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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 10:24:04 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply~
 
It's good that these are published, they make for good and distracting material. Could that be the reason they were published?

Anyway, it will give people something to read while waiting in the Administration's policy generated, and Congressionally funded, unemployment lines; or sitting in a courtroom listening for their bankruptcy filing number to be called by the Clerk.
"distracting material"....Thats all you got from these memos.
Truly amazing!!!!!

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 3/3/2009 10:25:07 AM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:10:44 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
~ Fast Reply~
 It's good that these are published, they make for good and distracting material. Could that be the reason they were published?

Anyway, it will give people something to read while waiting in the Administration's policy generated, and Congressionally funded, unemployment lines; or sitting in a courtroom listening for their bankruptcy filing number to be called by the Clerk.
"distracting material"....Thats all you got from these memos.
Truly amazing!!!!!

Only trying to be consistent to the Administration. They must only be a distracting reading material or why else publish them? If it were an actionable disclosure the troops in Iraq would already be heading back to the US, authorization of spending tax money there would curtailed, and the perpetrators arrested.

I put this in the same category of a press agent putting out a release so that the performer's 'drunk driving' arrest isn't the only thing on the front page.

However, always happy to "amaze" you - although a representation of reality shouldn't have that effect.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:17:16 AM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
Status: offline 		Merc please explain to me how any memo generated by any Bush administration member would or could have the effect of necessitating an immediate and precipitous withdrawel of American forces from Iraq.Are you sugessting that revelations about the duplicitous way in which we wound up there would lead any American President to just fold up tent and go home,despite the fact that we are there and American blood has now been spilled on Iraqi soil....if this is another representation of reality I would be truly amazed.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:25:08 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Perhaps then you tell me the purpose and goal of releasing internal memos?

You seem to think this is an example of an agenda or faulty logic at best. the only way to be sure that no more "American blood" is spilled as a result of the content disclosed in President Bush's internal memos would be to leave ASAP. Why compound it by staying?

Do the memos make a case to continue the occupation while at the same time point to the reasoning, seen as faulty, they show? The fact that you don't think they do would support my original contention; this information was released to distract, since no other action is warranted by them - according to you.  

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:35:57 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Perhaps then you tell me the purpose and goal of releasing internal memos?

You seem to think this is an example of an agenda or faulty logic at best. the only way to be sure that no more "American blood" is spilled as a result of the content disclosed in President Bush's internal memos would be to leave ASAP. Why compound it by staying?

Do the memos make a case to continue the occupation while at the same time point to the reasoning, seen as faulty, they show? The fact that you don't think they do would support my original contention; this information was released to distract, since no other action is warranted by them - according to you.  


You're discussing two different issues.

The Iraq withdrawal is on schedule as Obama said during his campaign.  He never said there would be an immediate withdrawal and he always said there would be a security force left in place.

The release of the information was also in keeping with what he promised, to have an open administration and correct the mistakes of the past.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:43:19 AM   
RacerJim


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Status: offline 		Since NObama apparently thinks it's okay for him to release some of former President Bush's SECRET documents hopefully the U.S. Supreme Court will think it's okay to demand that NObama release some of his SECRET documents...like the vault copy of his Hawaiian Birth Certificate, his passports, his college applications and student loan documents, and his pre-Illinois State Senator employement and income-tax records.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!    

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 11:43:31 AM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
Status: offline 		Transparency in our government is in and of itself a worthy and attainable goal Merc,and that too is a representative reality...or at least it should be.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 12:40:29 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Perhaps then you tell me the purpose and goal of releasing internal memos?



Could be, Merc...just could be that Obama is walking the tightrope between covering up the dirty laundry and sicking the dogs on the previous administration in reguard to their very possible illegal activities after 9/11. By releasing the memos, he allows the truth be known, and does so without a prosocutor pressing possible charges.

Personally, for whatever reason he decided to do so, I'm in favor of it. I would rather have the facts than not have them.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 12:41:18 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Since NObama apparently thinks it's okay for him to release some of former President Bush's SECRET documents hopefully the U.S. Supreme Court will think it's okay to demand that NObama release some of his SECRET documents...like the vault copy of his Hawaiian Birth Certificate, his passports, his college applications and student loan documents, and his pre-Illinois State Senator employement and income-tax records.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!    


You seem to be confusing personal documents with government documents.

Just because a person is a public figure does not entitle the public to know every aspect of their life.

Government documents, on the other hand, are public knowledge, unless shielded by the infamous need to preserve "national security".

A claim Bush used to hide these documents.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 12:45:09 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

The Iraq withdrawal is on schedule as Obama said during his campaign. 
False, it's already been extended beyond his campaign rhetoric of not approving any more expenditure beyond the last Senate vote approving funding through May 2009.

He latest treatise on the subject extends the war a minimum of 15 months though August 2010. Good news for the locals - they have another year to kill US soldiers for the benefit of protecting 'big oil' interests in the region.

It also makes a representation of permanent US occupation. Oh yeah, he's using terms oddly similar to those used during Vietnam. Back then it was 'military advisers'. Is that lesson still taught in schools?

The Administration now wants to call them things like 'trainers' and 'civilian protectors'. Our soldiers, our money, going to protect non-US civilians. That's the platform President Obama ran on? Not by my memory. Yours?  
quote:

The administration now considers Aug. 31, 2010, the end date for Iraq war operations. That timetable is slower than Obama had promised voters, but still hastens the U.S. exit. Even with the drawdown, a sizable U.S. force of 35,000 to 50,000 U.S. troops will stay in Iraq under a new mission of training, civilian protection and counterterrorism. 
Source: WE'LL BE THERE A WHILE 


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Transparency in our government is in and of itself a worthy and attainable goal Merc,and that too is a representative reality...or at least it should be.
Mike, agreed and "should be" is the correct representation in this instance. Self serving disclosure is a transparency better called a facade. When and if, the transparency isn't political party specific I'll see it as not serving an agenda when it occurs. Hasn't been one that falls under that stipulation.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 12:47:18 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Since NObama apparently thinks it's okay for him to release some of former President Bush's SECRET documents hopefully the U.S. Supreme Court will think it's okay to demand that NObama release some of his SECRET documents...like the vault copy of his Hawaiian Birth Certificate, his passports, his college applications and student loan documents, and his pre-Illinois State Senator employement and income-tax records.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!    
Still beating this dead horse Racer,it had no resonance with the voters prior to the election.....it has less now.But you keep rolling that rock up the hill....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 1:13:09 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The Iraq withdrawal is on schedule as Obama said during his campaign. 
False, it's already been extended beyond his campaign rhetoric of not approving any more expenditure beyond the last Senate vote approving funding through May 2009.

He latest treatise on the subject extends the war a minimum of 15 months though August 2010. Good news for the locals - they have another year to kill US soldiers for the benefit of protecting 'big oil' interests in the region.

It also makes a representation of permanent US occupation. Oh yeah, he's using terms oddly similar to those used during Vietnam. Back then it was 'military advisers'. Is that lesson still taught in schools?

The Administration now wants to call them things like 'trainers' and 'civilian protectors'. Our soldiers, our money, going to protect non-US civilians. That's the platform President Obama ran on? Not by my memory. Yours?  
quote:

The administration now considers Aug. 31, 2010, the end date for Iraq war operations. That timetable is slower than Obama had promised voters, but still hastens the U.S. exit. Even with the drawdown, a sizable U.S. force of 35,000 to 50,000 U.S. troops will stay in Iraq under a new mission of training, civilian protection and counterterrorism. 
Source: WE'LL BE THERE A WHILE 





From your link:



From the Jan. 20 start of his presidency to his deadline for ending the combat mission, Obama has settled on a 19-month withdrawal. He had promised the faster pace of 16 months during his campaign but also said he would confer with military commanders on a responsible exit.Officials said Thursday that the timetable Obama ultimately selected was the recommendation of all the key principals — including Gates and Mullen. The timeline was settled on as the one that would best manage security risks without jeopardizing the gains of recent months.


Somehow I don't think that a 3 month delay qualifies as a broken campaign promise.

Especially since Bush never agreed to any withdrawal of troops until Maliki endorsed Obama's campaign proposal.

I posted links on this just yesterday, I can repeat them here if you like.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 1:27:09 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

From the Jan. 20 start of his presidency to his deadline for ending the combat mission, Obama has settled on a 19-month withdrawal.

 
See there - you went from Candidate Obama to President Obama - I can understand your confusion; many share it. Sure - as of January AFTER the votes are counted, the deadline expands. It's all about the funding. We're now insured another 15 months from the prior Administration's financial commitment. This Administration has protracted it out another year for most of the soldiers there, and indefinitely for some of them.

Care to try and reconcile the candidate from the President regarding the ongoing, never-ending part of the reference?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 2:03:08 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

From the Jan. 20 start of his presidency to his deadline for ending the combat mission, Obama has settled on a 19-month withdrawal.

 
See there - you went from Candidate Obama to President Obama - I can understand your confusion; many share it. Sure - as of January AFTER the votes are counted, the deadline expands. It's all about the funding. We're now insured another 15 months from the prior Administration's financial commitment. This Administration has protracted it out another year for most of the soldiers there, and indefinitely for some of them.

Care to try and reconcile the candidate from the President regarding the ongoing, never-ending part of the reference?


I would like to reconcile it if I had any idea what you were talking about.

Your link says Obama promised the withdrawal in 16 months, my recollection, without looking it up, was 18 months.

The plan now is 19 months.

Are you seriously trying to suggest the timetable started when he made the promise during the campaign?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 4:21:20 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Care to try and reconcile the candidate from the President regarding the ongoing, never-ending part of the reference?


quote:

I would like to reconcile it if I had any idea what you were talking about.


Fair enough, this; "Obama also said that between 35,000 and 50,000 troops will initially remain there to help train Iraqi forces and undertake counter-terrorism missions." has no withdraw deadline.

Same source: WE'LL BE THERE A WHILE 

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 4:33:27 PM   
Coldwarrior57


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Kdsub, Lincoln didn't suspend Habeus Corpus because of the Confederacy.  He suspended it because of Union sympathizers, otherwise known as "Copperheads."  Union generals wanted to hang them without the fuss of jury trials.  In the same vein, the Bush administration was worried about people inside the U.S. working with these fanatical pricks.  I wonder why they might worry about that....hmmm.   John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadhan (the little punk turned bearded Islamist that makes videos for these assholes.).  You know people like that, or terrorist cells operating in the U.S. 
thats a ROUGH line to walk!
I can see both sides there.
Perhaps it was a good mental exercise by W to have that out there.
Just like any other tool, better to have it and NOT need it then need it and not have it.
still kinda spookie,
but whats more worry some is team barries notion to let it out.
I know we have plans to go to war with EVERY nation on the face of the planet, but should it be made public, some how it just smacks of politics, and shitty politics.

_____________________________

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-- George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 5:57:13 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The treatment of the prisoners?  Have you thought about how we will not be able to claim torture when our own troops are subjected to waterboarding and sleep deprivation?



     Jesus-holy-fucking-Christ RML!  You've achieved a new personal best in completely ignorant statements.  Do you have any idea how Americans are treated when captured?

     Sleep deprivation and waterboarding....   Un-fucking-believable.  There is probably a way to tell you just how stupid your post is, without hearing from XI, but I have no idea what that might be right at the moment.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 6:29:39 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:


    Jesus-holy-fucking-Christ RML!  You've achieved a new personal best in completely ignorant statements.  Do you have any idea how Americans are treated when captured?

    Sleep deprivation and waterboarding....   Un-fucking-believable.  There is probably a way to tell you just how stupid your post is, without hearing from XI, but I have no idea what that might be right at the moment.


I personally take little ethical comfort for being able to say "My way of life is better than yours because I torture my prisoners less than you torture yours. I would much prefer to be able to say my way of life is better than yours because you torture your prisoner and I do not".

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: # # Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 6:33:13 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57
but whats more worry some is team barries notion to let it out.
I know we have plans to go to war with EVERY nation on the face of the planet, but should it be made public, some how it just smacks of politics, and shitty politics.


I find it disturbing that you are less bothered by an act than you are by the fact that someone who spoke of it. I don't care if the president involved was Democrat, Republican, Independent or what have you. I think that what was done should be brought to light. That is not a weakness. It's a strength.


(in reply to Coldwarrior57)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama releases secret Bush anti-terror memos - 3/3/2009 7:29:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I think the reason is very simple and straightforward...Obama knows we have a problem with credibility in the rest of the world. He wants a clean break between his policy and Bush's. He wants the world to know he is not going to hide any past transgressions. That he will be honest and upfront in what he says.

I think it is the right move.

Butch

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 60
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