RE: americanness (Full Version)

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came4U -> RE: americanness (2/27/2009 7:45:45 PM)

American-ness is the action or emotional viewpoint of where one lives, often not felt or outspoken on a large scale unless something really BIG happens (ie: 9/11).

Otherwise, it is everyone for themselves.  Texans scoff at the New Yorkers, Northerners laugh at the Southerners, Cold, hardened Westerners find Californians weak and of lesser ability for hard work. 

What they forget, is that they are the same as every other country in regards to pride in Nationality when it comes down to it.

Here, Quebecers love to hate Ontarioians, Oil hungry in Alberta are paranoid of Ottawa getting their share of the black gold and everyone else loves to pick on a newfie.

What it all comes down to it, at any given time is how you feel when your Anthem is played.  At a hockey game a Canadian can feel nothing but angst when the American anthem is played, yet if attending the Vietnam Wall and we hear the same tune on bugle, we get chills.

I have lived 'over there', was even American (on paper) but my heart has always been Canadian.  We have a different kind of longing when away from home.  Maple syrup runs through our blood and Stompin' Tom echos in our minds when boxcars thunder by instead of Yokum. We talk policits of various forms in various forums.  If there is anything you can make fun of about Canadians is that we find the time to talk up politics with anybody even standing at a bus stop.  By the time a 15 minute wait period has gone by, that discussion is now 10 people, not just two.  They flock like locust to the Timmies (liquid-crack) and disperse as fast as they accumulated without so much as a good-bye. Americans are cold, if the same thing were to occur, they fear turning their backpocket towards a crowd and eye about suspiciously afraid to say much publicly.

Anyhoo, Only difference is how a country is looked at from the outside.  How Americans have to hide their flag and slap a Canadian one on their backpacks to get any good service or respect in Europe is not something to brag about.  Being the most hated country in the world is something that has to change, and being in denial and acting all-inclusive and reclusive isn't going to fix it either. 

Obama promised to find ways to fix the reputation of previous administration's mistakes in the rightful suspicions that other countries have of the entire nation and it's people.  Lets see if that works.

*if this were written in Que, it would have a sign: All wording must be written in French and english.  French larger than english lol.  Please notice your restraunt tip is manditory and already calculated onto your bill total and do NOT lick the dribbles from the maple syrup in the carafe (well ok, one lick). merci.







Vendaval -> RE: americanness (2/27/2009 7:55:59 PM)

As I have mentioned here previously many former roommates were foreign exchange students, 1 French, 1 Japanese, 1 German and 2 Swedish.
 
Most of them had learned English both at school and from American media, TV, films, music and other forms of pop culture.  Imagine trying to explain the difference to a non-native English speaker between "dirt-bag" and "douche-bag".  Needless to say we were both sufficiently embarrassed.  And those sleeveless undershirts that men wear that are called, "wife-beaters"?  They thought that was terribly funny. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I asked some foreign born people where they got their impressions of the US.  They told me from the movies and TV shows we make.  They thought we were a bunch of loud talking buffoons (sitcoms) and that there were drug deals, car chases, and rogue cops everywhere.




MarsBonfire -> RE: americanness (2/27/2009 8:39:51 PM)

Let's see...
General education up until Jr. High school level, then took the first of four Civics classes. I followed this with reading a good bit of both American History, and the writings of Jefferson, Adams and Franklin.

These days, most of my knowledge of what it means to be an American comes from The Constitution, (which is basically a blueprint for what being an American is all about) and the Bill of Rights.

I also value the book "Your Rugged Constitution" by Bruce and Esther Findlay. I've kept my original copy of the book from when I was in High School, though the one I reference now is my third copy... I've pretty much worn out the previous two.

And it's also in good part to my upbringing as a farm kid in central Illinois. Good solid self reliance, and willingness to speak out against assholes. I was also taught not to join crowds who's actions don't jibe with their supposed philosophical foundations... which is why I don't support shit organizations like Focus on the Family, or any of the Republican sheep pens. I own guns, but don't wave them around like a pervert in a trenchcoat does his cock. Gus, as a personal defense, work best is your suspected enemy doesn't know how many you have, or where they are located.  I have spiritual beliefs, but I generally keep them to myself because I consider them personal, and not something to beat my neighbor over the head with. And since I'm also bisexual and a leather pervert, I'm strongly in favor of sexual freedom. (Which definitely excludes me from the GOP's "zeig heil" mindset. Seems the republicans believe that the government has no business running your life... unless it's your sex life. Fuck them!)




SummerWind -> RE: americanness (2/27/2009 8:57:22 PM)

Come from anywhere, start with nothing, achieve something....America




Vendaval -> RE: americanness (2/28/2009 3:50:47 AM)

Part of my definition includes participating in the democratic process and working to improve the lives of your fellow citizens.




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:22:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hello sravaka,

American citizenship - what is that?  It means you live in the Americas.

America is North and South America, comprised of many countries and even more cultures.  How in the world could anyone answer your questions? 

If you mean being a citizen of the United States, that is NOT being an American.  In fact it shows the arrogance of the USA in that there is not even a word in the official language for a citizen of the USA.  There is the word "American" which of course means a citizen of North or South America - Mexicans, Bolivians Uraguayans, Canadians are all Americans.  Perhaps that is the answer to your question.  Citizens of the USA are egocentric and arrogant as a culture. 

Well wishes,



I'm glad someone got 'round to making this point, I missed the earlier part of this topic, but in reading through this, all I can ask is ... how bloody arrogant can people be to assume the identity of a continent instead of dealing with it as component countries, I mean who do they think they are ... the bloody English monarchy?

Pirate




Huntertn -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:33:34 AM)

I'm from the Irish,Cherokee,Apache,French,English,Welsh,Spanish, and Dutch..not to mention German even...What I am is a Military Brat that served too....What I Know Americans to be...comes from watching my Dad leave on long patrols, learning our history in school and  lots of trips to sites..and a lot of reading on my own...not one one thing or ideal makes us what we are, we are not ashamed to borrow and use many...We are the Mongrels of the world..and mostly we do ok..That doesn't mean we hate anyone Else's ideals or lives and yes,lol, we are the busybodies of the world..LOL




kdsub -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:34:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hello sravaka,

American citizenship - what is that?  It means you live in the Americas.

America is North and South America, comprised of many countries and even more cultures.  How in the world could anyone answer your questions? 

If you mean being a citizen of the United States, that is NOT being an American.  In fact it shows the arrogance of the USA in that there is not even a word in the official language for a citizen of the USA.  There is the word "American" which of course means a citizen of North or South America - Mexicans, Bolivians Uraguayans, Canadians are all Americans.  Perhaps that is the answer to your question.  Citizens of the USA are egocentric and arrogant as a culture. 

Well wishes,



I'm glad someone got 'round to making this point, I missed the earlier part of this topic, but in reading through this, all I can ask is ... how bloody arrogant can people be to assume the identity of a continent instead of dealing with it as component countries, I mean who do they think they are ... the bloody English monarchy?

Pirate


Will the Merriam-Webster Dictionary define American as a citizen of the United States...at least one of the definitions so it must be true.

OOPS sorry I mean bloody arrogantly true.

Butch




slaveboyforyou -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:36:47 AM)

quote:

Do you really have flag break in the morning ?

Do people really call adults sir and ma'am ?


I don't even know what a "flag break" is?  Do you mean reciting the Pledge of Allegiance?  We did that in home room, when I was in elementary school.  But assuming that's what you mean, no I've never got a "flag break," at work.

I call people sir and ma'am in certain situations.  I wasn't aware that was a uniquely American habit. 




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:44:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

I have no idea where non-Americans get their ideas from with regards to what Americans are like.  But I have noticed that a lot of non-Americans on the boards have formed some seriously innacurate conclusions.   Besides, I really don't think any generalizations can be made anyway, as it really is a melting pot of different cultures and various attitudes.  Even from state to state, the "cultures", beliefs and behaviors vary greatly. 


Care to give a non - American ... (not even a United States Of America [n]) (what is the term for that actually, at the "homeland" security booth they were calling me an "alien", I know I have my peculiarities, but come on "guys")
... some examples of said "seriously inaccurate conclusions"

Oh, and isn't using the phrase "a lot of non-Americans" one of the generalisations you don't think can be made?
(these are questions, not a conclusions)

I can speak several languages, so maybe I can help a bit with the translation,I am currently refining my fluency in United States English,I am getting favourable results too,if you use the term "U.S." or U.S.A. then people from Iberia in particular may be less confused as to which American country you refer at any given time.

Pirate






kdsub -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:49:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

I have no idea where non-Americans get their ideas from with regards to what Americans are like.  But I have noticed that a lot of non-Americans on the boards have formed some seriously innacurate conclusions.   Besides, I really don't think any generalizations can be made anyway, as it really is a melting pot of different cultures and various attitudes.  Even from state to state, the "cultures", beliefs and behaviors vary greatly. 


Care to give a non - American ... (not even a United States Of America [n]) (what is the term for that actually, at the "homeland" security booth they were calling me an "alien", I know I have my peculiarities, but come on "guys")
... some examples of said "seriously inaccurate conclusions"

Oh, and isn't using the phrase "a lot of non-Americans" one of the generalisations you don't think can be made?
(these are questions, not a conclusions)

I can speak several languages, so maybe I can help a bit with the translation,I am currently refining my fluency in United States English,I am getting favourable results too,if you use the term "U.S." or U.S.A. then people from Iberia in particular may be less confused as to which American country you refer at any given time.

Pirate





It's not United States English.... Look in the dictionary... It is American English...Damn if you are going to criticize our way of speaking get it right will you.

Butch




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:50:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OOPS sorry I mean bloody arrogantly true.

Butch



I've spotted some of this about the place, I have also MET a lot of ... how you say "Americans" however, who are not arrogant, quite the opposite in fact.

They must be the ones that aren't related to the English monarchy then?

Pirate




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 7:54:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I call people sir and ma'am in certain situations.  I wasn't aware that was a uniquely American habit. 


It is uniquely, as you say, American, and makes for a generally better all 'round air of politeness, if you ask me.

Pirate




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:02:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It's not United States English.... Look in the dictionary... It is American English...Damn if you are going to criticize our way of speaking get it right will you.

Butch


Care to give me an example of where I criticised (presuming you mean, as you say, American) your way of speaking?

Pirate




NightTigress -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:14:30 AM)

I will admit now I am a Canadian, and I know that in a lot of ways Americans are just like us. Yet it is really fun sometimes to take the views of Americans that shows like Canadian Bacon and Talking to Americans give us. Though I know this is a very small magority it is so fun to tease the few that belieave us when we tell them we need to go, our generator is melting the igloo, or that our pet moose ran away. Please do not chase me down with your colection of firearems taht you legaly carry or any of that, I know that is a small part of your people, adn there are lots of cool Americans that I could nto tell from Canadians. I Guess the problem is that the media has really only tryed to make America look stupid, we could probably get teh same or worse from any other country.




kdsub -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:19:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It's not United States English.... Look in the dictionary... It is American English...Damn if you are going to criticize our way of speaking get it right will you.

Butch




Care to give me an example of where I criticised (presuming you mean, as you say, American) your way of speaking?

Pirate

What I am trying to point out to you with sarcasm is you are criticizing people for being arrogant… when you are being arrogant yourself.

That’s ok I am myself but I just wanted you to hear how you came off by parroting your arrogance.


Butch




kdsub -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:21:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NightTigress

I will admit now I am a Canadian, and I know that in a lot of ways Americans are just like us. Yet it is really fun sometimes to take the views of Americans that shows like Canadian Bacon and Talking to Americans give us. Though I know this is a very small magority it is so fun to tease the few that belieave us when we tell them we need to go, our generator is melting the igloo, or that our pet moose ran away. Please do not chase me down with your colection of firearems taht you legaly carry or any of that, I know that is a small part of your people, adn there are lots of cool Americans that I could nto tell from Canadians. I Guess the problem is that the media has really only tryed to make America look stupid, we could probably get teh same or worse from any other country.



We forgive you NightTigress because at heart we know you are our most northern State...will almost..[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m9.gif[/image]




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:35:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Will the Merriam-Webster Dictionary define American as a citizen of the United States...at least one of the definitions so it must be true.

OOPS sorry I mean bloody arrogantly true.

Butch


The first definition given for American in the Websters dictionary is as an adjective meaning "of or in America"
The first definition given for America (the entry above) is "North America,South America and the West Indies,considered together.

This is a U.S. publication

It is also a term for the aboriginal inhabitants of America and their descendants (apply the above definition in interpreting this), this is a thread about "americanness"

Pirate




piratecommander -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 8:41:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What I am trying to point out to you with sarcasm is you are criticizing people for being arrogant… when you are being arrogant yourself.

That’s ok I am myself but I just wanted you to hear how you came off by parroting your arrogance.


Butch


Err ... I have the awful feeling I've been stereotyped, so I will have to ask, what exactly have I been arrogant about, my criticism is plain, yes, but criticism is not arrogance, this is a debate still, I presume, so in what way do you consider me to have been arrogant?

Pirate




SpinnerofTales -> RE: americanness (3/1/2009 9:03:04 AM)

quote:

I'm glad someone got 'round to making this point, I missed the earlier part of this topic, but in reading through this, all I can ask is ... how bloody arrogant can people be to assume the identity of a continent instead of dealing with it as component countries, I mean who do they think they are ... the bloody English monarchy? ORIGINAL: piratecommander


I think a few Valiums are called for about now. The country is named "The United States of America"....what would you WANT to call ourselves? No one is going to say/write "citizens of the United States" or "citizens of the United States of America". Hell, more and more people are taking the y and o out of "you" to save writing. USers, USites and USians don't cut it. United Stations makes us sound more like a place to get gas and an oil change than a citizenry. And if we called ourselves Germans, it would confuse the hell out of everyone.

It's to a matter of arrogance or a disreguard for the continents. It's a linguistic decison based on the fact that the only proper name in the United States of America is America.

It's kind of like those of us who live in New York City calling ourselves New Yorkers. It doesn't mean we're putting down the rest of the state of New York.

Of course, if this is the most pressing matter you have to worry about, I congratulate you on your problem free world view.





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