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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 9:52:32 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I agree that I often feel prickled with Merc and Beths post in that I get the impression they are somehow trying to convey a message of "supreme state of slavery." But since I know they aren't anything like a supreme state of slavery, it's really not a big deal.


LA,
Thanks - That covers it.
No "dogma" except "Merc & beth Dogma"; not seeking endorsement, agreement, or verification of correctness. In many ways, just like catholic Dogma, which was a great movie, if you attended catholic school for 16 years as I did. However, unlike that movie neither of us represents a "supreme being" nor "supreme state". It's more a Billy Joel representation of "just the way we are". We wonder if it would be better to just shut up about it.

Any implied "absolute-ness" in what we post is in the mind of the reader. As is any perceived "weakness" or "failure" if you or your relationship is different. As beth posted, "how boring it would be if we were ALL the same."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 12:48:23 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
this slave disagreed and still does, wholeheartedly, that feeling annoyance(or any other emotion) toward your partner in your relationship equates being "human" and the absence of such thoughts or emotions is a "myth".


lol - so... having any emotion doesn't equate to being "HUMAN".
mmmmmmmm and here I thought one of things that was a common understood fact of life is that living, thinking, feeling human beings have emotions. That having emotions is one of the things that separate us from a THING! Our capacity of thought and depth of feeling is what separates us from lesser capable mammals like a DOG.

To be Human we FEEL (um that's emotions) and we think (um that's thoughts). The nice thing about being human, is our emotions are much more complex and involved than a Dog. We also have an ability to express these thoughts and feelings into behaviors, what behaviors are expressed, well that is another story all together. Just because we have a feeling or thought doesn't mean it will result into a specific behavior.

So, according to you, feeling annoyance (or any other emotion) "like love, affection, sadness, joy, appreciation" and directing these emotions "towards" (which indicates an expressed behavior) their partner in their relationship doesn't equate to the person as being "HUMAN"

mmmmmmmmmmmm that is out right silly!

It is our very ability to have Emotions and Thoughts and to demonstrate Behaviors that are motivated by these feelings and thoughts that Make Us "HUMAN". We are more than just a "Thing", we are more than just "Bones, Flesh and Blood".

Being able to "direct" these Thoughts and Feelings "towards" our partner in our relationship very much reflects that we are Humans and that humans "Interact" with one another and express these thoughts and feelings with one another.

For the life of me, I can't understand why a person would disagree that a love, sadness, joy, anger, excitement, insecurity, pleasure towards your partner would not equate a person to being Human. But, maybe your right... maybe it is a reflection that the person that has emotions (what ever theyare) is a "LIVING HUMAN" and that to not have them must makes the person them a "DEAD HUMAN" mmmmmmmm can't say that I have seen any walking DEAD HUMANS of late.... but, guess that doesn't mean they don't exist, kind of like purple elephants! So if a person wishes to believe in the Myth of a "Walking DEAD Humans" or purple elephants that is there choice... I just find it highly amusing!


_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 1:02:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I think the actual argument is more:

"Not having a certain emotion does not make a person inhuman."

To let this argument leak into other areas such as "Having this emotion makes you human" or "Emotions are what makes an entity human" would be overstepping.

While it might be worth looking at- if an entity has no emotions, is it human? Do babies have emotions or are we just projecting them? What is the exact range of emotions for someone to be human or not?



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 1:13:12 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

so... having any emotion doesn't equate to being "HUMAN".

A very unique interpretation of someone saying that no action or behavior of a person that you love can cause annoyance. Perhaps none in your circle have experience that unqualified emotional commitment. I can see why you'd argue it couldn't exist.

quote:

I just find it highly amusing!


And those that don't consider a different viewpoint I find a joke.

Are you seeking validation?

Your world is yours. If you feel that our relationship excludes emotion and enthusiasm it's your problem. If you and yours need to rationalize or project superiority that's a wonderful post and I hope it accomplished that goal for all of you. At least I hope it stops your obvious feelings of inferiority. For if not, why not the just accept the differences? I thought "because I said so" wasn't a valid position? Or is it just not a valid position if facts and reference contradict you?

Anytime you are in LA, feel free to visit us "DEAD HUMANS".

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 1:56:57 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think the actual argument is more:

"Not having a certain emotion does not make a person inhuman."

To let this argument leak into other areas such as "Having this emotion makes you human" or "Emotions are what makes an entity human" would be overstepping.

While it might be worth looking at- if an entity has no emotions, is it human? Do babies have emotions or are we just projecting them? What is the exact range of emotions for someone to be human or not?




The whole concept of when emotions develop is indeed interesting. I agree that it is a valid question to consider do babies have emotions in the first place. I suspect with your education and/or with you reading of the whole concept of human behaviors and development, you understand that it is an important question with in science. If babies don't have emotions, then the development of these emotions is even more important in studing human behaviors. It might be that we as humans have the Capacity to have them (whatever them happens to be) and it is this capacity/potential of development that makes us human.

If a person wasn't raised with the interactions with other humans. Would emotions develop? or is it just that our ability to express these emotions fail to develop to the level we are able to with the interactions with other humans. I have yet to meet or learn of a human being that doesn't have emotions. I am not stating that one should have set group of emotions.. but we do as humans have the capacity/potential to have emotions and do express emotions that are Behaviors. What emotional Behaviors we expressed and what we don't is largely dependent on our developement as human beings as well as the given situation we find ourself in. So in my opinion having emotions is a part of being human and so is the development of these emotions, which will be different from human to human. And yes.. Not having Emotions or the Capacity to develop emotions negates an entities ability to be Human, We call that a THING! Emotions is only one block of being human that seperates us from a thing. It is further steps of understanding of Humans that seperates us from other "living beings" like a Dog! Like capacity/potential of THOUGHT!

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 1:58:41 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

so... having any emotion doesn't equate to being "HUMAN".

A very unique interpretation of someone saying that no action or behavior of a person that you love can cause annoyance. Perhaps none in your circle have experience that unqualified emotional commitment. I can see why you'd argue it couldn't exist.

quote:

I just find it highly amusing!


And those that don't consider a different viewpoint I find a joke.

Are you seeking validation?

Your world is yours. If you feel that our relationship excludes emotion and enthusiasm it's your problem. If you and yours need to rationalize or project superiority that's a wonderful post and I hope it accomplished that goal for all of you. At least I hope it stops your obvious feelings of inferiority. For if not, why not the just accept the differences? I thought "because I said so" wasn't a valid position? Or is it just not a valid position if facts and reference contradict you?

Anytime you are in LA, feel free to visit us "DEAD HUMANS".


LOL alittle defensive are you not...

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Knight of Mists

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 2:13:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

alittle defensive are you not


Only of beth. Of your opinion? It's as valid as any but, like you, not pertinent to my life.

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/25/2006 2:58:11 PM   
veronicaofML


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neither of us represents a "supreme being"
-----------

awww shitski

here i was about to nominate You AND Warren for Saint hood.
damn
are Ya SURE Ya ain't?????

hell the 3 of yas have been nothing BUT nice on here..........



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RE: Myths of submission - 1/26/2006 3:36:18 AM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

but you didn't stop there--you associated your annoyance at doing what pleases your Lord with being "human"
quote:

...there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all.


this slave disagreed and still does, wholeheartedly, that feeling annoyance(or any other emotion) toward your partner in your relationship equates being "human" and the absence of such thoughts or emotions is a "myth". to make the statement that a slave feels "annoyance" at times and thinks "what about what I want" is universally human and the absence of such thoughts or feelings is a "myth" is just as false as the "myth" or "romantic notion" you are trying to discount.



Well, I thought the cliche' "I am human" or "I am only human" was widely understood in the English language to indicate imperfection and felt no need to break down that one sentence into its smallest details. My mistake.

As for what our relationships do or do not have in common, I don't think we know each other well enough to make such absolute statements. After all, our interaction is only on-line and extremely limited.

Best wishes to you and Merc.

Knight's kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/26/2006 5:00:49 PM   
kyraofMists


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I considered not writing this post, but then my Lord asked me what was the point of writing it and what would I gain from it. Interacting with others who challenge my own beliefs and opinions causes me to gain a deeper understanding of them. So this post is just a reflection of thoughts that I had from this thread and is an intellectual exercise for me.

quote:


this slave believes emotions sow either harmony or dischord. It is this slave's belief that emotions can be manipulated and sometimes eliminated, by ones-self or by others we allow.


I have been thinking about this statement and I have been trying to understand the concept. I have been trying to understand how an emotion can do something. My understanding of emotions is that they are passive. Once you take an emotion and translate it into action then that becomes behavior. It may be behavior based off your emotions, but it is still behavior. I am wondering if this is what was meant when using the word “sow”; that emotions can trigger behaviors that lead to either harmony or discord within ourselves or our relationships? What about the emotions that are not expressed, can they actually do anything?

There is the opinion that emotions automatically lead to specific behaviors, but I believe you can choose to behave in a manner that does not reflect your current emotions or that constructively deals with your emotions. I can be annoyed, but choose to let the emotion go and to behave in a way that indicates happiness, so my emotion of annoyance will not trigger anything since I am not expressing it. I can also be annoyed and then choose to express that emotion in a constructive way that deepens the connection between me and another person and strengthens the relationship. I can be annoyed and choose to express that emotion in a way that weakens or destroys the relationship. It is the same emotion, but different outcomes based on the choice of behaviors.

So is it the emotion or the way the emotion is expressed that is the determining factor of whether there will be harmony or discord? I could take any emotion and based on the behavior that I choose to express that emotion (and when I choose to express it) create harmony or discord, even the emotion of happiness. In fact I do use the expression of happiness to create discord; have you ever noticed how much more frustrated someone will get when they are ranting at you and you just smile and are cheerful? Right off the top of my head I can think of a couple other examples where expressing happiness might cause discord rather than harmony:

Funeral/wake
Jury duty
When a loved one is in crisis and needs your help to cope

Does this mean that a person shouldn’t feel happiness since it can sometimes lead to discord? I do not think that it is the emotion that is causing the issue but rather the choice of behavior. I focus on choosing my behaviors that will create the outcome that I desire.

I do agree that emotions can be changed. Having positive constructive behaviors and thoughts have changed my emotions more times than I can count. I would not presume to think that I could eliminate them, that there would never be any circumstance in my entire existence that would cause me to feel a particular emotion. That speaks of an absolute that I just don’t think can be applied to human behavior, thoughts or emotions. To say I will never or I will always do, think or feel something would not be realistic; it would not take into account all that can change in a person’s lifetime. I have often found that just when I say never or always, circumstances and life changes my perspective just enough to prove me wrong.


Knight's kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/26/2006 5:11:44 PM   
mnottertail


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Emotions are powerful chemicals, not passive at all........that's my estimation............

Lick my ass bitch.......

Why does that piss you off? We are so afar apart and you are hooked up and set, what possible difference could that make?

But...............it is rude, you have an image.......

where does the image come from?
Certainly (at least in this case) you must agree that it is nothing tangible, unless you consider rude something that you can grasp like......oh; a head of lettuce.........perhaps a feeling? what is feeling if not emotion?

I could go on and on till you puke on your shoes, but my bottom line would be; that I do not agree that emotions are passive; rather; they control our life essentially.......

you may disagree, in which case this whole house comes tumbling down.......

End of joke...

Emotionally,
Ron

P.S. but the basis in my experience of mind phucks........

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 1:06:23 AM   
ExistentialSteel


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Kyra, not that you need me or anyone else (except maybe Knight, smile) to tell you, but you shared some thought provoking, well written posts here. Thanks for taking the effort to share with the board.

In following up on what you said about the moods setting the tone for your behavior, let me tell you something that happens with me. I find mornings at work that I am prone to be judgmental and demanding with others, while later in the day, basically nothing bothers me. After 12, I could shake off the most distressing news or actions by others and make everyone, including myself laugh about things. So what happens with me?

I think that I allow my moody mornings to dictate my behavior. The same type of events happen throughout the day is my bet, but my better moods later in the day cause me to react differently and better. Socially, if I am feeling confident and friendly, I am a much better person to be around. If I am in a situation where I feel uncomfortable, I tend to become quiet and unable to see humor and so on. (Ha, maybe that is why a drink at a party is such a good idea. It is the instant mood enhancer.)

One way I use this knowledge of my moods beneficially is through visualization and suggestion, as I mentioned on another thread. Before I have to do things that I can predict will make me feel uncomfortable such as a party with people I barely know, I will visualize an object and tell myself that I will be confident and friendly. Visualizing an object creates that later in the day, relaxed mood, for me and allows me to suggest to myself to feel and act a certain way.


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For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 1:58:34 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

You hear it all the time, but I have to say that it doesn’t always make me happy to do what he wants. In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail.

Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there?


Well, I've been doing this for a very long time and it's been my experience, that if one can 'think' about it, it's probably happening somewhere with someone. For me, yes, it 'always' makes me happy to do what he wants. It's just unconditional. I didn't jump into a relationship with him. I spent hours, months, years with him before becoming owned by him. I 'knew' him, what he would never ask of me, and what he would and I agreed as he agreed to own me. Is it inconvenient to stop whatever I'm doing and go to him as he requires? No, how could it be when that's the reason I am here? He's not a stupid man. He does not make frivilous or trivial requests and I know this about him. I can 'count' on him to be wise in his decisions, to do what is right for himself and by extension me. I trust him, so when he calls, I am compelled to do as he has asked, regardless of what they may be, regardless of what I may be doing. If he has sent me to the kitchen to make dinner and I'm in the middle of frying chicken or something, he 'knows' what he's told me to do, he's aware I'm cooking for him, so if he calls while I'm in the middle of that to attend to something else, the burner is turned off and I go to him to do it because there is a 'reason' he's called for me. I don't question his reason. I don't resent it or get annoyed by it.

We are both flawed and we both know it, but the one thing I never am is resentful, agitated, frustrated or disappointed when my Master asks something, anything of me. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm thrilled to be of service, doing what I do, living 'life' in the way I choose to live, day to day and moment to moment, but I made damn sure that Himself was the one I wanted to do 'for' first.

Each of us must, by necessity, make the choices which work best for us. It doesn't make anyone less submissive or less of anything to make different choices or to feel different ways. I can no more help NOT feeling frustrated or annoyed than someone else can help if they DO feel that way.

But a myth? No. It's not a myth because there are people who are living it, and that's all the proof you need that it's real.

I would be hard pressed to come up with 'anything' that is a myth as it pertains to living in this diverse, convoluted world. But, as I've said before, I'm not all that creative. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 3:22:53 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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Kyra,

Good post. You and your Master seem to raise a lot of important questions to contemplate around here.

What I am discovering, (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one) is, D/s relationships that are healthy and work are not all that differant from vanilla relationships that are healthy and work.

I think sometimes we who practice WIIWD feel somehow better, stronger, faster than our vanilla counterparts. Sometimes I think that we feel that by virture of the fact that we are involved in D/s SM B&D makes us somehow higher up the food chain. To some degree, the shape of the relationship, be it vanilla or D/s, has to incorporate many of the same qualities in order to be fulfilling to both parties.

With that said, let me explain a little further. I don't think because I call him Sir or that he owns me, means that we don't have to fulfill the natural requirements of good, healthy relationships. Regardless of our particular bend, good communication is still the real key. I have learned, as I suspect you have as well, that there are things that I'm not bursting with joy to do for him. On the flip side, I am sure if I asked Sir, there are things that he does for me that he'd probably rather not as well. That's the nature of relationships, regardless of whether you practice some form of BDSM within it or not.

There are a few things that he wants from me that I have the audacity to bitch about directly to him. I know, I know...bad subby ~smirk~. That doesn't mean that I get my way. And I have learned through his training to offer up my 'concerns' (read 'bitches') in a constructive manner. How is this differant from a healthy vanilla relationship? From where I sit it's not.

A previous poster mentioned what happens when romantic fantasy collides with harsh reality. I loved that, and it made me think of all of the preconcieved notions I picked up while early on while reading "Castle Realm". While Lord Colm and jade had a certain uber romantic quality to their characterization of their relationship, I'm betting that there were times when she wanted to tell him to screw when he wanted something too. Point is, we all have these feelings from time to time. Those of us who are in healthy relationships manage to bring these feelings out into the open with our partners and figure out a way to do what is requested and not resent it.

I gave up the ghost on "real sub" years ago. In my community, I want to be taken seriously as a smart, funny, compassionate woman who plays on the bottom. In my relationship, I just want to be the woman he wakes up thinking about and who's ass he wants to beat ~grin~

Thanks again for posing the question, kyra.

Kassie

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 10:01:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


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This slave is trying real hard to help you out, but just as she dozen’t know how to explain to someone how it is possible to put down a beloved crack-pipe one day forever without benefit of rehab, pills, death, incarceration, intervention or conventional therapy—but hey, this slave still knows for a fact it CAN be done----this slave will do her best to explain to you how it is that a particular emotion can be absent from one’s experience.

It is this slave’s understanding that emotions are not universally passive in each individuals experience and haven’t been since before the origin of the concept of good vs. evil or karma. Some spiritual folk believe that emotions are the physical representation of spiritual entities and we can accept and feed them energy or banish them.

quote:

I am wondering if this is what was meant when using the word “sow”; that emotions can trigger behaviors that lead to either harmony or discord within ourselves or our relationships?


It means that and a little bit extra: You reap what your emotions sow. You also reap what your behaviors that are triggered by those emotions sow. Certain emotions are not only specifically designed to trigger behavior but also show up in a measurable physiological response—expressed verbally, physically, otherwise or not expressed consciously at all. Some folks pick up on it without you having to utter a sound or behave in a certain manner and certain animals definitely do, within range of course.

quote:

What about the emotions that are not expressed, can they actually do anything?


Yes, they can make you physically ill AND suck the joy out of your life,…or in the case of certain animals, eliminating the emotion of fear when dealing with them, not just thoughts or displays of fear, is crucial to working with them.

quote:

I believe you can choose to behave in a manner that does not reflect your current emotions or that constructively deals with your emotions. I can be annoyed, but choose to let the emotion go and to behave in a way that indicates happiness, so my emotion of annoyance will not trigger anything since I am not expressing it. I can also be annoyed and then choose to express that emotion in a constructive way that deepens the connection between me and another person and strengthens the relationship. I can be annoyed and choose to express that emotion in a way that weakens or destroys the relationship. It is the same emotion, but different outcomes based on the choice of behaviors.


It is this slave’s opinion that another alternative exists-- that it is possible to train to not even become annoyed to begin with instead of tediously strategizing how to deal with becoming annoyed from time to time on an ongoing basis. Maybe not everyone can, but this slave knows of one for sure.

quote:

So is it the emotion or the way the emotion is expressed that is the determining factor of whether there will be harmony or discord?


It can be either or both. It has been this slave’s experience that you can “express” however you want, it is your underlying emotion, the one that you are actually feeling to wards your significant other, that will set the stage for how you function in that relationship. Some folks don’t feel love or affection for their partner, or jealousy, or contempt.

For example: Master has complete authority. This slave is comfortable with that and feels very positive emotions with regards to that relationship dynamic. The responses “I don’t feel like it” and “what about what I want” or emotions of jealousy or annoyance have no place in that construct, logically or emotionally. Once again, just because this slave is “human” or imperfect, doesn’t mean she gets annoyed at Master or His authority.

quote:

I could take any emotion and based on the behavior that I choose to express that emotion (and when I choose to express it) create harmony or discord, even the emotion of happiness. In fact I do use the expression of happiness to create discord;


This slave sees that as merely your manipulation of an expression of happiness, like an actress tries to convince us of emotions she isn’t really feeling, but your intent is to create dis-chord and to the receptive, sensitive or intelligent, they might just be amused at your insincerity and not play into your scheme to create dis-chord by feigning happiness and harmony-- in the case of the actress, she might fail at her attempts and not get the job, because she just wasn’t “believable”.

quote:

have you ever noticed how much more frustrated someone will get when they are ranting at you and you just smile and are cheerful?


No. More often than not, it has been this slave’s experience that it calms them down and helps them to discuss something rationally-but this slave gets no thrill from trying to frustrate further already agitated folk, so maybe it isn’t just this slave’s smile and cheerfulness, but the sincerity of her expressions that makes the difference.

quote:

I focus on choosing my behaviors that will create the outcome that I desire.


This slave focuses on choosing behaviors that will create the outcome Master desires. this slave’s service is based on complete surrender to His will and His desires. As far as outcome—this slave strives to focus on obeying and pleasing Master--acting out specifically designed behaviors to effect a particular outcome while attempting to cover up emotions would not please Him.

quote:

I do agree that emotions can be changed. Having positive constructive behaviors and thoughts have changed my emotions more times than I can count. I would not presume to think that I could eliminate them, that there would never be any circumstance in my entire existence that would cause me to feel a particular emotion.


The pharmaceutical industry has made BILLIONS hedging the bet you’ll take ANY risk not to FEEL a particular emotion. No work on your part involved, all you need is a glass of water and a participating physician. For some, it works, for others temporarily, and for still others, it doesn’t. This slave has had permanent success doing it sans pharmaceutical help—natural & holistic remedies, repetitive desensitizing experiences, reprogramming exercises, hypnosis, meditation, spiritual journeys and focus.

quote:

That speaks of an absolute that I just don’t think can be applied to human behavior, thoughts or emotions.


Maybe it can’t be applied to everyone, maybe it isn't possible for you, with the belief structure you have accepted. Maybe this slave is the only person posting here that has effectively eliminated emotions such as jealousy or annoyance in an intimate relationship…but this slave doubts it.

quote:

To say I will never or I will always do, think or feel something would not be realistic;


well, then that opens you up to actually experiencing what this slave has been talking about, since you never say never, you might actually get to a point where you don't feel annoyed at your Lord, regardless of how hard He tries to annoy you~For this slave, there are most definitely things this slave will never do and also things this slave will most certainly think or feel, core values and beliefs that have been proved to this slave without a shadow of a doubt, the most glaring examples are against TOS to discuss.

This slave hopes this has helped you to understand her previous posts.

Edited by Merc to add:
My beloved beth, if the readers of this only knew how you lost a night's sleep trying your best to express your feelings about the manner in which we live. As I said this morning, sometimes written words are the worst method of communication. As long as dictionaries have multiple meanings for most words conveying an understanding of "exactly" what you mean is impossible. But a worthy attempt.

I still say, an infinite number of blind people taking an infinite amount of time will never be able to "visualize" an accurate picture of an elephant, they'll never know if it's purple or gray, yet they will all be "right".

you're so cute! Now go take a nap, knowing you tried your best.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/27/2006 10:22:05 AM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 3:04:31 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
beth,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions. My never say never approach to life will actually prevent me from saying that I will never experience a particular emotion. I sincerely appreciate the time that you spent on this thread.

kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Myths of submission - 1/27/2006 4:57:18 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

What I am discovering, (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one) is, D/s relationships that are healthy and work are not all that differant from vanilla relationships that are healthy and work.


I'm certainly not going to flame you, but would like to point out what is often missed in this conception which is the entire essence of a D/s relationship. The only things which a vanilla relationship has in common with a D/s relationship are part of everyone's life. Shopping, cooking, cleaning, paying bills, etc. Things with which, regardless of where you are or how you live, you must contend.

There is a simple, but I think beautiful, example of the difference, if you'll indulge me for just a moment.

Both relationships are healthy and work. In this scenario, both the submissive and the spouse have taken out a chicken for dinner. Both are reading the same book with just a few pages until it's finished and they find out 'Who Done It."

Vanilla Partner A - Hey hon, that new French bistro opened up. Wanna get all dolled up and go out to dinner?

Vanilla Partner B - Well, I don't know. I took a chicken out for dinner already.

Vanilla Partner A - Aw, come on. It'll be fun. The chicken can wait till tomorrow can't it?

Vanilla Partner B - Yeah, ok. Sounds good. Just let me finish this book and I'll go get dressed.

Vanilla Partner A - Great!

Vanilla Partner B finishes the chapter, gets dressed and they have a nice evening.

Sounds like a good relationship. They communicate, compromise. Have fun with one another. All good.

Now to the D/s relationship.

Master - Did you take the chicken out for dinner like I told you?

Submissive - Yes, Master, it's all defrosted in the fridge.

Master - Well, put it away, we're going out to dinner.

Submissive - Yes, Sir.

Master - Get dressed in something nice, that black dress with the silver buttons will do. We're leaving in 45 mins.

Submissive - Yes, Master.

Master - And put on that silver collar I had made for you. You always look so beautiful when you wear it for me.

Submissive - ::smiling:: Yes, Sir.

Submissive puts down her book, gets dressed and they have a wonderful evening.


In the vanilla relationship, there was a question on whether or not the couple would go out to dinner, when they would go and there was no clearly defined line in whose decision would ultimately prevail if they disagreed.

In the D/s relationship, there was no question they were going, the time was set, and while the submissive may not have known the final destination, she would be appropriately dressed for the French Bistro with the collar a symbol only the two of them would recognize.

Like I said, simple and just my idea because, truthfully, I've 'never' been in a healthy, intimate vanilla relationship. I do see an obvious difference here, and, of course, based such a healthy D/s relationship on a conversation that would have been typical in the home of Himself.

Celeste









_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Myths of submission - 1/28/2006 6:51:57 AM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline
Beth said:
quote:

You reap what your emotions sow. You also reap what your behaviors that are triggered by those emotions sow. Certain emotions are not only specifically designed to trigger behavior but also show up in a measurable physiological response—expressed verbally, physically, otherwise or not expressed consciously at all.


That's seems to be true, Beth. Thanks.

Words, neuro linguistic programming, visualizations - which can include positive thinking, prayer, ritual, magical spells, Stanislovsky's method acting, on and on. (Too tired to think.)

Anyway, the root is how the mental, subconcious emotional states can and do create - not only attitude and belief reinforcement, but (I do believe this. Its tough to do, but maybe because I worry too much!) create future experience, even outcome of events.

Aggrhh. Too deep!


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 78
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