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Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:13:18 AM   
Carmeldelight


Posts: 139
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Open Letter to the New York Post
FEBRUARY 19 2009. Posted by JOHN LEGEND Dear Editor: I'm trying to understand what possible motivation you may have had for publishing that vile cartoon depicting the shooting of the chimpanzee that went crazy. I guess you thought it would be funny to suggest that whomever was responsible for writing the Economic Recovery legislation must have the intelligence and judgment of a deranged, violent chimpanzee, and should be shot to protect the larger community. Really? Did it occur to you that this suggestion would imply a connection between President Barack Obama and the deranged chimpanzee? Did it occur to you that our President has been receiving death threats since early in his candidacy? Did it occur to you that blacks have historically been compared to various apes as a way of racist insult and mockery? Did you intend to invoke these painful themes when you printed the cartoon? If that's not what you intended, then it was stupid and willfully ignorant of you not to connect these easily connectable dots. If it is what you intended, then you obviously wanted to be grossly provocative, racist and offensive to the sensibilities of most reasonable Americans. Either way, you should not have printed this cartoon, and the fact that you did is truly reprehensible. I can't imagine what possible justification you have for this. I've read your lame statement in response to the outrage you provoked. Shame on you for dodging the real issue and then using the letter as an opportunity to attack Rev. Sharpton. This is not about Rev. Sharpton. It's about the cartoon being blatantly racist and offensive. I believe in freedom of speech, and you have every right to print what you want. But freedom of speech still comes with responsibilities and consequences. You are responsible for printing this cartoon, and I hope you experience some real consequences for it. I'm personally boycotting your paper and won't do any interviews with any of your reporters, and I encourage all of my colleagues in the entertainment business to do so as well. I implore your advertisers to seriously reconsider their business relationships with you as well. You should print an apology in your paper acknowledging that this cartoon was ignorant, offensive and racist and should not have been printed. I'm well aware of our country's history of racism and violence, but I truly believe we are better than this filth. As we attempt to rise above our difficult past and look toward a better future, we don't need the New York Post to resurrect the images of Jim Crow to deride the new administration and put black folks in our place. Please feel free to criticize and honestly evaluate our new President, but do so without the incendiary images and rhetoric. Sincerely,
John Legend
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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:19:33 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Some people need to lighten up

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:24:50 AM   
Carmeldelight


Posts: 139
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry, we do not need to lighten up about this matter, but then again you live in  Ontario, Canada, so I understand your RESPONCE. 

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:26:57 AM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline 		While the cartoon was undoubtedly offensive, I believe that the racist implications implications are far more likely to be drawn from an observer's perspective and probably not part of the intent.  My belief, and certainly debatable.  In the same fashion that Dutch papers drew intense fire for poking fun at Muslims a few years ago, humor is always in the eye of the beholder.  To cite the newspaper as an institution with a public responsibility is true to a point, but the free speech argument is more important in my mind.  If one wishes to organize a public protest or boycott, it is an absolutely appropriate choice to make.  I disagree with an objective morality argument against the paper however. 

yours


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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:33:16 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       People who don't have a sense of humor shouldn't read cartoons.  Mr. whoever-the-fuck-he-is, and whatever friends he has in the entertainment industry are welcome to their opinion.

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:36:58 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		I think I'm going to subscribe to the Post just to balance out shit like this.

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:37:43 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Carmel:
Did you see the cartoon in the paper the day it was published or did you only get upset after someone told you what a racist slam it was?  Don't bother to answer.

I didn't see any humor in the picture but I also didn't see any racial undertones either.  I understood where the artist was going but I don't think he came close at all from a humor perspective.  My interpretaion was that the image was meant to portray the writers of the ERL as a bunch of idiots. 

I won't begin to discuss weather the ERL is good, bad, or anything else.  Plenty being written about that already.

And yes, Carmel, you really should lighten up.  I really hope there are more pressing issues in your life.  Do we never learn to just ignore things like this?  They WILL go away.

~Dave

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 9:03:35 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I think the cartoon was supposed to be a play on an old adage, which went something like, if thousands of  monkeys banged away at thousands of typewriters for thousands of years, eventually they might come up with the works of Shakespeare or whatever.

So, if a monkey randomly banged away on a typewriter it could easily come up with something resembling the trillion dollars worth of pork and waste that's being sold to us as a fraudulent "stimulus" package (which Obama refused to allow anyone to read before Congress voted on it).




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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 9:50:02 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Fuck it, I am a blanko, a cracker, a honky. Wasn't I evolved from lower primatres as well ? I have seen plenty of cartoons that poke fun of my "kind". I have seen many very derogatory cartoons depicting Bush with the big ears and features that are not quite complimentary. A good source for these is the AFP actually, and some deem them racist, yet they published some very not-nice cartoons of Bush and nobody said a word.

So get the fuck over it. Don't buy their paper. Do whatever you think you should. But I for one am getting sick and tired of handling certain peoples with kid gloves. There are so many good jokes that can't be told, so many quotes even that can't be quoted and so forth.

There is one other  requirement in a society that embodies free speech, that the people have skin. I can take a joke about myself, my race whatever, even a joke about me peronally, why can't others.

Grow up. Remember the old saying about sticks and stones.

Conversely you can blow this out of proportion to the point where even on CM your thread will be dead before it hits the webpage. I mean  it, GET OVER IT.

I can get over it, so  if other peoples and races are as good as me, they should be able to get over it as well, right ? Call me wrong, I'll be back.

T

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 9:53:31 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		OK Im gonna bite, what does living in canada have to do with anything??

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 9:57:05 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Carmeldelight

I truly believe we are better than this filth.

And there you have the author's motive, namely, to present himself as an exemplar of that better "we". People who suffer from a desperate need to derive their self-esteem from deprecating others are liable to engineer anything at all into an opportunity to do so, and the merits of such "us" and "them" arguments are invariably secondary to their purpose.
 
K.
 
 
 
 

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 9:58:15 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		What he said!

Term: I'm with you, man.
OK, so electing a black man in 2008 won't erase 100's of years of oppression, but ferchrissakes, let's all grow-the-hell-up just a little!  What a FuckedUpPoliticallyCorrectGoddamnHateCrimeMotherFuckinCan'tTakeAJokeBullShit society we live in.

OK, I feel better now.  Time to take the UM's rollerskating :)

~Dave

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 10:47:18 AM   
MistresseLotus


Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline 		Equality isn't as fun as you thought?  Case in point  (I think only George's mother gets upset.)

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 1:01:13 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Half drunk in a roomful of people of quite diverse ethnicities this came up, you can make jokes about any race.

They started, Irish. I responded "Fuckable ? count legs, less than three and...., but this does not apply to ......". (let's not go there)

Puerto Ricans, I had a few good ones, especially about their cars. (jumper cable payments come to mind, they had no conception of having a working alternator in their car, at least back then)

Then it came about, "What about you ? " I said "Polak ? Hmmm, "Well unlike the rest of you I have enough lumber in the attic to build a new house in case this one burns down".

We actually went around the room. Everybody had a good laugh, know why ? We were all adults with a skin. Even the Black jokes, the Black guys in the room (this was one of those boys night out deals) would laugh at the joke and say something like "Yeah, you right, you are absolutley right". Yes it was a good night. Good people.

This sword of PCness has a third side. Why can I tell an Arab joke but not a Black or Jew joke ? Jokes are generally stereotypical in nature yet some people brush them off like a raindrop, while others scream bloody murder about it. It is people's opinions that determine this, and therefore has very little bearing on the content of the joke. We all have shortcomings and some are traits in a way. No matter what the influence that caused this, what's wrong with a little bit of humor ? 

If you laugh with somebody, you laugh more than if you only have the capacity to laugh at others. In other words, if things are fair, which I would hope is the ultimate goal, we can also laugh at ourselves. If you want to crack jokes about my Gramps Stas (Stash), I might appreciate some of them and just say "yep, that's the way he was". A stereotype that no longer applies, so what ? Why would it offend me ? And all that in the light that I had more respect for my Grampa than anyone else in the world, hence or before. A joke just does not constitute an offense to me. It might be in poor taste. Like the one about flushing the punch bowl, that is not appreciated but in the end run the result was that I was not offended because it it so off the wall. Nobody thinks that. But what I think of someone who tells that joke is not complimentary. I think them of lower intelligence if thats the best they can do.

Be like that and we can possibly move on from petty issues like this onto something more useful, like how we are going to survive in the next decade or so.

I actually have to add, people who are secure in their intellect and whatever else don't jump on these things. It is like if you have seven kids and have never touched another Man in you life, if someone calls you a fag you brush it off. It is if you have doubts then it becomes an issue. Being called stupid does not bother me because I know that I am not. The youngers being chided by the olders about having long hair, take a picture because I think most of the the time the older is going bald. That is a derivitive from an old American Native prophesy that I really can't even quote right now, but the idea stuck in my head for many years. I think it true.

So is Sharpton insecure in his "humanhood", afraid that some people might see something he would rather they not see ? There is no way to tell without getting into his head which is impossible. Therefore we can only go by his words and actions.

What's more, if this cartoon was directed at Obama, what does he have to say about it ? Most likely he just refuses to dignify it with a response. That's pretty much what I would do. It's really not a good joke.

T

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 1:05:50 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Not sure what a closed letter would look like or who'd be able to read it.

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 1:54:23 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		I have reviewed this cartoon many times. All I can say is anyone who sees racisim in it is a fucking moron Muck Raker. Any PETA person who see's issue with it...... you hopefully PETA already knows I feel about them from the letters I've sent. Any President who is offended by it only has the actual bill to read to see why the cartoon was drawn in the first place.

Anyone who wants to continue trying to make this NON-ISSUE and Actual Issue need to get something more productive to do in their free time.

Steel

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 4:12:36 PM   
allyC


Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		The political cartoon did not in any way imply that it was specifically comparing Obama to a chimpanzee.   If you google the three words: George Bush chimpanzee and search images, you will get over 500,000 images - most of which directly compare his likeness to a chimpanzee. I am so tired of the oversensitivity about these things.   Well wishes, Cav's ally    

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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 4:36:07 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Carmeldelight

Open Letter to the New York Post
FEBRUARY 19 2009. Posted by JOHN LEGEND Dear Editor: I'm trying to understand what possible motivation you may have had for publishing that vile cartoon depicting the shooting of the chimpanzee that went crazy. I guess you thought it would be funny to suggest that whomever was responsible for writing the Economic Recovery legislation must have the intelligence and judgment of a deranged, violent chimpanzee, and should be shot to protect the larger community. Really? Did it occur to you that this suggestion would imply a connection between President Barack Obama and the deranged chimpanzee? Did it occur to you that our President has been receiving death threats since early in his candidacy? Did it occur to you that blacks have historically been compared to various apes as a way of racist insult and mockery? Did you intend to invoke these painful themes when you printed the cartoon? If that's not what you intended, then it was stupid and willfully ignorant of you not to connect these easily connectable dots. If it is what you intended, then you obviously wanted to be grossly provocative, racist and offensive to the sensibilities of most reasonable Americans. Either way, you should not have printed this cartoon, and the fact that you did is truly reprehensible. I can't imagine what possible justification you have for this. I've read your lame statement in response to the outrage you provoked. Shame on you for dodging the real issue and then using the letter as an opportunity to attack Rev. Sharpton. This is not about Rev. Sharpton. It's about the cartoon being blatantly racist and offensive. I believe in freedom of speech, and you have every right to print what you want. But freedom of speech still comes with responsibilities and consequences. You are responsible for printing this cartoon, and I hope you experience some real consequences for it. I'm personally boycotting your paper and won't do any interviews with any of your reporters, and I encourage all of my colleagues in the entertainment business to do so as well. I implore your advertisers to seriously reconsider their business relationships with you as well. You should print an apology in your paper acknowledging that this cartoon was ignorant, offensive and racist and should not have been printed. I'm well aware of our country's history of racism and violence, but I truly believe we are better than this filth. As we attempt to rise above our difficult past and look toward a better future, we don't need the New York Post to resurrect the images of Jim Crow to deride the new administration and put black folks in our place. Please feel free to criticize and honestly evaluate our new President, but do so without the incendiary images and rhetoric. Sincerely,
John Legend


One word:

Paragraphs.

(in reply to Carmeldelight)
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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 5:12:41 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, so far, I see this entire issue as an incredible expression of the way freedom of speech can work if left alone. Why? Good question.

The post put out a cartoon that was offensive to many people. This was their right under the first amendment.

The people who were offended spoke of their offense. In fact, they've brought to light a lot of feelings and issues that might otherwise not been so openly discussed. Again, this is their first amendment right.

A boycott has been advocated and those who find the Post to be objectionable are voting with their dollars not to support the publication. Again, perfectly according to their first amendment rights. The right to free speech carries with it another's right not to listen.

So, as long as the government doesn't decide to take a hand in this and take legal action either against the Post or those protesters against it, it's petty damn near a textbook example of why I love the first amendment.


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RE: Open Letter to the New York Post - 2/28/2009 8:20:20 PM   
MasterShake69


Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline 		Now critics are calling for the cartoonist to be fired.  Then when they don’t get what they want them they protest all across the country.  And they are calling for the newspaper to be sold.  Also they want more minorities at foxnews channel.   As always there cry of racism was nothing but politically motivated BS.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/21/chimp.cartoon/index.html

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Leaders of the NAACP on Saturday called for the firing of the New York Post cartoonist whose drawing lampooning the federal stimulus bill has drawn charges that it's racist and encourages violence toward President Obama.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/naacp.protest.fox.2.944531.html

Feb 26, 2009 10:04 am US/Eastern NAACP To Protest News Corp Nationwide Over Cartoon Demonstrations To Be Held Outside Local Fox Television Stations In More Than 50 Cities
Dozens of protests are planned on Thursday nationwide over the controversial chimp cartoon in the New York Post.

The NAACP says demonstrations will be held outside local television stations owned by Fox in more than 50 cities.

News Corp. owns The Post, Fox News and the local Fox stations.

The civil rights organization is calling on the station to protest last week's cartoon, which critics say compares President Barack Obama with a violent chimpanzee shot dead in Connecticut.

The group is also angry at what critics call racial insensitivity and a lack of diversity at the station and the Fox News network.

Rev. Al Sharpton circulated an electronic petition over the weekend asking the FCC to review policies allowing Post owner News Corp. to control multiple media outlets in the same market, and he said he would ask the city to stop advertising in and even subscribing to the newspaper.

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