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Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 5:22:27 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		I found it enormously ironic that many of the same people applauding the pilots of Flight 1549 are also the same people who consistently bash union members.

Surprise!

Guess which two guys are union members and unhappy with how unions have been losing the political game?

So tell me, anti-union folks, do you believe these two guys didn't deserve their pay?


Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger To Congress: My Pay Has Been Cut 40 Percent In Recent Years, Pension Terminated AP | JOAN LOWY and MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN | Posted 02.24.2009


Sullenberger, a 58-year-old who joined a US Airways predecessor in 1980, told the House aviation subcommittee that his pay has been cut 40 percent in recent years and his pension has been terminated and replaced with a promise "worth pennies on the dollar" from the federally created Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

These cuts followed a wave of airline bankruptcies after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks compounded by the current recession, he said.

"The bankruptcies were used by some as a fishing expedition to get what they could not get in normal times," Sullenberger said of the airlines. He said the problems began with the deregulation of the industry in the 1970s. The reduced compensation has placed "pilots and their families in an untenable financial situation," Sullenberger said. "I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps."


Flight 1549 Pilot: Pay Cuts 'Driving Experienced Pilots From www.news8.net/news/stories/0209/598003.html

Sullenberger, a 58-year-old who joined a US Airways predecessor in 1980, and his copilot, Jeffrey B. Skiles, told the panel that experienced pilots are quitting because of deep cuts in their pay and benefits.


Skiles said unless federal laws are revised to improve labor-management relations "experienced crews in the cockpit will be a thing of the past." Sullenberger added that without experienced pilots "we will see negative consequences to the flying public.".....................................................................................................................................................

Sullenberger himself has started a consulting business to help make ends meet. Skiles added, "For the last six years, I have worked seven days a week between my two jobs just to maintain a middle class standard of living." 
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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 5:24:34 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Watch for the Captain to be demonized,besmirched and made fun of.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 5:31:57 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		He also made the claim that ex-military pilots were turning away from airlines because of lower pay.  Okay.....who pays pilots more than the airlines?   Where are all these experienced pilots going to make more money?  This guy is full of shit. 

I'm not applauding this man.  As told to me by my uncle (a retired Army pilot with fixed and rotary wing licenses, and now flies a corporate plane for considerably less money than a major airline pilot), he got lucky.  He did his job, and he lived to tell the tale.  But he did not turn water into wine.  He wants better pay and a ridiculous pension?  Well I want good service and reliability from the airlines, who have been repeatedly saved by government money.  Fuck him, and fuck his union. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/26/2009 5:33:43 PM >

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 5:37:56 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Go Sully!

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 5:43:11 PM   
aravain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Okay.....who pays pilots more than the airlines?  


The military?

I actually don't know, that's a serious question.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:06:02 PM   
MichiganHeadmast


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Watch for the Captain to be demonized,besmirched and made fun of.


Who the fuck would do that, some strawman you made up?

I've been a proud union member (FOP) as well as a conservative.  I just don't believe unions should have powers to extort anything and everything they want.  And they should not be used to shield incompetent fucktards.

I am sure this capable man supports rational compensation and working conditions, and doesn't support lazy, incompetent pilots.  And to the OP, nice attempt to conflate caricature to the level of cleverness.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:11:18 PM   
MichiganHeadmast


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Status: offline 		Well, my apologies, Owner59.  Slaveboy (with whom I usually agree) got in first and did just what you said.  And he's not a figment of your imagination as far as I know.  

Well, I disagree with Slaveboy this time.  The Captain has a right to his opinion with respect to compensation and working conditions, and I do think he (and the crew) acted competently and deserve recognition even if it was "their job."

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:18:00 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

He also made the claim that ex-military pilots were turning away from airlines because of lower pay.  Okay.....who pays pilots more than the airlines?   Where are all these experienced pilots going to make more money?  This guy is full of shit. 

I'm not applauding this man.  As told to me by my uncle (a retired Army pilot with fixed and rotary wing licenses, and now flies a corporate plane for considerably less money than a major airline pilot), he got lucky.  He did his job, and he lived to tell the tale.  But he did not turn water into wine.  He wants better pay and a ridiculous pension?  Well I want good service and reliability from the airlines, who have been repeatedly saved by government money.  Fuck him, and fuck his union. 


No, he only wants the pension he was promised and counted on.

Is it any secret that many companies go into chapter 11 specifically so they can restructure their labor agreements and rid themselves of the so-called legacy costs of retirement benefits and health care?

Would you be "just happy to have a job" if you dedicated your life to a profession and to a company but had to absorb a 40% pay cut in the waning years of your career?

By the way, there are many corporate, charter, and fractional companies that pay equal or better than many airlines.

It depends on the company and a number of other factors, so you can't generalize.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:26:07 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Why don`t corporate crooks get the heat?

Why do parts of middle class,vote and speak against their own best interests?

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:29:45 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

By the way, there are many corporate, charter, and fractional companies that pay equal or better than many airlines.

It depends on the company and a number of other factors, so you can't generalize.


There is a few corporations, charters, and fractional companies that pay their small pool of pilots better......a few.  By and large, a pilot leaving the armed forces can't get any better pay than a major airline.  So yes, I can generalize. 

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:37:15 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

And they should not be used to shield incompetent fucktards.

I am sure this capable man supports rational compensation and working conditions, and doesn't support lazy, incompetent pilots.


Well, let's hope that we don't have any incompetent fucktards (to use your eloquent phrase) piloting airplanes.

But, of course, judging from your dim view of unions and their members I have no doubt you think so.

quote:


And to the OP, nice attempt to conflate caricature to the level of cleverness.



Apparently I'm not that clever, because I have no idea what you are talking about.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:38:27 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		I don't expect unions to hold up their end of the agreements with their workers. I know too many union retirees that are being screwed left and right by the same unions they spent their lives working for and being loyal to. So I am not a bit surprised to see them screwing two more. Do I think it's right, well no, but that should come as no surprise to anyone that knows me. I have never tried to hide my feelings about the unions.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:43:09 PM   
aravain


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No, I mean really... how much does the military pay pilots?

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:46:20 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

By the way, there are many corporate, charter, and fractional companies that pay equal or better than many airlines.

It depends on the company and a number of other factors, so you can't generalize.


There is a few corporations, charters, and fractional companies that pay their small pool of pilots better......a few.  By and large, a pilot leaving the armed forces can't get any better pay than a major airline.  So yes, I can generalize. 


No, you can't.

Berkshire Hathaway's Net Jets fractional has far more aircraft and more pilots than many major airlines.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 6:51:33 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

I'm not applauding this man. As told to me by my uncle (a retired Army pilot with fixed and rotary wing licenses, and now flies a corporate plane for considerably less money than a major airline pilot), he got lucky. He did his job, and he lived to tell the tale. But he did not turn water into wine.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou



And I am sure that if he HAD turned water into wine, slaveboy would have been shouting about how he was just trying to get the passengers drunk and helpless so that they wouldn't notice how the left wing (of the country not the plane) was leading us to destruction.

Heroism, in almost every case, is someone doing what is needed to be done in the worst of circumstances.

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 7:08:34 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

And I am sure that if he HAD turned water into wine, slaveboy would have been shouting about how he was just trying to get the passengers drunk and helpless so that they wouldn't notice how the left wing (of the country not the plane) was leading us to destruction.

Heroism, in almost every case, is someone doing what is needed to be done in the worst of circumstances


Yeah, that's what I would have been shouting .  I love it when folks allow their emotions to rule them.  The guy probably makes $200k a year.  He works in an industry that routinely fails it's customers.  It's an industry that repeatedly has to be bailed out with government money.  Yet, he uses this incidence to complain about not getting more money.  He tells an outright lie about ex-military pilots steering away from airlines because of low pay.  Of course, all the usual suspects are lined up ready to suck his cock and buy into his bullshit. 

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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 7:13:38 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't expect unions to hold up their end of the agreements with their workers. I know too many union retirees that are being screwed left and right by the same unions they spent their lives working for and being loyal to. So I am not a bit surprised to see them screwing two more. Do I think it's right, well no, but that should come as no surprise to anyone that knows me. I have never tried to hide my feelings about the unions.


No you haven't.

But who is actually doing the screwing here?

US AIR acquired America West to form US Airways after its second bankruptcy filing.

Apparently, their dire straits were not so dire that they had the financial resources to do this.

Meanwhile, their pension obligations were laid on the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, which pays only a small percentage of the pension benefits employees may have worked decades to accumulate and counted on for their retirements.

These benefits were not gifts given to them by a gracious company, but negotiated as part of their compensation.

But the law allows these benefits to be virtually wiped out in a company's restructuring.

So how is this in any way the union's fault?


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RE: Another lazy, greedy union member causing trouble - 2/26/2009 10:31:44 PM   
Termyn8or


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Now let's get this point of logic straight.

They have a union
They got hit with a 40% pay cut
Their retirement is pretty much gone

If the above is accepted as fact, how can unions or even union members be deemed at fault for any monetary problems in large companies ? I would not take a 40% pay cut. I am one Man. These people in the grand scheme of things have a more valuable skill than I, because if they decide the planes don't fly, the planes don't fly. Using a common yardstick for that, how many people can actually do the job ?  They have a union as well as skills that are not easily replacable yet there is a pay cut and loss of benefits, which some could argue that they paid for.

So where is this extreme clout and pattern of abuse by the unions I hear so much about in light of this ? Perhaps someone with better eyesight can explain that to me.

T

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