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RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 5:07:59 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

Seems pretty clear to me.

Racist:
Section 2.1: The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever.

Section 3.5: Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.

Anti union
Section 2.7: an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union.

Anti public education
Section 2.8: Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market

Tax and gold standard woo
Section 2.4: abolishment of ... all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution.
Section 2.5:  Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. ...the repeal of legal tender laws and compulsory governmental units of account.

Am I dumb, where the race comes in?  As unions are concerned I am with libertarians. I prefer business to deal with a worker rather than with a union. Certainly nobody wants government to decide how to raise their children. Public education can well be the responsibility of free market. The same applies to health care. IRS should go: libertarians support either flat tax or consumption tax that can be collected without complex organization. Certainly, money should fit its purpose and the government should not be allowed to make your wealth disappear at will (by inflating the currency).


The "right to not trade for any reason" is code for excluding people from public accomodations, hotels, restaurants, airlines etc., on the basis of race. As to raising children that's more code for segregated education.

Education being free market, i.e. all private education means I would never have attended school as my parents were drunken louts who couldn't be bothered to do anything for me and my siblings. Many thousands of children would find themselves in the same place if we ended public education. IOW a very very bad idea.

So a company should be allowed to co-ordinate with others in the region or industry to set wages but be allowed to refuse to recognize unions? Why not just openly declare your support for the repeal of the 14th ammendment?

Inflation has to happen as long as the economy expands which it has to do if the population continues to expand. Complaining about it is a sign of belief in anti taxer woo.

I never quoted anything about the IRS.

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 5:25:12 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

Have you read that document? Blatantly racist, anti worker and union, full of gold standard woo and anti tax BS, heck its even anti public education. Not a reasonable document in the slightest.

Explain me racist element?  Your ideas about tax, education and unions certainly differ.


Racist
Section 2.1: The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever.

This isn't racist, though a racist could use it not to trade, but there are many other applications, and I don't think it is there to promote racism. For example, if that were allowed, I would not serve politicians and bankers except for the rarest of cases. Why should I have to trade with bad people.Oh and I would discount known liberterians, and charge more to neocons, and extreme liberals.

Section 3.5: Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.
So, they should be raised by who's standards. DomKen's LOL, So, the children will be rude dismissive and paranoid I guess. Just kidding. jab..

Anti union
Section 2.7: an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union.
Well, if you own something do you own it or not, if you own it then you can select how it should be run, workers can quit. It would be very difficult to keep workers if you were a complete ass to them.

Anti public education
Section 2.8: Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market
At minimum if we want to provide for education, it should allow for selecting a school. My public school experience, is half the classes were trash, I would prefer everyone had the ability to select whatever school they wanted to. Let's see every public education history class was useless, high school sociology class useless, Film as Literature(LOL, I know, I just took it because I needed an elective credit) forced to learn a foreign language, useless. Now if someone were interested in learning those things sure, but I'm not. I'd have much benefited from a more technical slanted learning experience. Most people in my opinion would benefit from going to school to learn things they were interested in rather than stuff they will never use.

Tax and gold standard woo
Section 2.4: abolishment of ... all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution.

Why would you want unnecessary services.
Section 2.5:  Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. ...the repeal of legal tender laws and compulsory governmental units of account.
What's wrong with this, if you come to me and say will you take this for that, and we as adults with at least average mental capacity agree, why not.

Seems pretty clear to me.

It seems you are devoted to concepts that lead us into this situation, by implication.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 5:29:10 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

The "right to not trade for any reason" is code for excluding people from public accomodations, hotels, restaurants, airlines etc., on the basis of race.

Do you recognize you added race. It is just your personal fear and nothing to do with libertarianism or anything else. The same with education: every community has interest of basic education being accessible to everyone. There would be programs to support poor. Government involvment just adds cost and inefficiency.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 5:34:56 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Neither am I. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I am almost an anarchist, any other questions ?

T
....somehow I am just NOT surprised Term....


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(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 8:47:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

The "right to not trade for any reason" is code for excluding people from public accomodations, hotels, restaurants, airlines etc., on the basis of race.

Do you recognize you added race. It is just your personal fear and nothing to do with libertarianism or anything else.

It is not my personal fear it is quite clearly what is always meant when that sort of thing is mentioned. Look into it and see for yourself.
quote:

 The same with education: every community has interest of basic education being accessible to everyone. There would be programs to support poor. Government involvment just adds cost and inefficiency.

Who would provide these programs to help the poor? Government can't do it according to several other planks in that document. And every community doesn't have an interest in accessible education for all, study history some.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/8/2009 8:50:09 PM >

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RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/8/2009 9:10:55 PM   
MasterDoc1


Posts: 173
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		Haven't read this all but I become eligible to vote in 1973 and can proudly say that I have NEVER voted for a winning presidential candidate because I voted for the Libertarian candidate every time.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 4:57:38 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I hate to think how you do at the horse race  . (And I pray your party of choice continues to lose.)

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/9/2009 5:11:31 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 12:26:05 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The ONLY ONLY ONLY party to have a plank specifically calling for the recognition of gay marriage is supposedly also code talking racist ideas?????

ROFLMAO
DomKen man you slay me with the paranoia.

The Plank in the platfor is very specific.

3.5    Rights and Discrimination We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.


Seems you found the "coded" racism before you finished reading the platform DomKen.





< Message edited by Archer -- 3/9/2009 12:28:40 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 1:41:24 PM   
couldbemage


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/16/2008
Status: offline 		I like the libertarian views on personal freedom, but their take on economic issues is just plain idiotic.

It's simple. I'm bill gates. libertarians take over. I liquidate my stupid computer company and buy up every water source in US. Since I have the right to not do buisness with whomever I please....

I can just declare myself king. Anyone who objects can just do without MY infrastructure.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 2:24:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The ONLY ONLY ONLY party to have a plank specifically calling for the recognition of gay marriage is supposedly also code talking racist ideas?????

ROFLMAO
DomKen man you slay me with the paranoia.

The Plank in the platfor is very specific.

3.5    Rights and Discrimination We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.


Seems you found the "coded" racism before you finished reading the platform DomKen.
 
The plank doesn't say anything about protecting minority rights or anything of the sort. It just says what government shouldn't do not anything about what private citizens should be prevented from doing.

So no your finding the token "we're not bigots" plank that has no effect on anything doesn't change a plank that declares that businesses should be allowed to deny service to people on the basis of sex, race, sexual orientation etc.

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 2:27:00 PM   
TwoNYCDommes


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Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage

I like the libertarian views on personal freedom, but their take on economic issues is just plain idiotic.

It's simple. I'm bill gates. libertarians take over. I liquidate my stupid computer company and buy up every water source in US. Since I have the right to not do buisness with whomever I please....

I can just declare myself king. Anyone who objects can just do without MY infrastructure.



It's highly unlikely that the owners of every water source would sell them to you.

(in reply to couldbemage)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 3:16:43 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage

It's simple. I'm bill gates. libertarians take over. I liquidate my stupid computer company and buy up every water source in US. Since I have the right to not do buisness with whomever I please....

I can just declare myself king. Anyone who objects can just do without MY infrastructure.



Scary, when you think about it.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 3:56:03 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I hate to think how you do at the horse race  . (And I pray your party of choice continues to lose.)


Yeah, cause the 2 parties actually in power have done such a fantastic job.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 4:17:04 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage

It's simple. I'm bill gates. libertarians take over. I liquidate my stupid computer company and buy up every water source in US. Since I have the right to not do buisness with whomever I please....

I can just declare myself king. Anyone who objects can just do without MY infrastructure.



Scary, when you think about it.


It's stupid if you think about it.

So, for this scary thing to happen, he'd have to convince everyone around here to sell him all their property, because you can build a well, anywhere around here. Also, Rain happens all the time, rain barrels and purification methods would provide all the water I'd ever need and for that matter anybody in about half the country would need.  I'd be filthy rich under your scenario selling water Gates refused to sell, that scenario will not ever happen. It's absurd to say the least. Something, a child might envision.

More likely scenario is government by decree bans rain barrels, and makes laws stating you can not build wells on your property, then corrupt politicians sell the only water source to a private company. See that could actually happen, but that only can happen when government is allowed to control everything, the inverse of a libertarian world. More a corrupt socialist system. Not that all socialist systems are corrupt, but all governments go through phases of corruption.

Scary thought if you think about it.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 4:23:13 PM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I hate to think how you do at the horse race  . (And I pray your party of choice continues to lose.)


Yeah, cause the 2 parties actually in power have done such a fantastic job.


Yeah, the Clinton presidency sucked, all  that peace and prosperity and people worldwide loving us. Wouldn't want that again, thank God Bush eradicated it all in 8 years. Now it's less than 2 months in and it's all Obama's fault? Sure. Amazing....

Keep on voting for the 3rd party candidate because most of those voter's are GOP anyway, so more power to them. 

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RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 4:48:29 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Scary thought if you think about it.



Yep  . American libertarianism is one of the more objectionable political ideologies out there: nearly every libertarian I hear bemoans the government whilst arguing in favour of a kind of dog eats dog society (or absence thereof) where it's every man to himself. Yet, many of them seem to have a strange aversion to a woman's right to choose: so much for individual liberty, huh? I don't know what's worse, (American) libertarianism or (American) libertarianism light (ie. Republicanism) :-) .

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RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 5:00:55 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Scary thought if you think about it.



Yep  . American libertarianism is one of the more objectionable political ideologies out there: nearly every libertarian I hear bemoans the government whilst arguing in favour of a kind of dog eats dog society (or absence thereof) where it's every man to himself. Yet, many of them seem to have a strange aversion to a woman's right to choose: so much for individual liberty, huh? I don't know what's worse, (American) libertarianism or (American) libertarianism light (ie. Republicanism) :-) .


You are tiresome, what the hell, does that made up non-sense have to do with the stupid scenario of bill gates buying up water, which was the premise of my response. Thanks for being completely intellectually dishonest yet again, as if the summation of my thoughts could be summarized in the piece you chose to include.

News flash, Libertarians, many are pro-choice some aren't some are. Secondary News Flash, abortion is not that important of an issue compared to other issues. It really isn't. Just because you are obsessed with it, doesn't mean most people are.

And to use your dog eat dog scenario, it would seem to me that extreme socialists, such as yourself, prefer to deny that the government is a dog, just as vile as the most vile corporate dog, potentially. Yet if your prefered hound gets what it wants there is absolutely no counterbalance. A corporate dog can be laid down, what are you going to do when there is one 50 foot tall dog, and he's controlled by the next bush type president, and all the little dogs you didn't like were laid to rest.

Let me guess. Shit your pants.


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 5:15:57 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You ought to stop trying to engage me in conversation :-) .

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 5:25:11 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You ought to stop trying to engage me in conversation :-) .

The only way I would prefer to engage you is with a gag, and very tight restraints. One less socialist blabbering non-sense, but the body could be used. And you know what I'd do, oh this is good, I'd impregnate you and keep you tied up until you had the fucking baby. That would destroy you. Hahahaha. No abortion for you. Oh, and I'd raise that kid to be a socialist hating libertarian. Your vision of satan will have emerged from your own body. Lovely.

but on a less demented note.
The only reason I do respond is I'm trying to determine if you are feigning insanity for shits and giggles, or if you are actually insane. Because you just make up stuff constantly. Literally make things up. You ignore facts that don't suit you, snip pieces.

No, I'll respond every time to anybody blabbering agenda laden crap.

edited to add: You are free not to respond back if you like, I'm not posting for your benefit, as I fully realize you will not be swayed one bit.


< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 3/9/2009 5:28:04 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: OK, who is more a "Libertarian" than a Co... - 3/9/2009 5:42:40 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thank you for allowing us to peek inside that ever so sane libertarian mind of yours  .

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Profile   Post #: 60
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