.... well that is not fear... what is the fear is the consequence of knife. The cutting, the blood, the violence, the pain... the knife is the focal point of the fear... but it is the underlying issues that are the cause of the fear.... Get to them... and then undermined those fears. As a Top... I seek to eliminate the consequences of the fear.. disarm it's power over the bottom! When the bottom sees the Top as having control over roots of thei fear... well they are able to confront and conquer them! with the help of the Top. A very empowering experience

veronicaofML -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/20/2006 11:13:20 PM)
As the s, how would you want things to play out? I am curious about this because when my boy tells me that he is afraid of something, it makes me want to do it more.(but then, I am sadistic). I don't hit him over the head with it, figuratively, but I love to use his fear to heighten anticipation. And when he faces a fear like this, for me, I love and treasure him even more. I wonder what others think. thanks in advance for your insight Smythe ================== wellllllllllllllllllllllll m'Lady.......... given at one time...with my 1st Domme... She mentioned fire play... and i said..."ya gotta be outta yer freakin mind" but i went along with it.. just like i was not too happy about the frenum piercing..or the tat on my butt OR the nipple piercings.. just like NOW ...i wanted...a p.a.--but was scared shitless... but i did it anyway. i have DONE a helluva lot since i first came into this. no--i aint helpin ya yet. sorry. i guess????? for me????? just get my macho self up on my feet and head for the car...and say let's get to it if we are gonna do it.. some folks have the backbone to face it..some of us follow our fears.. it depends i guess on which is which.. m a y b e ? time, patience, loving hands...soft voice...and..talk it out... i guess just try.. good luck best wishes

fldrkhorse -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/21/2006 5:27:42 AM)
The answer is the Masters power has to be stronger than the subs fears. That's why so many of these "relationships" end ugly, because we are in search of someone whose hot, or hung, hairy, or agrees with our fantasy, or whatever. A Masters power is not in his physical being. A Masters exterior really adds nothing, other than lust I suppose, to the D/s dynamic. Thats why its critical to go through the courting stage for the sub to understand the Masters power. Is it physical? Emotional? Psychological? Spritual? Does His power meet/match/mesh with the subs needs/fears? I know what I'm attracted to physically but that person might not, or atleast has not so far in my life, been a match as a sub for me. The other thing I might add is never, ever, ever say yes and mean no. Say what you mean and mean what you say. All these threads are saying communicate, but if you communicate the wrong message that also will end in disaster.

MHOO314 -> RE: no...no...yes...no... (1/21/2006 5:31:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fldrkhorse The answer is the Masters power has to be stronger than the subs fears. That's why so many of these "relationships" end ugly, because we are in search of someone whose hot, or hung, hairy, or agrees with our fantasy, or whatever. A Masters power is not in his physical being. A Masters exterior really adds nothing, other than lust I suppose, to the D/s dynamic. Thats why its critical to go through the courting stage for the sub to understand the Masters power. Is it physical? Emotional? Psychological? Spritual? Does His power meet/match/mesh with the subs needs/fears? I know what I'm attracted to physically but that person might not, or atleast has not so far in my life, been a match as a sub for me. The other thing I might add is never, ever, ever say yes and mean no. Say what you mean and mean what you say. All these threads are saying communicate, but if you communicate the wrong message that also will end in disaster. BRAVO! well stated.

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