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Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/26/2009 10:05:24 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Fact Check: GOP adrift on small business claim about taxes

WASHINGTON – Claims that President Barack Obama's tax plans are an assault on small business skirt the likelihood that most job-producing small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all.

Obama is proposing to raise taxes on households earning over $250,000 by increasing the rate on the top two tax brackets and limiting deductions, starting in 2011.

Republicans and other critics, knowing they will get little mileage from defending the rich, instead are casting the plan as a tax hit on people who run industrious little companies driving job growth.

That's not likely, according to one in-depth analysis, which found that more than 95 percent of small business owners would be off the hook.

Obama does not propose higher business taxes.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 12:14:01 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Fact Check: GOP adrift on small business claim about taxes


    WASHINGTON – Claims that President Barack Obama's tax plans are an assault on small business skirt the likelihood that most job-producing small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all.

    Obama is proposing to raise taxes on households earning over $250,000 by increasing the rate on the top two tax brackets and limiting deductions, starting in 2011.

    Republicans and other critics, knowing they will get little mileage from defending the rich, instead are casting the plan as a tax hit on people who run industrious little companies driving job growth.

    That's not likely, according to one in-depth analysis, which found that more than 95 percent of small business owners would be off the hook.

    Obama does not propose higher business taxes.


    Taxes will be going up for everyone. Oh, maybe not defined as "income tax on the wealthy"..but already 

    A significant increase in cigarette taxes has pushed the price of a pack to over six dollars in many areas, and as much as $10 dollars in Manahattan. 

    proposals to significantly increase taxes on gasoline to pay for "alternative" energy when we should be building nuclear plants, drilling for oil and natural gas...and save the country first..so we can save the planet another day. You are better protected these days if you are a polar bear than a citizen who works hard and tries to do the right thing.

    carbon caps are going to create even more uncertainty on the part of business to build as the rules of the road and government environmental rules and regulations, and taxes, stifle any risk taking. 

    a VAT tax similiar to what is draining Europe...and on and on. 

    Most of the States are already in trouble and mandates for continuing increased welfare payments when the so called "Stimulus" money runs out will result in increased taxes on the local level, as well as elimination of tax relief on the books now.  New Jersey Governor Corzine is already talking about recinding tax relief to home owners.

    Business across the board is under attack and  GOVERNMENT is being sold to the public as the only answer to problems mostly created by government.

    The retirement nest eggs, the "cushion" against adversity money that people have saved have been cut in half in so many portfolio's.

    And we now have a government that instead of incenting business seems hell bent on destroying business, the very core of capitalism, and continues to advocate populist anti business, anti anyone who has been successful to take those hours of hard work that people have spent building a better life and give the proceds of that work to the losers, the irresponsible, the chaf of society.  We are all truly being forced to be our brothers keeper, his benefactor, because he is ENTITLED  to everything that we have worked so hard to achieve.  Now this radical liberal government  is hell bent on destroying a healthcare system that covers eight-five percent of the population with a healthcare czar because fifteen percent, for whatever reasons, don't have insurance. 

    Within a months time, the liberals in Congress and the ideological radical activist occupying the Oval Office have cast the dye for an economic depression, and a test of the viability of the republic not seen since the 1930s. Politicians who forced the banks to make sub prime loans, who changed the restrictions on FannieMae and FreddieMac on the quality of their porftfolio's, politicans who attacked oversight departments when they submitted memoranda that suggested we were headed for danger in real estate, these same politicans are now raping the U.S. treasury funding a liberal agenda, and turning the United States in the largest sub-prime investment the world has ever seen.

    And we have a President who is measured by his last speech and not his deeds.

    We have politicans making economic choices based on agenda's.  For the first time in our history as a nation, we have put the wrong people in charge.  It is no longer theory, it is fact...the cancer of liberalism has metastasized and is no longer contained. 

    All of these "taxes" kill cosumer confidence, and kill a small buinessman when his "customers" stop shopping for anything but the bear essentials.  The malls are pretty much empty five days a week these days, and retail is in poor shape with stores going out of business, we are putting tens of billions into auto manufacturers who can't sell what is probably one of the best products they have offered the consumer, and Congress is now designing cars that most people won't buy...

    Truthfully, will those of you who feel we are on the right path as a nation instead of self destruction explain why you are so optimistic?  The Soviet Union spent itself into its demise...what door have we gone through since January 20th..the lady or the tiger...

             http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/LadyTige.shtml

    (in reply to rulemylife)
    Profile   Post #: 2
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 12:28:27 AM   
    awmslave


    Posts: 599
    Joined: 3/31/2006
    Status: offline     		Obama helping poor is a temporary illusion. High inflation what Obama with deficit overspending eventually creates will hit the poor hardest. 

    (in reply to rulemylife)
    Profile   Post #: 3
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 12:30:32 AM   
    MasterShake69


    Posts: 752
    Joined: 11/30/2005
    Status: offline     		I think that should have been labeled an editorial. Now one glaring mistake http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/ap_on_go_co/fact_check_budget
    But for one thing, most small businesses don't create jobs. They tend to be lawyers, accountants and other professionals who earn some of their money from partnerships or otherwise organize themselves as a business entity. As well, many small businesses with employees don't earn enough to put their owners over the threshold for the higher tax rates.

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/smallbusiness/a/sbadrives.htm
    "Small business drives the American economy," said Dr. Chad Moutray, Chief Economist for the Office of Advocacy in a press release. "Main Street provides the jobs and spurs our economic growth. American entrepreneurs are creative and productive, and these numbers prove it." Small businesses are job creators. Office of Advocacy funded data and research shows that small businesses represent 99.7 percent of all firms, they create more than half of the private non-farm gross domestic product, and they create 60 to 80 percent of the net new jobs. In 2004, there were an estimated 23,974,500 businesses in the U.S. Of the 5,683,700 firms with employees, 5,666,600 were small firms. The latest data also show that in 2002:
  • women owned 6,492,795 firms;
  • Blacks owned 1,197,988 firms;
  • Hispanics owned 1,574,159 firms;
  • Asians owned 1,105,329 firms; and

    http://economics.about.com/od/smallbigbusiness/a/us_business.htm

    Many visitors from abroad are surprised to learn that even today, the U.S. economy is by no means dominated by giant corporations. Fully 99 percent of all independent enterprises in the country employ fewer than 500 people. These small enterprises account for 52 percent of all U.S. workers, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA). Some 19.6 million Americans work for companies employing fewer than 20 workers, 18.4 million work for firms employing between 20 and 99 workers, and 14.6 million work for firms with 100 to 499 workers. By contrast, 47.7 million Americans work for firms with 500 or more employees. Small businesses are a continuing source of dynamism for the American economy. They produced three-fourths of the economy's new jobs between 1990 and 1995, an even larger contribution to employment growth than they made in the 1980s. They also represent an entry point into the economy for new groups. Women, for instance, participate heavily in small businesses. The number of female-owned businesses climbed by 89 percent, to an estimated 8.1 million, between 1987 and 1997, and women-owned sole proprietorships were expected to reach 35 percent of all such ventures by the year 2000. Small firms also tend to hire a greater number of older workers and people who prefer to work part-time.




    (in reply to rulemylife)
    • Profile   Post #: 4
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 7:38:12 AM   
    aravain


    Posts: 1211
    Joined: 8/26/2008
    Status: offline     		Feel better after the bit of a rant?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: corysub

    we should be building nuclear plants, drilling for oil and natural gas...


    I couldn't agree more on the first, and disagree more on the last two. Perpetrating the gross over-need for oil and natural gas for even just a bit longer (while effectively removing HUGE tracts of land that could otherwise be used to stimulate the economy more effectively) would be a silly thing to do. It makes sense to have nuclear power, it's cheap, effective, and the benefits really *do* outweigh the costs... but we need to be focusing the land that we'd otherwise drill on for development, and other things that actually stimulate the economy and will ensure our future. You know, that place where our children, and grandchildren, will live?

    quote:


    And we have a President who is measured by his last speech and not his deeds.


    How is this different... from *any* other president while they were in office, ever? People like to be comforted, and hearing someone speak will make them forget about what they're doing. The same was true of Bush, the same was true of Clinton. I don't exactly remember the Bush Sr. years to note on those, but that's 16 years right there where what you suggested... is the norm :P

    quote:


    We have politicans making economic choices based on agenda's.


    Again, how is this different from *any* other time in the past 16 or more years? *ALL* politicians have an agenda, FYI, otherwise they wouldn't BE politicians.

    quote:

    The malls are pretty much empty five days a week these days, and retail is in poor shape with stores going out of business,


    If you say so... I've seen the opposite. The malls around here are pretty crowded almost all the time. Granted, I don't think it's because people are buying things left and right, but they're social places as much as anything. The food court's probably making good. Most of the stores around here are doing well, too... of course they're not really 'small business' places.

    Everything else has pretty much be beaten to death... but these points were interesting.

    (in reply to corysub)
    Profile   Post #: 5
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 7:59:25 AM   
    Coldwarrior57


    Posts: 297
    Joined: 12/27/2008
    Status: offline     		From the Gov.
    the TOP 1 % of tax payers pay 30 % of the tax, yet they earn only 18 % of the total income.
    its wrong to have a sliding tax scale.
    EVERY one over 18 that has a job  or income should pay 10 of their income.
    the gov should learn to live with in its means.

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    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:30:07 AM   
    aravain


    Posts: 1211
    Joined: 8/26/2008
    Status: offline     		We'll have to agree to disagree there. Like, forever. Even if I was wealthy and earning enough to have to pay 30% of my taxes, I'd do it happily... because I could afford it.

    Why do people need Mansions? Yachts? Pointless things that take up space and provide absolutely nothing?

    They don't.

    If I ever have enough money... all I want to do is buy a small flat, or a tiny house would be better, with only a few rooms (a bedroom, a full kitchen, a full bathroom, and a living room) and I'll be *more* than happy with that much property, thanks. Truth be told, I'd probably not even use the living room, maybe convert it to a guest bedroom?

    I don't understand the need for 20 room houses. Hell, I don't understand the need for more than three bedrooms for a family with four children. I think it's silly to suggest that you (univeral) need the extra money accrued by your wealth to by more/bigger things.

    (in reply to Coldwarrior57)
    Profile   Post #: 7
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:36:48 AM   
    thishereboi


    Posts: 14463
    Joined: 6/19/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain

    We'll have to agree to disagree there. Like, forever. Even if I was wealthy and earning enough to have to pay 30% of my taxes, I'd do it happily... because I could afford it.

    Why do people need Mansions? Yachts? Pointless things that take up space and provide absolutely nothing?
    Why do people need video games? Why do people need fancy cars? And more importantly why do people find the need to put down others for being succesful and earning the money to buy these things?


    They don't.

    If I ever have enough money... all I want to do is buy a small flat, or a tiny house would be better, with only a few rooms (a bedroom, a full kitchen, a full bathroom, and a living room) and I'll be *more* than happy with that much property, thanks. Truth be told, I'd probably not even use the living room, maybe convert it to a guest bedroom?
    If that is the way you want to live your life, please by all means live that way and enjoy it. To turn around and tell someone else how to live and spend the money they worked for is pointless. If it's your money then that is a different story, but you didn't say that.

    I don't understand the need for 20 room houses. Hell, I don't understand the need for more than three bedrooms for a family with four children. I think it's silly to suggest that you (univeral) need the extra money accrued by your wealth to by more/bigger things.
    The extra money was accrued by THEIR wealth. They earned it and have the right to spend it any way they like. Why does it bother you so much that someone else spent their cash on a big house. Do you think they should have sent it to you instead?



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    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 8
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:38:51 AM   
    aravain


    Posts: 1211
    Joined: 8/26/2008
    Status: offline     		yes, actually, to your last question. It would have been used more effectively, at least. 

    (in reply to thishereboi)
    Profile   Post #: 9
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:41:36 AM   
    thishereboi


    Posts: 14463
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    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain

    yes, actually, to your last question. It would have been used more effectively, at least. 


    Well I hate to burst your bubble, but I really doubt your going to get many checks in the mail. If you want nice things, go out and earn the money yourself. No one owes you anything.

    Edited to add...and no that would not be more effective, you would just go out and blow it on another video game.

    < Message edited by thishereboi -- 2/27/2009 8:42:58 AM >

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    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 10
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:50:09 AM   
    aravain


    Posts: 1211
    Joined: 8/26/2008
    Status: offline     		Nope, I would actually spend it on medical bills or college costs.

    I haven't bought a video game with my own money (discounting an amazon gift certificate given to me precisely for the purpose of buying video games) since I was in High School, actually. I borrow most of the games I play from friends and/or family.

    And I can make do with the games that I *do* own, and don't generally like new ones. :P

    And if it was enough to pay off all the debt... well, then it'd go into savings for when next year's tuition is due, or to wait for when I next need groceries this summer (you know, in order to eat at all), or off to charity.

    So... swing and a miss really.

    (in reply to thishereboi)
    Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 8:54:33 AM   
    thishereboi


    Posts: 14463
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain

    Nope, I would actually spend it on medical bills or college costs.

    I haven't bought a video game with my own money (discounting an amazon gift certificate given to me precisely for the purpose of buying video games) since I was in High School, actually. I borrow most of the games I play from friends and/or family.

    And I can make do with the games that I *do* own, and don't generally like new ones. :P

    And if it was enough to pay off all the debt... well, then it'd go into savings for when next year's tuition is due, or to wait for when I next need groceries this summer (you know, in order to eat at all), or off to charity.

    So... swing and a miss really.



    Maybe, maybe not. You still have told me why it bothers you so much how other people spend their money? Why it bothers you so much that others have bigger houses? Why you think you have the right to tell other people how to spend the money they have earned? You're only 21, maybe after you have worked for a while and had to pay for the house you live in, you might think differently. Then again you might hit 40 and still think the world owes you something. Only time will tell.

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    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:00:58 AM   
    aravain


    Posts: 1211
    Joined: 8/26/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: thishereboi
    You still have told me why it bothers you so much how other people spend their money? Why it bothers you so much that others have bigger houses? Why you think you have the right to tell other people how to spend the money they have earned? You're only 21, maybe after you have worked for a while and had to pay for the house you live in, you might think differently. Then again you might hit 40 and still think the world owes you something. Only time will tell.


    In order, the answers to your questions are:

    -Because more often than not it's wasted (and not in ways that will at least benefit society
    -Because it's a waste (of space AND money)
    -I don't, but I have the right to tell them that they're wasting their money, and to write to my congress-people to say 'yo, if they're going to waste all this money, at least lets have some of it go to good?' Part of the point of HAVING a society is that everyone has a safety net and will help their fellow man when they can. Just because some people who want to be part of a society don't think that this should apply to them doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be required to give back to that same society that gave to them.

    I also don't think the world owes me anything. I think that every individual in our society owes the society (including me) to better it, including (and especially) those that can afford to give back.

    (in reply to thishereboi)
    Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:25:30 AM   
    NeedToUseYou


    Posts: 2297
    Joined: 12/24/2005
    From: None of your business
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain
    In order, the answers to your questions are:

    -Because more often than not it's wasted (and not in ways that will at least benefit society
    -Because it's a waste (of space AND money)
    -I don't, but I have the right to tell them that they're wasting their money, and to write to my congress-people to say 'yo, if they're going to waste all this money, at least lets have some of it go to good?' Part of the point of HAVING a society is that everyone has a safety net and will help their fellow man when they can. Just because some people who want to be part of a society don't think that this should apply to them doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be required to give back to that same society that gave to them.

    I also don't think the world owes me anything. I think that every individual in our society owes the society (including me) to better it, including (and especially) those that can afford to give back.



    You know if they saved the money like you said you would do with the excess if it were yours, it actually would have a greater negative short term impact. Building million dollar houses, well probably a 1/3 or more of that was spent on labor. Plus, they now have to pay taxes on a million dollar house, which is going to be a lot more than on a 100K house. If they buy a new car every year, well, it means they are taking a depreciation loss and someone will be able to buy pretty nice used vehicle. Anyway, the rich like their toys that is why they work for them. 

    If the rich spent all there money there wouldn't be a problem with wealth division actually. The reason ultimately that the divide occurs is because they are able to SAVE a larger percentage of their money than normal people, and on average that keeps them ahead of the game (not in the last year, unless they shorted everything).

    However, with all of that said, I do agree we buy shit that is not made to last. thus instead of buying a good washer that will last for decades, we now get washers that last 5 years or less. Building shit better IMO, would help everyone, and keeping the money in the system, instead of exporting the cash when purchasing an item, would help tremendously.

    But the wealthy eating 500 dollar meals is a good thing, that means that someone else now has that 500 bucks. Big houses drain money they don't make money, meaning they need a pool man, a land scaper, they have to pay a big property tax bill, etc...

    Anyway, encouraging the rich to flaunt is about the only way to get the money back into the system, without discouraging effort.

    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:32:45 AM   
    SpinnerofTales


    Posts: 1586
    Joined: 5/30/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: thishereboi

    [Well I hate to burst your bubble, but I really doubt your going to get many checks in the mail. If you want nice things, go out and earn the money yourself. No one owes you anything.



    Boi is right, Avian....if you want nice things, you should go out and run a $50,000,000 ponzi scheme, create investment products that drive the economy into the toilet or work with the vice president so that when we we go to war you're given billions with no questions asked.

    And yes, I know that I might, not without justification, be accused in this post of conservative poking, but it's just sooooo much fun sometimes.

    < Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 2/27/2009 9:33:23 AM >

    (in reply to thishereboi)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:37:40 AM   
    MasterShake69


    Posts: 752
    Joined: 11/30/2005
    Status: offline     		Why do people need fancy clothing?  why do people need new cars? Why do people need this or that?  All that people really need is basic, food, water and shelter.  why not give up all money they earn beyond whats needed for the basic essentials???
    Because living life with just the bare, basic essentials isn’t really living life.






    (in reply to thishereboi)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:50:07 AM   
    RacerJim


    Posts: 1583
    Joined: 1/1/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: thishereboi
    You still have told me why it bothers you so much how other people spend their money? Why it bothers you so much that others have bigger houses? Why you think you have the right to tell other people how to spend the money they have earned? You're only 21, maybe after you have worked for a while and had to pay for the house you live in, you might think differently. Then again you might hit 40 and still think the world owes you something. Only time will tell.


    In order, the answers to your questions are:

    -Because more often than not it's wasted (and not in ways that will at least benefit society
    -Because it's a waste (of space AND money)
    -I don't, but I have the right to tell them that they're wasting their money, and to write to my congress-people to say 'yo, if they're going to waste all this money, at least lets have some of it go to good?' Part of the point of HAVING a society is that everyone has a safety net and will help their fellow man when they can. Just because some people who want to be part of a society don't think that this should apply to them doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be required to give back to that same society that gave to them.

    I also don't think the world owes me anything. I think that every individual in our society owes the society (including me) to better it, including (and especially) those that can afford to give back.



    Since you want to live in socialistic society why are you still living in America?  

    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 9:59:18 AM   
    SpinnerofTales


    Posts: 1586
    Joined: 5/30/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: RacerJim

    Since you want to live in socialistic society why are you still living in America?  


    Uh...maybe because it's his right as an American not only to be a socialist but to campaign peacfully for the adoption of any socialist agenda he likes. Just like you have the right to campaign peacfully for whatever agenda strikes your fancy.

    At NO time did the requirement to be a capitalist come up in the constitution for citizenship.

    Let's leave our "America, Love it or Leave it" sentiments neatly hidden under our "God is a Republican" baseball hats, shall we?

    (in reply to RacerJim)
    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 10:04:15 AM   
    sirsholly


    Posts: 42360
    Joined: 9/7/2007
    From: Quietville
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: aravain

    Nope, I would actually spend it on medical bills or college costs.


    so why did you go to college? Probably for the same reasons the rest of us did....to get a good paying job so you can live comfortably. Each of us has our own way of living comfortably and it is not up to anyone to criticize.


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    (in reply to aravain)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: Another lie about Obama put to rest - 2/27/2009 10:18:05 AM   
    housesub4you


    Posts: 1879
    Joined: 4/2/2008
    Status: offline     		aravain

    Ahhhh....I have noticed that it is always the have nots, telling the haves they are wasting their money on large homes, boats, you name it, they want it, but think since they have not earned it, everyone else should not have it either.

    I started working at 14 and never stopped, until I retired last year.  I made my money work for me, I took risks, some I lost; most I succeeded with.  If you want bigger better toys for yourself or family, go earn them and take the risk.  It's very easy to sit on the bench and bitch.

    I have a big house for my family, a vacation home for my family, college for my children, and I travel more than I stay home.  Should I feel guilty, Hell NO, I worked for every penny I earned.

    I pay my share of taxes and I don't bitch about paying them, because this country gave me the chance to earn it.  Do I always agree with what my government does with my tax money Nope, but so far it the best system on this planet that I have seen.  For the record, not that it matters I have been a Dem all my life and don't plan on changing


    (in reply to sirsholly)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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