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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 12:19:04 PM   
FullCircle


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I see you are intent on quibbling.
 
I always liked the death by misadventure verdict, covers a multitude of things.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 12:19:11 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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I think much of the problem is based on the ignorance of the people who authorize these wind farms. There is no denying that regardless of what we do some birds will die. However I believe that it can be minimzed. Whether in person or in pictures, any wind farm I have ever seen always has all white (save one cyan blue) windmills. Why are they all white? Because it is considered to make them visually appealing in the grand scheme of things. It may just be this monotone coloration that causes the problem with the birds. I think tests and research should be conducted to vary the color of each blade or put dots, stripes (whatever) on the blades that might make them more visible to the birds.

Green energy is a good thing for the environment regardless of the small impact on the surrounding wildlife. But if we can do something to minimize the wildlife problem, I say screw the visual appeal. People will eventually get used to seeing it that way and eventually block it out mentally.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 12:23:16 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I see you are intent on quibbling.
 
I always liked the death by misadventure verdict, covers a multitude of things.
My apologies FullCircle,not looking to quibble.....just trying to nail down how old Benedict died....Cory has me so confused....

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 12:23:36 PM   
domiguy


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Some wind farms reduce running their blades at night to try and reduce the killing of migratory birds and bats. Cory, It has been known for quite sometime that wind energy kills birds and bats. 

You must be really pissed off as to  how Bush was treated.  You have to remember that guy was a complete turd. That fucker didn't even like to read.  Every chance you get you have nothing better to do than to criticize Obama over completely meaningless shit.  You are delusional.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 12:55:32 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

One thought occured to me when I saw a pull quote from this thread on CM's Home page:
a) In addition to Ted Kennedy, how many other Demoncrap proponents of large windmill farms oppose same in their own backyard?


Demoncrap?

As always, a classy well-thought response.

Way to go Jimbo!

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 1:13:24 PM   
MiLadyDiane


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Actually , a lot of the problem with birds and windmill farms if the fact that the windmills cause turbulance in the air around them and cause birds to be sucked in . California was talking about that I think in the 80s.  Here in Texas , they are putting a LOT of windmill farms in , mostly out in the wide open spaces like West Texas.  I am not sure about the Bald Eagle areas that the Native Americans are speaking of since I have not read the article , but to MY knowledge , Bald Eagles are fishing birds and like to be located around lakes . Around here , what lakes you have are surrounded by trees, which are not areas that the big windfarm companies would bother with because you can't plant miles of straight rows of windmills without a lot of trouble like you can out west. 

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 2:46:03 PM   
Irishknight


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What is wrong with being responsible about where we place them?  There is a great deal of open territory in which wind farms could be built without endangering the eagles.  It might require someone having to do a bit of investigation but that would be providing a legitimate job for someone in this country.  We couldn't have that.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 2:56:06 PM   
corysub


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The point here is not as much the eagles..but the "fact" that nothing happens in this country until an environmental impact study is completed and approved by the EPA!  Want to start a grass roots power generating plant..figure 2-3 years..a nuclear plant...figure 5-6 years...before EPA approvals and the project becomes "shovel ready"..the new bumper sticker of the day.
Green is great but NIMBY.  There will be court cases and blocks by environmental groups that did no expect to see a windmill, a tidal plant, a solar farm,  in the middle of their 'Preserve"..their "fishing ground"...their beautiful hills and mountains.  Gonna be real interesting to see "Green v Green" on this one.  To me that may be our salvation with the democrats in control of both houses of Congress and the Executive Branch.  "Viva attorneys"!!!

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 3:24:00 PM   
kittinSol


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Good god  .

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 4:33:06 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

he money hasn't even been let out to contract and already the building of thousands of windmills across he land is generating protests from the native americans who love and honor the land, probably more than most. What politicans fail to learn is that every action they take, particularly in a hurried manner as the stimulus bill, has those dern "unintended consequences"...akin I guess, to collateral damage.
ORIGINAL: corysub


Cory, you gave me a good laugh. We all know how much stock the Republican party and the neo-cons have put into the Native American community. We all know just how strong their environmental commitment is (One of Bush's last executive orders was one allowing the builders of a project to determine if their plan will negatively impact endangered species).

Why not just come out with a post that says "Everthing Obama has done, is doing and will do is awful and will ruin this country" and save yourself 3 years, 10 months worth of postings?

Once again, I would really like to see the cons come up with some ideas rather than just yelling "no, no, no!" like a two year old having a tantrum.



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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 4:36:56 PM   
Nycteris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


The money hasn't even been let out to contract and already the building of thousands of windmills across he land is generating protests from the native americans who love and honor the land, probably more than most.  What politicans fail to learn is that every action they take, particularly in a hurried manner as the stimulus bill, has those dern "unintended consequences"...akin I guess, to collateral damage.

                                     http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-221580


Windmills are a waste of money, if they actually worked, some genius would already be making millions in profits from it.  Think about it, then get over whatever you have to say, cuz I dont care.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 6:12:03 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

think about it, then get over whatever you have to say, cuz I dont care.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nycteris


The open mindedness of some people is astounding, isn't it?


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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 6:17:00 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I see you are intent on quibbling.
 
I always liked the death by misadventure verdict, covers a multitude of things.
My apologies FullCircle,not looking to quibble.....just trying to nail down how old Benedict died....Cory has me so confused....


sorry.....

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 8:12:28 PM   
Vendaval


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Well stated, MasterG2kTR.  I view situations like this as an opportunity for wildlife biologists, the windmill engineers and the local Native Americans to find ways to minimize the damage to the eagles and maximize the energy of the windmills.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR
There is no denying that regardless of what we do some birds will die. However I believe that it can be minimzed.


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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 9:45:40 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

he money hasn't even been let out to contract and already the building of thousands of windmills across he land is generating protests from the native americans who love and honor the land, probably more than most. What politicans fail to learn is that every action they take, particularly in a hurried manner as the stimulus bill, has those dern "unintended consequences"...akin I guess, to collateral damage.
ORIGINAL: corysub


Cory, you gave me a good laugh. We all know how much stock the Republican party and the neo-cons have put into the Native American community. We all know just how strong their environmental commitment is (One of Bush's last executive orders was one allowing the builders of a project to determine if their plan will negatively impact endangered species).

Why not just come out with a post that says "Everthing Obama has done, is doing and will do is awful and will ruin this country" and save yourself 3 years, 10 months worth of postings?

Once again, I would really like to see the cons come up with some ideas rather than just yelling "no, no, no!" like a two year old having a tantrum.


Thank you so much for my opening sentence. 

Everything Obama has done, is doing , and will do, is awful and will ruin this country!  The question is..does his adminsistratin have 3 years, 10 months ahead for further postings...I think not.  In a perfect world he will resign from the job, take two weeks severence and move to a cave in the rockies and live happily ever after with.....Chris Matthews.     
                                                                                       

Seriously, I can't think of any legislation that has gone through the Congess that attracted zero "aye's" in the House other than the 1993 vote during the Clinton Administratin on the budget that was followed by that memorable voting result in 1994 when the democrats lost control to the republicans.  "From my lips to Gods ears"...the arragance shown by Pelosi, Reid, and the aloof Mr. Obama will be similarly rewarded.

Obama keeps talking about bi-partisanship the way a religious zealot talks about bi-sexual..."love thy neighbor if he is a man but not in my neighborhood".  Within six weeks time, every republican submission for the stimulus bill was eliminated from the legislation (we won..claimed the street activist President), the country has been put on a course that will destroy the healthcare system for 300,000,000 Americans with a "european style Big Government national healthcare) to give free healthcare to 15% of the population and with a "health czar or czarina" whose bureaucrat G-12 employees will tell your doctor, and more importantly mine, what the diagnosis and therapy for our medical problems will be, or face penalties.  Enjoy the waiting period for elective surgery, x-rays, bone replacements currently enjoyed by the people of the United Kingdom. 

Within six weeks time even Governors of hard pressed States are turning down billions of dollars from the massive spending program disguised as a "stimulus" since there are more strings attached to the money than strands in a spiders web, strings that will eliminate the caps on welfare enacted during the Clinton era, with a little pressure from the republican Congress, and saddle already bankrupt States with massive ongoing costs after the "stimulus" money runs out in two years!

The business of government IS government...and the business of business IS business.  WTF does Pelosi, Barney Frank, Reid, Rangle, Dodd, Leahy, et al (sorry I left out the intern in the White House) know about the "business" of getting our country out of the financial and economic mess we are in? 

Neocons, Bushits, wingnuts (as we have been lovingly described by thoughtful libs) would more easily stimulate business by giving business incentives to hire instead of increasing taxes on business owners, freeze any thought of putting a tax on carbon emissions, pushing through anti-business labor laws by taking away the secret ballotof workers, and maintaing the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and eliminate  the outragesous spending in earmark laden legislation. something that I seem to recall this fellow Barack ranted on and on in the primaries as well as recently. Not some people here, but those concerned moderates in the middle of the body politic that believed and gave  "change" their vote in November must truly feel betrayed. 

On these issues neocons and republicans would be proposing contrary legislation.  Your right..I'm really too funny for words.  Enjoy the depression.  A hungry stomach is bi-partisan" and, btw, there are only 18-19 months until the next poll of the American people. 


< Message edited by corysub -- 3/1/2009 9:46:51 PM >

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 10:06:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nycteris

Windmills are a waste of money, if they actually worked, some genius would already be making millions in profits from it.  Think about it, then get over whatever you have to say, cuz I dont care.



Have you not noticed there are many out there already, making money?



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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 10:16:46 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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I`ll give you an analogy.

It starts with a family,a family business and an abusive,drunk loser of a husband(head of household).

The family,us.The family business,our economy.The out of control drunk,recent US leaders bush and the neo-cons.

For 8 long years,to the consternation and pleas of the family to be responsible,the loser hubby(cons) spends the family into debt and runs the business into the ground,to the point that it`s dysfunctional.

Finally the loser get`s tossed out of the home and the task of repairing the families` credit and business(our economy) is put in the hands of the new head of house.Obama.

That guy must do what it takes to turn all the damage and bad faith around.

He must meet with the credit card company's and re-structure the families debts,so that the family business doesn`t completely fail(long term economic depression) and so the family can start to repair credit and good faith.

The loser drunk ex-husband`s friends though(you) aren`t going to have nice things to say about the new husband while being enablers of the ex-husband and his bad habits.

The result of 8 years of dysfunctional leadership,all it`s ramifications and how it all gets cleaned up is the fault of the bad faith player,not the new guy.



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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/1/2009 10:57:00 PM   
TheHeretic


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        As the conservation project has been reintroducing california condors to the wild, they have had to train the birds not to fly into power lines, or through windmills.  Surely bald eagles (beautiful birds) are smarter than the dumbass condor?  They'll figure it out.

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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/2/2009 4:35:56 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
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quote:

Neocons, Bushits, wingnuts (as we have been lovingly described by thoughtful libs) would more easily stimulate business by giving business incentives to hire instead of increasing taxes on business owners, freeze any thought of putting a tax on carbon emissions, pushing through anti-business labor laws by taking away the secret ballotof workers, and maintaing the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and eliminate the outragesous spending in earmark laden legislation. something that I seem to recall this fellow Barack ranted on and on in the primaries as well as recently. Not some people here, but those concerned moderates in the middle of the body politic that believed and gave "change" their vote in November must truly feel betrayed. ORIGINAL: corysub



What you fail to address, Cory is that all of those ideas have been tried. Supply side economics is nothing new. The hands-off, no regulation of business approach has been tried. The idea that tax cuts alone could produce economic stimulus has been given a thorough testing out. And it all failed. It is time for new ideas and that is something the right wing seems to be fresh out of.

As for the fact that none of the republicans in congress voted for the stimulus bill, now that's an interesting point. If all but one or two had voted against it, I might have been able to believe that it was a case of their beliefs that led to their votes. But this was a rather apparent statement of complete unwillingness to work with the new administration. This wasn't  a vote on a particular bill. It was the Republicans banking on either the failure of the stimulus or the short memory of the voters. The Republicans have staked their futures on the failure of this country as a means to regaining power, rather than their part in rebuilding it.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I would feel it a much better thing if the Republicans came up with a single new idea rather than just repeating policies that have been tested and failed miserably.

Insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results.


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RE: Green jobs feeling the possible wrath of Native Ind... - 3/2/2009 5:21:25 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

One thought occured to me when I saw a pull quote from this thread on CM's Home page:
a) In addition to Ted Kennedy, how many other Demoncrap proponents of large windmill farms oppose same in their own backyard?


Demoncrap?

As always, a classy well-thought response.

Way to go Jimbo!


Repuke, Republicon, Neocon, Bushbot, Bu$hit, NeoNazi, etc., etc...ring a bell?

Typical Demoncrap response...hypocritical and fact/truth ignoring.

Thank you!

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